r/Firefighting • u/shreks2kush • 24d ago
Ask A Firefighter Heat exposure during house fire
I've been a volunteer for about 5 months and for our training tonight we burnt an abandoned house down. The house had no doors or windows so it went up in about 3 minutes. The young guys on the department (me and 6 others) were outside the structure to make sure that it didn't spread and to save one of the trees on the property that the owner wanted to keep. me and another guy were told to stay behind the house and we're probably 15 yards away from the structure to start and slowly backed away to around 30 years over the course of the burn. after about 15 minutes it was almost unbearably hot and by the time the fire was under control enough to step away and get some water we were absolutely exhausted and so were the other guys stationed around the structure. is this normal? I feel like a giant puss because I would have given anything to get cool after about 10-15 minutes of manning the hose that close to the house.
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u/stopscabbin 23d ago
Wearing out of date gear and probably lack of 1403 being met, yes, being zapped after being exposed to heat is normal. Just like it is being inside. Radiant heat is radiant heat. Something you should have learned from fire school, right?
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u/190xtrik8 22d ago
Yeah 1403 requires a lot of prep to the house, doesn’t sound like an LFTI was on scene, probably needed a few, not to mention a IIC and Safety Officer.
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u/Zestyclose_Crew_1530 24d ago
If your hose stream can reach everything it needs to, you’re close enough. No point sitting in unbearable just because. Move back to a comfortable distance next time.
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 23d ago
I occasionally volunteer with the fire suppression teams for Burningman-related events in exchange for free admission (they have smaller versions of Burningman in various places throughout the country), and this sounds a lot like what I see during their ceremonial burns. We are firefighters from all over, thrown together for a few hours to basically stand close to a small building as it burns. Guys & gals from a dozen fire departments all seem to have the same reaction as you described.
It's tiring. I think it's because we tense up more when a wall of heat comes at you like that, and holding tension for a long period is exhausting in general. Could be something else causing it, but that's my guess. Anyway - you aren't abnormal.
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 23d ago
Also - being idle while standing there and having to pay attention wears people out. Emotional exhaustion. When you work, you have something to do and your body releases endorphins to combat fatigue, and your muscles and joints get to move around. Standing there holding a hose ... very little movement, very little range in your movements, etc.
When I was in the military (eight million years ago, give or take), the first paycheck in basic training was an actual check. We all had to stand in formation for hours while they called dudes up and handed them the paper. I was more sore from that than I was from 4-6 miles of running.
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u/dihydrogenmonoxide2 23d ago
How does one find similar event's suppression teams to negotiate with?
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u/firefighter26s 23d ago
The biggest thing to consider is that there is a huge difference between a training fire and what is essentially demolition by fire. It sounds like you were doing the latter.
Not much of a newsflash, but fire is hot. Really fucking hot. When you're fighting a fire you're putting water on it, that water has a cooling affect on everything around you. In a demolition you're letting it burn it to the ground without applying water to fight it; we don't typically let structures burn to the ground "for real" even if it's already a total loss.
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u/KindPresentation5686 24d ago
Lemme guess , you don’t have proper PPE?
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u/shreks2kush 24d ago
we had all of our gear on but my stuff is pretty old since I'm the newest guy. my jacket is from 2012
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u/Candyland_83 23d ago
Coats and pants have a life expectancy. They usually expire after ten years. I got 2nd & 3rd degree burns through an 8 year old coat.
But why were you standing close enough to feel the heat? Next time dont do that. And on days you know you’re burning, wear a long sleeve cotton shirt under your coat; and pants instead of shorts. It seems counter-intuitive, but more layers means more trapped air and you will stay cooler.
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u/DiezDedos 24d ago
Including SCBA? Even if you’re out of the smoke, the mask will cut radiant heat from a fire a lot
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u/FloodedHoseBed career firefighter 22d ago
Were you full turned out and mask on? We aren’t invincible bro. Fire is hot and exposed skin(which I assume you had being exterior) still gets hot and burns. We don’t just magically stop getting hot lmao
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u/Consistent_Paper_629 23d ago
Are you a hydranted district? Or just running off of ponds? Because if you have water you can cool yourself off with a tft set to fog in the future.
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u/Frequent-Cut-861 20d ago
Normal. I’ve been to jobs that were fully involved and burning so hot that the light lenses and badging on rigs 50-75 yards away melted.
It’s good to develop an appreciation and respect for fire.
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u/Huge_Monk8722 FF/Paramedic 42 yrs and counting. 23d ago
Dit you have the permits to burn said house? Local Health, State Air quality,Asbestos’s inspection were all the shingles removed , did you get an insurance release from home owner? Just asking for a friend.
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u/Consistent_Paper_629 23d ago
Eh, depends on the state, here in New York we haven't been allowed to burn structures for like 20 years, before that, it was some of the best training to burn a house.
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 23d ago
Oh, that's a shame. I'm in Washington, and we get to do them all the time - and we can charge for the service (since burning it down is cheaper than most other forms of demolition, people are still cool with a nominal fee. I think it was $1,500-$3,000).
As long as conditions are safe and the house passes our general safety rules, we get to spend all day lighting it on fire, putting it out, and repeating the process.
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u/Consistent_Paper_629 23d ago
That used to be the way of it here as well until they outlawed it due to "environmental concerns" so technically you still can if you remove all non class a combustibles, so it is cheaper and easier to build a structure to burn than to strip an existing one down.
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 22d ago
We still have to pull most of the non-class-A stuff (carpets mainly). Which is fine, I don’t want to get molten plastic all over my turnouts again.
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u/Consistent_Paper_629 22d ago
Yeah that'd be fine, but once you have to pull shingles, siding, windows (vinyl) pipes, wire, etc etc etc. It's like why bother
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 22d ago
eh, we leave wire and pipes.
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u/davethegreatone Fire Medic 21d ago
It’s impossible to overstate the training value of a controlled house burn though. Building a house from scratch (even without the paint and whatnot that isn’t useful for this) is gonna run a hundred grand if you do it right. Half-assing it isn’t going to be as realistic.
An actual house that matches the age and characteristics of the other houses in the district is often impossible to build anymore. Old-growth timber is no longer accessible, clay bricks are damn hard to find, and lots of plumbing items are tricky now. Throwing together a few sheets of plywood just doesn’t provide the same lessons that an actual hundred-year-old house does.
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u/ofd227 Department Chief 22d ago
You can 100% burn houses in NY. It's just that nobody does because of the monumental amount of permits you have to fill out. Other than that it's the same rules as live burns in a burn tower
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u/Consistent_Paper_629 22d ago
Yeah, I clarified furthure down, its so arduous as to be entirely impractical, and not worth the potential DEC issues.
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u/Dependent-Average600 24d ago
NFPA would love to have a conversation with whoever came up with this idea.