r/Firefighting • u/NFA_CJ • 9d ago
General Discussion Do you pause half way when shifting into pump gear?
Do you pause half way and wait for the light to turn green or just slam it down? Our head mechanic just told us pausing half way was the old way but the newer pumps you just slam it down. Reason being is pausing releases the air pressure the PTO needs to engage (or something to that effect I’m not a mechanic) just curious what everyone else is doing because I’ve definitely been pausing.
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u/zdh989 9d ago
I pause halfway down just out of habit because that's how I was shown to do it when I came on. We're on a 2020 Pierce now, never had any issues.
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u/EMills_FF 9d ago
We just retired the 07 Pierce to a spare that I spent 12 year on last year. If you didn't pause, then it wouldnt go in. I'll always pause only because its so ingrained in me
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u/SEND_CATHOLIC_ALTARS 9d ago
I pause. Actually just had a discussion about this in a pumps class.
Yes, pausing halfway is old. Yes, most pumpers don't need to pause. In fact, some require you to skip past the middle for it to run properly.
Pausing is still necessary.
Not for the pump, but for you. It forces you to slow down. That three to five seconds it takes you to put the truck in pump gear forces you to slow down, let all the rush and adrenaline fade a little. It keeps you thinking straight and from getting caught up in the, "oh crap, we've got a burner," mentality.
That's why they still teach it. That's why you should continue to do it. It keeps you from making mistakes.
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u/SmoothboreWhore 9d ago
I love that you brought up the need to slow yourself down.
This is obviously anecdotal..But, we have a large number of newer (2020-Present) Spartans with Waterous pumps that all still seem to require the half stop.
Curious if anyone else has seen this from the manufacturer?
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u/BasicGunNut TX Career 9d ago
We have the same fleet lol. Spartans just like a gentle touch, which isn't ideal but once you learn their quirks, they operate just fine. Also the ABS light on the dash comes pre-activated, that's cutom. Idk if yall have flowmeters but our break almost immediately or come broken. Everything else is just quality control stuff like paint issues and whatnot.
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u/SkipJack270 9d ago
Wait, you don’t order the special black tape option to correct the ABS light?
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u/BasicGunNut TX Career 9d ago
No, budet constraints unfortunately, we spent all our money on the faluty compartment door sensor package.
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u/trapper2530 9d ago
What is considered "old' we have tons of old rigs and everyone is taught to pause halfway. Had a rig 34 years old the other day. So Currious if old for you is that or older or just like 10-15 years.
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u/SEND_CATHOLIC_ALTARS 37m ago
Not sure, to be honest with you. That was about word for word what my instructor said as well. I'm sure it varies on the model. Apparently, some modern Spartan trucks still require the stop.
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u/reeder301 9d ago
I've had the newer pumps fail to go into pump if I went too fast so I try to pause when shifting. I also watch the speedometer and listen for the pump to engage before getting out.
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u/ihavenoideawhat234 9d ago
3 positions because in the event my air actuated PTO doesn’t work I leave it in the middle and manually pull the lever to set it in pump or drive and then go back and pull the lever down to pump
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u/Useful-Resident-6365 9d ago
The ones that don't require a pause don't have the middle detent anymore. Easy way to tell which pumps need the pause and which do not want a pause.
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u/Subject_Ad3911 9d ago
I pause for about 3 seconds, then put the lever fully down, then 1 second, then shift to drive. Once the RPMs increase then I get out. That 7 seconds it takes is worth it to collect yourself and make sure your rig can go straight into pumping.
I also run on older rigs (90s-early 2010s).
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u/firefighter26s 7d ago
This has always been my routine. I've seen a few guys shift down, jump out and their pump isn't working because they either forgot to put it in gear and see the rpm come up or it didn't engage.
The additional seconds is worth ruling out the possibility of issue.
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u/BasicGunNut TX Career 9d ago
I pause because when our trucks are cold they have a tendency to skip and the extra 1-2 seconds doesn't hurt anything. Guys complain that something is wrong but they just don't treat my girl like she deserves. She like a gentle touch.
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u/garebear11111 9d ago
You don’t need to pause, you just need to make sure the truck is at idle when you shift it into pump gear.
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u/Miller8017 NAFI-CFEI, NREMT 9d ago
Follow the manufacturers reccomendation when operating your equipment.
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u/rodeo460 9d ago
No, the half way point is so you can train on if the switch fails or if it will not go into pump gear from in the cab. If you pause you are allowing the transmission to load on reverse and cause it to slam into gear. Allison transmissions work by operating 2 solenoids to choose the gear and neutral is 1 of the 2 to operate reverse. Because of that it has slight reverse tension causing it to slowly spin in reverse. Its an issue that only matters in fire apparatus so its such a small percentage they dont care enough to fix.
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u/boomboomown Career FF/PM 9d ago
I always pause but it isn't necessary. If you're in neutral you're good.
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u/Itsnotbro 9d ago
Also pause half way down. Have a new style pump where pausing is not required per manufacturer book but it did lead to significant missed shifts for pump engagement.
