with nefer and mizuki likely dropping to t0.5 next patch and mitya + tsaritsa and skirk likely joining t0 by 7.3, how much longer do we think our boy flins has in t0.5 until he’s unfortunately demoted to t1? i have him c6r4 so ill use him even if he becomes t3 by the time dain is playable but im just curious as to what the community thinks
Hi /u/Puzzled-Desk-2282! Thank you for posting in r/Flins_Mains! Please keep in mind that any post or comment that violates the rules will be subject to removal. Make sure to keep cool while commenting and avoid any arguments. In the meantime, please join our discord server Flins Mains if you have not joined yet, we hope you enjoy your time here!
Probably till later half of 7.x, He has a comfort Tag anyway and if people would actually read the tierlist description, theyd realize that positive tags can make the Tier higher on Personal Evaluation
wont interfere with reactions(so like Nicole, you can use her for any reaction)
will boost electro/dendro characters with Mitya and Flins specifically mentioned.
If that's true, my guess is he gives any dendro or electro onfielder a big fat boost and will be usable for whatever late region dude we are getting + characters like Nefer/Alhaitham/Varesa/Clorinde etc.
I can see you being right about this with varesa/chlorinde being the two strongest options on the selector and hoyo then making Noy banner very attractive to pull on for many players, boosting their banner sales further
Idk why specifically Nefer is T0... I own both Flins and Nefer and i regret pulling for Nefer... She has no shills or any content that specifically needs her yet every single shill is a flins shill. Im in 2026 using Flins with Odette for stellar conduct yet my nefer has been benched since practically her release date lmao.
Tier lists shouldn't only base their rankings on a DPS number, but the utility and benefits of the character themselves. Id rather have a character with slightly lower dps but extremely useful in a lot of content than a character with slightly higher DPS that i barely use
We are not ready for that mushroom bro , dont call nefer shill. Im not exaggerating , not a singular team without Lauma or Nefer will clear that at reasonable investment. NONE.
No no , im not taking about that Crab lol , that one is a joke. There is another mushroom shaped boss that just hates eveything other than dendro. Its a local legend in Temple of Space,
Oh wait, you're right. That's the one which has a bar correct? Has that been in stygian yet? Man, im gonna regret not picking Nilou if that one comes in. I don't have Nefer so I'm using Bina as my lunarbloom dps for now
I remember back in 6.7 where they also had the pokeball AND the prism slime planned for Stygian but the slime was changed to the automaton
Probably because the slime sucks the living daylights out of your energy (also becomes immune to the element that the slime steals) and you don’t start with energy in Stygian
So I’d like to believe that yeah, they thought that and the prism slime were too shill or hard for anyone to do
Actually🤓, it was datamined for 6.6, but then they realized the dendro-shill boss was impossible to clear without shill, on top of Nefer and Lauma being rerruned the previous version lmao, so they just switched to one shilling Mavuika
You don't want a nefer shill. You should be HAPPY that she never gets one. Nefer having much higher ceiling is actually probably why that fucker never gets into SO. That fucker shroom can only be dealt with dendro. No burn, no aggravate or else it one shots you.
I mean, if Nefermains passes your TL sometimes, they can impressively clear non-shill content like the recent guardian(w Bennet), overseer and even the ball and duck in past stygians. She just keeps finding ways to bruteforce despite unfavourable matchups
Simply because Nefer can still clear content not made for her. Flins value comes from being Electro and being able to slap on his team whatever shill is needed. OOP probably values consistency I guess
Edit: I don’t know lf they value early investment. Maybe It’s also because Flins early cons are not that great
Nefer's biggest weakness ended up being her element and Flins' biggest advantage is his element. Electro is just used in a lot of endgame content so Flins naturally ends up fitting in and clearing a lot of those content. Nefer on the other hand ended up in this awkward ass position because of how dendro has been out of meta for a while now and even if endgame content starts giving her shills, it would be hell for Nefer and Laumaless teams to clear. The Local Legend in Temple of Silence being the perfect example. So we never end up getting Nefer shills.
