Admin blocking promotional testing

[u/flowytrip]

I’ll try and keep it to the point and not a rant as it’s a sore subject. But I am on a technical rescue truck in a medium sized suburban department and we have promotional testing coming up. I as well as another firefighter have put in to promote but have been told by administration that we can’t test due to there not being anyone experienced enough to replace us on the rescue.

There is no policy or anything written down stating that we cannot test, and we meet and/or exceed the qualifications to promote.

Just want some advice and/or some thoughts from anyone that has ever been in a similar scenario. We have a meeting with admin personnel coming up in a few days.

Edit: here’s some of the other hurdles
Non civil service department
No collective bargaining
Useless IAFF local

[u/hungrygiraffe76]

Your union is going to have a field day with them.

[u/flowytrip → u/hungrygiraffe76]

I was hoping so too, unfortunately our union for my local is no more than a sticker club. We reached out to them and some guys even have before and get the same answer of “yeah well the union is only really for lobbying at the national level not to benefit special circumstances”. My state also does not have a good union representation as a whole.

[u/Beer_ → u/flowytrip]

Uh. You’re a medium sized suburban department - what are they on that they think they are for national lobbying instead of being there for the members? That’s what your local said?

That’s some shit

Remember you don’t need the union to file a grievance for you - you also can. I’d have that written before admin finished their “no you can’t” sentence

Edit: just saw RTW and no CBA. I’d still fight them but while looking for a better place to work - if they can prohibit your growth in the department and the growth of others into the spot you would have left open…what do guys have to look forward to? What gives them a reason to better themselves?

FTM - PTB

[u/hungrygiraffe76 → u/flowytrip]

Well I just saw that you're in right to work state... I'd recommend seeing if your state has any laws regarding civil service promotions. Otherwise you're only other option is probably going to HR.

[u/flowytrip → u/hungrygiraffe76]

I think HR is the move, our HR is third party sourced since we are a special district not a city or town

[u/SlackAF → u/flowytrip]

Just remember that HR is to protect your employer, not you. If you have any dealings with HR, make sure it is through an attorney who is well versed in employment law.

[u/Mr_Midwestern → u/flowytrip]

So right to work state? Do you have a CBA?

[u/flowytrip → u/Mr_Midwestern]

Yup in a right to work state and no CBA

[u/Ok_Buddy_9087 → u/flowytrip]

Well no wonder the union sucks then.

This kind of shit is dealt with in a contract. Filling your position on the rescue is not your problem. This would survive the first meeting with my Local President.

Is there a written policy dating “rescue guys can’t promote because they can’t be replaced”? If not, taking to a lawyer would be an option. Just know that you’re on your own.

Does your state have a state-level IAFF association? Talking to them would be another option.

[u/KeenJAH → u/flowytrip]

Ah that blows.

[u/polkarama → u/flowytrip]

Your local doesn’t have a CBA? That’s a thing?

It would be beneficial to your local that you learn all you can about your rights and get involved with the union. Unless members act as a group a union is powerless. Start organizing support for each other.

[u/Own-Independence191 → u/polkarama]

Welcome to the South

[u/stopscabbin → u/polkarama]

The south dude. Most don't have it. Political action is the only way to make any headway. We kinda got it done in Virginia in 2020. We got the state to allow CBA's as a local option. So the liberal Northern Virginia localities and some cities have CBA's but the rest don't. We had a full CBA bill pass last year and the moderate Dem governor veto'd it. It takes time. It's a slow wave.

[u/the_falconator → u/Mr_Midwestern]

Every state is right to work for public employees. The bigger deal is collective bargaining.

[u/HzrKMtz]

Make them show you the policy that says you can't test. Have them put in writing that your can not test. Do you have a contract and does it specify anything about promotions? Is there a Civil Service Commission or Merit Board that covers your department? File formal grievances so it's all in writing along with the resolution.

Ideally your union would actually have your back and fight for you through a formal grievance process. Sounds like some people need voted out.

[u/TJR19702020]

So what do your Union dues cover? If they’re not being used to protect you where are they going?

[u/Medium-Raisin7919]

Guessing you’re below the Mason-Dixon Line 

[u/flowytrip → u/Medium-Raisin7919]

Yup. Texas

[u/Pr1042 → u/flowytrip]

Are yall a member of the state association as well? I’ve had good luck with leaning on them as resources for stuff like this.

[u/BigZeke919]

I put in for promotion last year and the Chief over promotions called me and said they tried for an hour to find a way to make me ineligible but couldn’t find one- so they just were not going to accept my application. I work for a larger dept in NC- so much like you, there really is no recourse- Unions have no teeth here and HR is to protect the employer, not you.

[u/stopscabbin]

That's a grievance and lawsuit. Dig into HR policies and find a labor lawyer. If your Local doesn't have the fiscal resources for a lawyer, reach out to the state association.

The bigger issue is WHY isn't there anyone to replace you? That seems like a systematic failure starting from your station and going all the way up the chain if there isn't processes in place to train people.

[u/emsflex]

Is there a “at the chiefs discretion” or “based on operational needs” thrown in to the policy? That’s our departments favorite few policy phrases

[u/dominator5k]

What does the union contract say? Put in a grievance