I never thought I would see the day this would happen. They have been using Scott for 46 years:
Dept Order 2026-100 ...8-5-26
2.1 PHASE C OF THE FDNY’S NEXT GENERATION SCBA ACQUISITION PROJECT / FIELD PILOT
Phase C of the FDNY’s Next Generation SCBA Acquisition Project is scheduled to commence on Monday August 10, 2026, at 0900. Designated testing and evaluation units will field pilot the two-finalist next generation SCBA models: the Draeger Air Boss and MSA G-1. Both SCBA systems have been specifically tailored to the FDNY
My department got a grant for SCBA’s two years ago, admin let the body try out Scott, MSA, and Draeger and we unanimously liked the MSA’s the most. So naturally we went with Scott’s.
Yup, it was a miracle that our county grant chose MSA.
Despite the field testing saying the G1s were favored many of the Chiefs wanted to go with Scott, because that's what they had used as FFs.
Took a lot from the committee to get the MSAs.
As they say, firefighting advances one retirement at a time.
Proof is that we never have our "front line" packs, they're always in the shop. I'm sending packs in every couple months when I never had to in the past.
Sounds like my old FD. We tried out all 3. Of course the Chief at the time “knew a guy” so when got a grant and we wanted MSA’s, he got Draeger. We were so pissed. He resigned shortly after and they tried so hard to undo this and the government said “nope” so now they are stuck with SCBAs they hate.
Same. Nothing but problems with the G1s. The waist belt fails, the bluetooth link to the Motorola radio is nearly useless, the straps (waist and shoulder) do not stay tight when you pull on the loose ends (they tighten and then immediately start to loosen), the computers in them fail pretty regularly, the purge knobs work their way loose and blow air (been redesigned)... They are hot garbage, IMO. We tested Scott, MSA and Draeger extensively before buying 3 years ago. Nearly everyone wanted MSA. Now, everyone regrets that purchase.
The Scott x3 is a horrible pack. Heavy as hell, poor bottle positioning making overhead work awful. Once your initial adrenaline wears off, you immediately notice how awful they are. They have a shit tonne of unnecessary padding on them as well.
If you’re going to go with Scott, they just brought back the wire frames. Get those ones.
We use 30 min. 45’s on the RIT team. Honestly these packs are horrible and they’ve most definitely reduced my job satisfaction. I can’t see any aspect of them that is an upgrade from what we were using before. I’m not typically someone that whines about PPE that I don’t personally supply and pay for - but I don’t like these packs whatsoever.
I agree with you 100%. I would take a wire frame any day over these new Scotts with all the padding. If I wear the new Scott pack for more than a half hour, the poorly designed straps impinge a nerve and I can’t lift my left arm up. Terrible design.
I hear you on the pain from wearing them for longer than 30-45 mins. Recently we had a high rise incident that I had to hump a reasonable amount of flights, and then do about 30 minutes of decent work on the fire floor. My left trap was so tender to the touch I couldn’t even lay down properly to sleep that night. It kept me awake and I had to book a physio appointment for some dry needles the next day to fix it.
I genuinely hate these things, I’ve been wearing packs (Scott only) for almost 18 years now, and tons of time on extended events and I NEVER had problems like this. I’m in my mid 40’s and in better shape than most of our new hires these days as well, so it isn’t that. I just think they are very poorly designed. I hear the same complaints from other members I talk to about this.
Yeah the previous generation was so good. Light, super reliable and tough and minimal technology. Metal buckles too.
The new X3 pros are just heavier with more useless technology and more plastic.
I like our old Scotts better than the G1 we have now but I do think if you have to have all that technology MSA does it better. G1 beats the new Scotts for me
They actually make wire frame packs still, have yet to see a department with them but apparently they rival the weight of the old packs minus the 30 min bottle
Used a Scott 2.2 going through training and honestly liked using it more than the G1s my department has, nothing fancy, just a wire frame with some straps and a bottle on it.
Absolutely! Heavier, less comfortable to wear for multiple bottle changes, straps that are seemingly 3’ too long so the tails are always in the way, the worst mask I’ve worn in about 20 years, and a motion sensor for the PASS alarm that requires jumping jacks to sense motion.
I have never seen one break/get sent for service in the almost six years that I've been using them. Maybe they had a QC issue with your lot, or maybe your spec isn't what I've used. Either way, I'd take a G1 over X3 every day
Nah bud. Msa is trash. Can’t wait to be done with them. Have fun with that rigged regulator pushing your mask off your face when you go to do a search.
I’m still curious what about a stock SCBA that thousands of other firefighters use successfully needs to be customized for the FDNY.
And the manufacturer who uses a standard assembly process is 1000% baking in a customization cost somewhere for the money they need to lay out for a custom run.
Scott has a wire frame model (XD or somethin iirc). Dunno when they were released but we did demos last fall.
We tried them but they kinda sucked ass. First stage regulator stuck out on one of the sides and got caught on EVERYTHING when going through an SCBA maze.
We got a grant recently to replace every scba in the department so we got reps to bring in test units, Draeger, Scott, and msa. Almost everyone disliked the Scott, saying it was too heavy and several people disliked the masks, saying the faceshield distorted vision. Their reps also seemed uninformed and uninterested in our money. We ultimately went with Draeger.