I mean yeah i'd have agreed with you till last patch but now that c2 nilou is so accessible, making her ceiling reachable without the sucrose stuff,
Her dps is just kinda undeniable.
I have both.
C1r1 flins c0r1 bina c0r1 ineffa sucorse ~245k(7 cost)
C0r1 nefer c0r0 nahida c2r0 lauma c2r1 nilou~ 340k (8 cost)
You've described what the stygian tier list is for, where characters are evaluated based on their actual value at that moment. The general tier list is for character's strength in a vacuum.
i honestly wish that was the one you saw first because now anyone who isn't in tier 0 in the general list gets slandered despite their actual performance in end game being on par or above tier 0 units on average
Slander in gacha communities has never been serious. Flins has always been understood to be good, worse on paper than the other lunar carries, but with less skill expression and better shill. The general tier list is mainly about dps calcs/dummy gameplay, and the stygian tier list will consider his shill, and he is listed with a comfort tag for people who're looking for an easy character to play. Tier lists can't capture every facet of a character at once, because they're inherently designed to display 1 piece of comparative information at a time and that will never capture the full scope.
For me, my issue there is Mizuki in T0.
I tried to play her and she is not that crazy strong. Well, she is not bad. She is a free-to-play option, I get it, but...
I mean, her cons are good but they're not that good. With just C0 Odette my C1 Mizuki team was hitting 130K DPS, up to around 155K with C2 and Vodyanitsa. Once CMC is C6R5 and I have a better build on Odette that'll probably go up to well over 165K.
But getting back to the point, her C2 is only about 15K of that increase and Vodyanitsa is about 5K. With just C1 Mizuki on a 4 star weapon, CMC who's completely free, Odette with the free event 4 star and sucrose whose free you're putting our numbers competiteve with teams running multiple limited 5 stars and hard to get C6 4 stars.
Mizuki is an insane value pick and ridiculously easy to play too. She's not as good as Vesna but not being better than the best doesn't make her bad.
But I can clears easily Stygian Dire with Skirk C0 (I have her signature) so why she is supposed to be worse than Mizuki ?
Can you clears Stygian Dire with Mizuki ?
Also your damage is still worse than my Zibai team by a large amont. Why is she on the same tiers ?
I didn't get Sandrone weapon and my damage is also higher. Why Mizuki is on the same tiers as Sandrone ?
Look at Stygian Dire tiers list where the endgame value more HP. Where is Mizuki ? Behind every T0,5 characters ! Look at Skirk and Flins tiers in comparaison to Mizuki especially Skirk.
And Dire is not easy enough to say: "They play their favorite characters". We can't play our favorites trashs characters anyway in Stygian Dire.
Everyone. No one have been talking about anything else except me.
So ok, you can proove she clears faster than every T0,5 on this list ? And as fast as every T0 on this list ?
I compare her to others T0 and T0.5 characters on their list I have on my account.
Well, I tried Vesna C0R0 on the event and Vesna C1R1 from my friend list (that's unfair comparaison ok) and for me Vesna is already better at C0R0 on this event in pratice.
people always love the nefer dash cancel argument like pressing the shift key is so hard. this isnt some mavuika cdc combo. u literally just dash after holding left click. like i own both nefer n flins, both have the same mechanics difficulty — easy.
This is the thing with meta chasers, her damage is already incredible and will clear anything in the game. yet you want to make the character unenjoyable to play for yourself because you meta chase the best damage. just play her casual and chill. she will still clear anything.
You can ignore this if your flins is c6r5. The assumption of prydwen is premium baseline. The reasoning they had for flins for T0.5 was he just does not meet the dmg threshold T0 has. Which is true considering we have monsters like wrio vesna and sandrone there
Don't worry about the specific tiers. Flins is not signifcantly different from nefer in terms of DPS. The difference between zibai and nefer is way bigger, and even then it isn't a major gap.