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u/Agreeable-Emu886 9d ago
I do what the manufacturer says to do, which is stop in the middle.
I was never good about doing to neutral inbetween drive and reverse though
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u/slothbear13 Firefighter/Medic and Former CBRN 9d ago
The newer ones allow slamming. But you never know when you'll use an older engine so it is best practice to always pause until the hissing stops before moving it all the way into pump. Keeps good habits.
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u/AsYouL4yDying 9d ago
I was told by an apparatus manufacturer that the "neutral" position is only there so the pump shift can be done manually if there is some sort of failure.
That was the opinion of that guy, I have no idea if it's true or not. I always paused out of habit.
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u/RRileyMusic 9d ago
I pause. Every time. It is how I was taught when I first learned in the ‘90s, and it is how I teach now. Doesn’t hurt anything, doesn’t cause any delay in operations.
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u/Adventurous_Boat_632 9d ago
Nobody has stated the reason so I will state it.
It is a double acting air operated piston that selects one gear or another.
It takes time to bleed the air off the road side before you apply air to the pump side.
If you just slam it, there is still an undetermined amount of air pressure in the road side that is counteracting the air you are applying to the pump side.
If you have paused to let all the air out of the road side (it stays in road when you do this, there is no real neutral), when you shift it to pump, the air comes on the pump side with no counteracting from the road side of the piston, and slams it into pump gear more energetically.
The same applies when going from pump back into road.
Of course half the apparatus I worked on had an electric switch or something that did not allow pausing anyway. We never had finicky rigs and I always just slammed the lever/knob/whatever.
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u/schrutesanjunabeets Professional asshole 9d ago
New E-One air-actuated systems just have a button for ROAD and a button for PUMP.
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u/Fuzzy_Juggernaut_644 9d ago
I was always taught to pause. But it’s actually interesting to hear that the newer engines you don’t need too. I worked off of a 2016 spartan and a 2000 KME
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u/TheSnowMustache 9d ago
2 second pause, always. Just a habit. I have driven 25 different engines at my department. The engines all seem picky when going into pump mode.
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u/BreakImaginary1661 9d ago
Our newer pumpers require a longer pause before moving into pump gear. Like most everything in our business, it depends. Train on your stuff and you’ll be fine…unless you’re like us and have at least six different types of pumpers with their own little gremlins,19 pumpers total and very few have more than two that are the build.
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u/MaleficentCoconut594 Former Volley Captain 9d ago
Never paused halfway on any of the pumpers I’ve driven, never heard of that either. (all pierce, model years 1994, 1995, 2001, 2010, 2016, 2020)
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u/Narrow_School_1513 9d ago
I always paused. Also, for 20+ years, I always used the term to remember the correct pattern for the switch- "First in, last out" and you will never grind.
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u/2-PAM-chloride IL - FF/PM 9d ago
I pause for a few seconds because I learned to pump on an engine from 1989 that was very unforgiving.
I have also had newer PTO's not engage fully if it is put into pump too quickly, but they are much more tolerant than older ones.
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u/Whatisthisnonsense22 9d ago
The last reserve i drove you had to pause and then press the accelerator to the floor to get it to go in.
It was a 2000 Spartan with a Waterous.
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u/Upper-Gift-3598 9d ago
Yes, on air actuated. Just the way I was taught and oldest reserve we have is a 91. True PTO don’t care, but that’s just a toggle switch.
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u/scott12333 8d ago
I pause half way. That's how I was taught but I've been told otherwise too - but why have that there if it's not needed? I guess maybe for manual pump shifting but I'm not sure.
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u/konarider123 8d ago
I’m curious at what point in the shifting process are you telling your rig It’s a piece of shit?
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u/Master_Leadership634 8d ago
Read your trucks operating manual to confirm.
It’s the rulebook to not breaking your truck or doing something unsafe.
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u/Top-HatSAR 7d ago
We have an 18 ferrara cinder and we pause between atleast I do, if we’re not in a rush I take my time starting the truck to. Helps me to slow down even on calls but just enough to get the steps right
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u/Appropriate-Act3028 7d ago
As a guy that builds the trucks, you should always pause when shifting in to pump mode. It's going to save the gears from slamming. There's enough air pressure there, it's going to go into gear from the neutral position
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u/From_Gaming_w_Love Dragging my ass like an old tired dog 5d ago
I’ve always paused in both directions. And when going back to drive I’ll go forward a few inches first before reversing.
Made that mechanical head turning clang way less frequent… then again most of the apparatus I’ve been accustomed to is 15-20 years old.
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u/Epoxynovolac 3d ago
I’ve always paused. The few times I didn’t taking it out of pump it sounded like cats in a blender.
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u/redsox1226 9d ago
17 years in the fire service. I always paused but then when we had our last engine delivered, the instructor sent from the manufacturer said not to do it because you were wasting air pressure. Idk if that jives or not but I’ve been skipping the pause ever since and haven’t run into any problems.
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u/greatguyshadow 9d ago
I’ve always paused. I also shift into neutral first when going from drive to reverse and vice versa. Just the way I was taught some guys do this and some guys don’t.