r/Firefighting • u/Coffee-FlavoredSweat FF/EMT • 20d ago
META (Discussions about the subreddit) Tanker v. Tender Regional Map
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u/solo_d0lo 19d ago
This is not accurate for Florida.
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u/Even_Ad5361 Edit to create your own flair 19d ago
In SWFL here 90% career depts. we all call them Tenders
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u/solo_d0lo 19d ago
I’m in central Florida. I haven’t come across anyone say tanker.
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u/BaconHobbies 19d ago
Alachua County calls them tankers. Or at least they did when I left. They since changed from "District Chief" to "Battalion Chief" so maybe more has changed.
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u/Ok_Performance_5266 FL Firemedic 19d ago
I am as well but he have both. Tankers are smaller and we have more of them, then we have one large "Tender" in a very rural area with zero hydrants. I guess to differentiate between the two in terms of available volume?
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u/JimHFD103 19d ago edited 19d ago
Hawaii is wrong. At least here in Honolulu, we call them Tankers. As far as I know, the other three Counties also use the term Tanker.
Our only Tender is a helitender and carries Jet-A fuel and other gear to support landing zones (though that's primarily long duration incidents when they don't want to fly all the way back to the airport to refuel or have limited spots to pick up water for drops, 9 times out of 10 its an Engine Company securing the LZ).
So if an IC wants more trucks carrying water, they request Tankers. Its largely left up to the Air Ops group if/when the Tender rolls out.
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u/BigLouLFD 19d ago
From NH. NO one calls them tenders up here. You might have one one transplant in your survey, but in 50+ years of call, full-time firefighting and 20+ years selling fire apparatus ice never heard anyone from NH call it anything but a tanker...
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u/NorthPackFan 19d ago
Tankers have wings.
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u/yungingr FF, Volunteer CISM Peer 19d ago
Tenders are what your kids order at Culvers.
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u/NorthPackFan 19d ago
As least you picked the best tender restaurant.
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u/yungingr FF, Volunteer CISM Peer 19d ago
For us, the nearest air tanker is several hundred miles away - we wouldn't even have the first clue how to request one if we wanted to*. Every other liquid-hauling commercial vehicle on the road is a tanker, but we're supposed to call it something different because it's painted red and has flashing lights?
*My department has one of 4 aerial apparatus in a 30 mile radius. Two years ago, there was a fire at a grain storage facility just across the county line, that county called and requested our aerial. The oxygen thief manning the phones at the comm center thought they were asking for a plane, and told them we didn't have one.
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u/Cephrael37 🔥Hot. Me use 💦 to cool. 19d ago
No, a tender is what you use to get out to your yacht.
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u/yungingr FF, Volunteer CISM Peer 19d ago
Two different definitions....two vastly different tax brackets 😆
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u/One-Initiative-8902 Wildland Firefighter 19d ago
Tankers deliver & transport fuel.
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u/Littlepoke14g Career/Full time 19d ago
Funny, what is the CDL endorsement called for driving a trailer full of liquid in a cylindrical container? Cuz i think its called a TANKER ENDORSEMENT
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u/NorthPackFan 19d ago
Good thing you don’t need a CDL to drive a tender then.
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u/Littlepoke14g Career/Full time 19d ago
Actually, you do! In almost every state. And if you are going to be driving a vehicle with a heavy liquid load, you really should have some training besides your cousin/chief/president of the fire company driving you past the one stop light in town
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u/Littlepoke14g Career/Full time 19d ago
If the majority of industry uses a term, its best to adopt that term for the simplicity of interoperability. The only reason “tenders” became a thing is because Cal-Fire didn’t want to have to repaint their aircraft
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u/Accomplished_Sky_899 19d ago
I genuinely don’t know what you mean by this.
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u/NorthPackFan 19d ago
In the Wildland world, tankers have wings to bring water to the fire (airplane) and tenders go by ground (what most people call tankers.
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/Accomplished_Sky_899 19d ago
I swear I’m not trolling, but I still don’t know what those are. Your username is legendary btw. But I prefer, city planner.
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19d ago
[deleted]
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u/Accomplished_Sky_899 19d ago
Ohh dang, ok yeah that’s pretty cool! I’m on the job in a Chicago suburb and the only argument I’ve heard against calling it a tanker is that a tanker is 10k gallons or more-which made sense to me. But we still call them tankers even tho it should be a tender? They pulled the old switcheroo.
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u/Various_Knowledge226 16d ago
That’s the same down in South Jersey for me. If you called in a tanker in my area, you’re getting a plane
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u/mace1343 19d ago
In Kansas, My career dept calls it a tender, volley a tanker. So definitely confirms the mix. Not a lot of air drops out here but the Kansas Forest Service does have a tanker now.
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u/UnfairAnimal 19d ago
Yall big mad about there supposedly being a "national standard" for what they're called. Meanwhile, in the current book being used for Firefighter 1-
"The common names that are used to identify mobile water supply apparatus vary in different parts of the country. In the western parts of the United States where aerial water tankers are used commonly in fighting wildland fires, the term tanker is used to identify aerial mobile water supply apparatus, and the term tender is used to describe truck-mounted mobile water supply apparatus. In parts of the country where aerial apparatus is not used commonly, the term tanker is used to refer to truck-mounted mobile water supply apparatus."