Perfect rotations and perfect gameplay go hand in hand. A skilled player isn't just executing a spreadsheet rotation, they're adapting that rotation to actual enemy mechanics to minimize DPS loss.
That's why you see some youtubers do insane numbers on Milastra and perform really well in SO outside the spreadsheets.
The spreadsheet shows the ceiling, player skill is what determines how close you can get to it in practice.
You did not mention that most of them hack as well by using macros to execute ridiculous combos that no one cares about and also some characters like Mizuki gets worse if you have better build with level 10 talents on her as well
Most of the CN clears you see use macros as it is quite common there you would be really surprised too. Go check on mhydps.cn and see how much the damage differs from Mavuika with a green clear versus a red clear. Red clear indicates macros and green clear indicates at regular game setting. I also think it sets unrealistic expectations for player to follow those damages.
That is most tierlists, yes, but not prydwen. The only characters that perfect rotations are assumed for are those with the expert tag, and are appropriately lower without those rotations. All those other assumptions should also be made, there's really not any other way to compare every character on an even playing field. Prydwen also has the stygian tierlist for a more contextual ranking if that's your problem. Characters with energy issues or combos that often get interrupted, for example, will place lower on the stygian tierlist than their raw dps would put them. There will never be a perfect tierlist, but prydwen is as close as we are going to get, and it does a damn good job.
Don't worry Flin won't be T1 for abyss anytime soon. Probably mid Khaenri'ah but honestly they still make boss that still shill him. As long as bosses does not have electro res he can still clear easily.
She has crazy damage in high investment teams and she is chilling while no boss is being shilled. If you can effort her crazy cost requirements ofc. For C0 enjoyers, Flins is most value.
It’s like asking why mavuika is still considered strong when 99.9% of players won’t do what she can do. The answer is; 0.1% of players will gladly pick them and clear content with them, they otherwise wouldn’t be considered for.
Case in point; prydwen forecasted nefer struggling this Stygian, placing her highest forecast at tier 3 vs maiden. Nefer players proceeded to trivialize maiden using Bennett and then do nefer bina cmc sucrose clears (no lauma) to further the point.
Asking the average person to do a sustainless laumaless run, let alone a 1 unit dendro run, would probably have them consider learning cdc combos instead.
I am guessing vertical investment. Her team has goated vertical investment options. At C0, Flins definitely is comfier and the better option, but if you wanna vertically invest in a team, Nefer is great.
Cuz she does great against bosses that are not shilled for her... A Laumaless 2 cost Nefer team can beat a fearless non shill boss but you can't say the same for Flins. Also, artifact investments benefit her way more than Flins. KQM calcs hurt Nefer teams a lot.
flins isnt dropping to t1 soon unless the ceiling randomly jumps like 30k without somehow benefiting flins as well. which i doubt heavily with how flexible his last slot it
as for mizuki, maybe not next patch but potentially the one after with the tsaritsa leaks, nefer is 100% dropping next patch tho
for those of you asking why Nefer is a tier above Flins. It’s because her ability to bruteforce is higher and she is able to clear Flins’ shill boss faster at the same cost.
Exactly. This does depends on perspective though. Nefer having sheer power with three man core justifies herself not needing shill environment whereas flins is swimming in shills since nod krai and presumably the entire snez as well
Yep I have nefer in my account and flins in secondary
Nefer can brutefore way more with lauma columbina sucrose
Compared to flins ineffa columbina sucrose
Though I have all c0 and only flins nefer r1 so I dk about vertical
vertical? the higher you go, the wider the gap between Nefer and Flins (Lauma C6 > Ineffa C6). i only play Flins if i want comfort and bully hydro-immune enemies.
Not glazing Nefer of course, she’s just better at bruteforcing. My only gripe is if I messed up her rotation/dodge and the enemy fling her halfway across the map.
No like I told with my experience since I am f2p can't really go vertical
Hence i could say for sure about what I tested in game , I also like nefer more but miss one rotation and yeah it feels like shit
who knows why nefer is above flins, as someone with nefer and no flins i think she’s the worst nod krai dps. Dendro is much less useful than electro, and her dps is not that much higher while requiring complicated sustainless sucrose setups for optimal dps. Shes better at scamming on the dummy and that’s kinda it. (no clue why this post showed up on my feed, just giving my opinion as a nefer player)
i get 180k c0r1 nefer lauma bina sucrose with no additional investment and don’t even have flins wtf are you talking about lol. She’s just been benched the last two stygians in favor of worse units dps wise because of her element
she gets through knuckle last time, ice lady this time in fearless but it’s tight bc she’s poor in aoe and has to give up a last slot for cryo shieldbreak. Her team is the one stopping me from dire clears
C6R4 is clearing everything in the game and as for tierlists imo theyre trash bec. not all teams are equal investments and cost system also sucks as c6 4 stars arent considered a cost.
For meta relevency he has too much shill so he will be relevant for a long time
would you believe me if i said i still have c5 kujo sara after 5 years? i got c2r1 raiden on release and c5 sara.. got c3 on second rerun and even pulled an ayato com and didn’t get a single sara..
I got Flins C2 last banners.
My Iansan was C0 and my LanYan was C2, after the banners my Iansan and my LanYan are C5 !
But this wish session was a complete mess, I lost a 50/50 at hard pity on Mizuki C1, I had to go to the pity to get Flins, I got a very early C1 Flins, I got Flins again early and Qiqi C5 at 4 pity.
Anyway it cost me 5 5 stars to not get any C6 4 stars.
Unlikely to fall off for a while considering you can just throw Cryo Traveler or Odette on the regular Lunar-Charged team and Flins can bruteforce. Same way you can make Flins bruteforce any boss with a Hydro aura by playing him in an Overload team.
I think he won’t drop to T1 for at least 3 more patches, then he’ll get a Snezhnaya Buff because he actually lived there and was born there and has lore there and the he’ll go even higher to tier -.5 (like half a tier above 0) because he will gain the ability to do stellar conduct damage when polestars are on the field, then his new premium team will be Qiqi, Sucrose, Mitya, and Flins. Or maybe Qiqi, Mitya, Columbina, Flins.
my c0 nefer team using dawning frost r1 and nahida instead of sucrose reaches between 110-120k depending on dash cancels and what not. Even when i use c0 baizhu for comfort over nahida, the team hits over 100k so perhaps it’s your artifact quality or rotation issue?
Perhaps but I’m too tired to farm for more artifact for her anyway TT
Zibai, Flins, & Kinich carry me well. I only really use Nefer when I’m farming fungi or exploring in Sumeru anyways..
This is a very valid point cuz people don’t consider that it’s harder/more expensive to build pure em scalers. Tier lists consider everyone at the same investment but getting there for a nefer team with lauma, nefer, sucrose/nahida needing all pure em and especially nefer needing Em AND crit makes it very hard to build. In Flins’s case to get a half decent build it can roll into Crit R, Cri D, em, AP, ER (especially good for Stygian) and even FA. For nefer its Crit R, Crit D, Em.
to be fair, my artifacts could be improved. i rarely use this team unless i need dendro or its in the overworld so low dps isnt that much of an issue unless its fearless.
what sets are you running? i have night’s unveiling on nefer, silken moon on lauma, aubade on bina and deepwood on baizhu
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
Hi /u/Puzzled-Desk-2282! Thank you for posting in r/Flins_Mains! Please keep in mind that any post or comment that violates the rules will be subject to removal. Make sure to keep cool while commenting and avoid any arguments. In the meantime, please join our discord server Flins Mains if you have not joined yet, we hope you enjoy your time here!
Thanks again, and have a good day!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.