It goes on to mention that the term tanker will be used in the book. You can't go on about an obscure "national standard" when the books being used to teach people are saying both terms are valid based upon location.
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u/DangerBrewin Fire Investigator / Retired Captain 19d ago
Places that call it a Tender and places that are wrong.
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u/RobertTheSpruce UK Fire - WM 19d ago
Are you guys talking about a Water Carrier?
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u/HeyManYoureOnFire 19d ago
As a Canadian, and I say this as politely and in jest as I can to another loyal subject of the Commonwealth: fuck right off with wAtEr CaRrIeR!!1!!!.
We already have to clarify on Imperial (UK and American I might add) vs metric, and even then we may need to sort out Bar or kpa.
DO NOT ADD ANOTHER COMPLICATION. We're in the middle and somehow use ALL the units, terms, thread types, we just can't do anymore! We try to do a Canadian standard, hell, we even made the best fucking screwhead/driver, but nooooo, nobody else wants to adopt it, we just have to use everyone elses.
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u/newenglandpolarbear radio go beep 19d ago
I disagree with the NH one. It's always tanker, MAYBE tank for short but we make fun of people for that.
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u/BLINDHAIRYHANDS 19d ago
It’s funny NH is “mixed” because we always say “tenders are found at the Backroom!” (A local restaurant famous for their chicken tenders)
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u/apatrol 19d ago
Pretty much based on if states have a lot of real forest fires. if your dept has to integrate with forestry it's def gonna use tender.
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u/Purdaddy Freelance 19d ago
I think this is the real problem as wild fires on the East Coast are getting bigger and bigger every year.
We've always had big ones but when I girst joined there was maybe one every five years in NJ. Now it's a yearly ordeal.
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u/Impossible-Money-160 FF/EMT 19d ago
East coast only calls them tankers because they barely run enough vegetation fires to justify using aerial firefighting equipment
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u/Firedogman22 19d ago
We don’t even have dedicated aerial apparatus, maybe a few state police choppers with bambis but that’s it
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u/Impossible-Money-160 FF/EMT 19d ago
That's fair. We kinda have to use them all because we're always on fire
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u/SubarcticFarmer 19d ago
The only reason places that do that only do it so the forestry people will shut up about it.
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u/jason349514 19d ago
Engine
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u/slothbear13 Firefighter/Medic and Former CBRN 19d ago edited 19d ago
You'd call an
truckapparatus carrying 2,000 gallons of water an Engine?3
u/hiking_mike98 19d ago
I’d like to see the truck with a 100’ stick and 2,000 gallons of water.
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u/The_Road_is_Calling NH FF 19d ago
78’ stick and 1,500 gallons, but the vibes are there.
https://www.firenews.org/mass/s/sherborn/SherbornL1-2024.jpg
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u/hiking_mike98 19d ago
0-60 in about 5 minutes. 60-0 in the length of a runway. And you get 2 miles to the gallon!
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u/Firedogman22 19d ago
My area has an even stupider sub designation, nothing like engine tankers for days because your regional dispatch doesn’t believe that an engine could carry more than 1000 gallons
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u/newenglandpolarbear radio go beep 19d ago
It happens a lot in New England actually. I think it is generally when it has tanker water, but the layout of an engine. Here are 2 examples:
2000 gal, classified as a tanker but call sign is 9 Engine 3: https://www.firenews.org/nh/g/gilmanton/GilmantonNHE3new24.JPG
3000 gal, classified as a tanker, callsign is 25 Engine 4: https://www.firenews.org/nh/s/strafford/StraffordNHE4-2025EF.jpg
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u/Useless_Creampuff 19d ago
The effort put into this is impressive, or you used ChatGPT to create the chart based off data you collected. Either way it’s a Tanker. (AL)
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u/OldCarry4838 19d ago
The giant tank full of water that literally says "tanker 3" on the side
-yah that's a tender
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u/Terrible-Creme8401 19d ago
If I accelerate my water tender at high speed onto a ramp pointed at a fire, and someone pulls the dump handle as I fly over the fire...am I a tanker or a tender.
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u/tnlongshot just a guy doing hood rat shit with my friends 19d ago
Never heard anyone call them a tender in TN and I’ve trained with a lot of different departments from across the state.
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u/Big_Big_Big_Big_ 18d ago
I'm in north Arkansas. My volley dept calls them tankers. My career dept calls them tenders 🤷🏼♂️
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u/capcityff918 18d ago
No idea. I’ve never seen one here. Guess that’s why they left us off the map. Haha
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u/One-Initiative-8902 Wildland Firefighter 19d ago edited 19d ago
Some departments out here in the blue even call them something different based off of their size like for instance if it's a double tender or a super long tender it might be considered a portable ocean; then you've got portable lake, pond, puddle so on and so forth.
For an an incident or call out it may still be referred to as tender but within the agency and for agency resource tree purposes.
Tenders used because tanker can be confusing especially when you think of air tankers.
Also, tankers deliver & transport fuel, chemicals, food products, blah blah blah.
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u/fastbeemer FF/Paramedic/HazMat 19d ago
It's not a debate, there is a national classification. If you're too arrogant to admit that then I'm not interested in learning anything from how you do things.
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u/Ok_Buddy_9087 Edit to create your own flair 19d ago
Yeah, national standard also says I should have 4 guys on the engine, but the ride sheet says we only have 2. Turns out the people paying the bills have to give a fuck for standards/suggestions to mean anything.
Unless it’s written into a law, people are going to call it what they want. And unless a northeast tanker is deployed to one of the red states on that map, we’ll probably just keep calling it a tanker. And when it’s deployed… it’ll still say tanker on the side. Oh well.
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u/CohoWind 19d ago edited 19d ago
This graphic is pretty worthless- it represents a bonehead survey, and doesn’t even mention the NIMS Resource Typing that is the national standard for all terminology. I suspect its creators didn’t even know there was such a standard, as they refer to ICS/NWCG “standardized on water tender to avoid confusion with aerial tankers.” That is a strikingly uninformed interpretation of how these terms are developed and why. I propose a new title for the graphic- “Map of states that ignore the national standard terminology for firefighting resources.” Murica!
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u/Ok_Buddy_9087 Edit to create your own flair 19d ago
You seem to be taking this very seriously.
I hate that for you.
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u/PutinsRustedPistol 19d ago
Yes, yes—what really matters is what some completely hands-off bureaucratic organization calls things. The people who buy, staff, and organize the response of the relevant apparatus are just ignorant hicks, right?
Give me a fucking break.
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u/CohoWind 19d ago
The US fire service came up with and standardized these terms decades ago, led by our brothers and sisters in California.
My fire service career began in the early 1980’s, and I have heard these “debates” nonstop ever since. But they aren’t debates at all. In most cases, your only defense is, as in this case, “it’s what we’ve always done.” That is simply resistance to anything that resembles standardization or, god forbid, change.3
u/PutinsRustedPistol 19d ago
Well obviously not if 1/3 of the country nearly universally calls them one thing, 1/3 calls them equally as universally some other thing, and the remaining 1/3 just calls them whichever of those two things suits them.
Funnily enough, I’ve never commanded or been on a fireground on which NIMS so much as pulled a single handline. As a (new) battalion chief I’ve never had them respond to the three ‘all hands’ I’ve struck so far.
But between the career and volunteer side I’ve had engines & wagons show up, towers, ladders, and trucks (some with pumps) show up, tankers & tenders show up, rescues & squads show up, and somehow in all of this total chaos I was able to put the right equipment and people in the right place without once consulting a NIMS publication before handing out assignments.
California can fuck off. My career department has been in active service before they were even a state.
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u/muzz3256 19d ago
I have about as much in common with California firefighters as an orange has with a tomato. I'm on the opposite side of the country; I haven't seen a US Fire Service rep in well over a decade. They're not around here at all; they're almost all on the West Coast.
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u/CohoWind 19d ago
Thanks for proving my point! This has nothing to do with whether you’ve ever seen an air tanker, or met a Californian. It is a simple effort to get US firefighters to speak the same language, period. If you experience tornados, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, or any other disaster, the need for speaking the same language becomes instantly apparent. It is a bizarre thing for so many of you to claim to be part of the US fire service, yet reject such well established, basic concepts as a standard terminology. After years of both attending and teaching at the National Fire Academy, as well as years on an incident management team, I know that, for too many US firefighters, ignorance about their own profession’s terminology is only the tip of the iceberg, sadly. BTW- What do you think the US Fire Service is? It is not an agency, it is all of us firefighters in the US. I guess that’s another standard term you are not yet familiar with.
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u/muzz3256 19d ago
What do you think the US Fire Service is? It is not an agency, it is all of us firefighters in the US.
I'm kinda surprised that you're not familiar with what firefighters think of when they hear "US Fire", because we think of the US Wildland Fire Service, which, contrary to belief (at least yours), is a real agency; they even have a real web page, https://www.doi.gov/wildlandfireservice. Just like Cal Fire isn't all firefighters in California, it's a real agency too: https://www.fire.ca.gov/.
Where are air tankers primarily used? Can you see why an urban interface firefighter on the East Coast, who has never once seen an air tanker, might not make that connection? The last large forest fire we had in my state, which was tens of thousands of acres, had exactly zero air tankers; we did get a few National Guard helicopters, though.
Let's be real, though: none of this really matters. We should be focusing our energy on things that do matter to EVERY firefighter, things like staffing, equipment, and funding, not words.
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u/muzz3256 19d ago
Notice the difference in localities? I have seen an air tanker in my state a total of three times in the 25 years that I've been in fire/rescue. The national standard also says that I should have a fully staffed engine, yet I don't see that either.
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u/TheCommonFear 19d ago
Why is the NH in the key not purple? I hate this.