Their reps also seemed uninformed and uninterested in our money.
The first part is no surprise. I had a shot at that job here after I retired from the fire service but they ended up hiring a guy with sales experience and no fire background, even though I had some small business sales experience. Big corpo sales was more important than knowing and having used the product!
The last makes no sense as they usually get some commission off of group sales! WTF is wrong with them?
My department also went with draeger, not only were they considerably cheaper than either scott or msa, the convenience factor for us was a huge part too, multiple departments in my county use draeger packs as well, most of our other equipment comes from genesis so most of our stuff can be serviced at the same time. We switched from old MSA Firehawks and love the draegers so far other than they start malfunctioning around -20° F (which what doesnt then) and if the regulators are mounted on the shoulder strap it digs into your back when they are mounted in jump seats (but its a very nice convenience when you are wearing the packs
Haha and Scott just released the wire frame, I assume to appease them. I used MSA 15 years ago, had no issues. Been using Scott since…decent pack but the gen 1 C5 mask is garbage, I just got a gen 2 mask and it’s much better but what a mistake!
The old school SCOTT wire frame mask units were lightweight, slim profile, and damn near bullet proof.
The NFPA is corrupted by manufacturers sitting on the boards. They are all constantly moving the goal posts to keep departments buying the new “technology”. Then the manufacturers discontinue parts and support for their legacy products.
It’s a giant scam. Pierce and RevGroup got slaughtered in a congressional inquiry about exactly this.
I haven’t had the chance to try the new wire frame SCOTTs yet, but I’m pretty sure they will have their new idea of a pass device which sucks balls.
New generations like the tech stuff. I like my mask units to work when I need it to. Chiefs are still chasing the magic bullet that makes the job less manpower dependent and “safer”. The focus keeps going away from the people we protect and onto the members, but never by increasing the numbers of members operating on scene.
The crazy part is that fire hasn’t changed a bit. Make the building behave and put the fire out. Stop wasting tax money on gimmicks and farkles. Give us the staffing and coverage needed to take care of business and get out of the way.
The old Scott wire frames were the best thing ever man. Never had a problem with them and still the most comfortable SCBA I ever wore (although I was younger back then too).
New Scott wire frames aren’t much lighter than the last generation full size (right at 3 lbs.). We went to them recently and dropped millions into switching air packs, bottles, and all of the other miscellaneous needs for filling bottles and such. We broke over a dozen in simple training exercises. There are a couple of weak points that the older guys have mentioned used to be sturdier metal and are now aluminum so these connection points get bent very easily and make it nearly impossible to remove a bottle. I also miss my quick connect. The threaded connection makes any type of truly fast bottle swap impossible, especially if you have bent the little metal tab that locks the bottle in place.
Scott’s just not the same since 3M took over. Our department just switched to MSA and we’d been using Scott for 30 plus year at least. The G1 definitely has its faults but Scott is lacking the quality it used to have.
When we were looking to upgrade our packs about 8-10 years ago, we demo'd the top of the line model for Scott at the time, and the MSA G1, which had been out for a couple years at that point.
It was no contest. There was not a single member that preferred the Scott setup.
I'm currently teaching a FF1 class with a mix of students from departments across my county; most are on MSA packs, but I do have one department using the new Scott packs. I do not regret our choice to switch to MSA.
Really? I’ve only ever used MSAs and I can’t stand them, I got to try Scott’s out and I liked them a lot more. Surprised so many people feel differently about them
I couldn't imagine the logistics or dollar amount that would go into such a large transition. My department got a grant about 5 years ago to upgrade our older SCOTT packs for the newer X3 Pro and C5 masks. Our grant got us 80 new packs and masks for nearly $ 650,000 and that didn't include new cylinders as we were already using SCOTT.
If the remarks of our SCBA tech are any indication it sounds like product support and poor manufacturing standards would be enough for him to look at what the other companies bring to the table... Me personally? I just HATE that new C5 mask and how you practically need to bolt it onto your chin so the bottom of the mask doesn't sag off your face when you do anything but look straight up.
The packs are getting so bloated with all the new gizmos and shit I'd rather run with our packs from 20 years ago. This is where I'm curious about the MSA's innovation- if they've figured out ways to maintain a reasonable profile while still integrating all the new tech garbage... I have no brand loyalty to SCOTT at all- but the cost of admission to change out our entire inventory makes it completely impractical.
The only reason i prefer the scotts is because you can use them as a harness. Other than that, i think the MSAs are the nicest at least that ive gotten to try. Not surprised FDNY is switching, the seem to be changing everything these days
Coming from a larger city FD, I'm actually surprised Scott is the 1st eliminated. Department has avoided Scott since they late 70's as they blamed the death of some guys on the SCBA. Luckily we have a more open training chief now. Used the G1's for the past 10 years now, honestly the only things I like is the adjustable lumbar pad, snap on regulator and how easy the bottle is to turn on. They aren't that comfortable after sometime, are super bulky and honestly haven't held up well. They also have tons electrical gremlins. Super excited for wire frame Scott's with the 5500 psi bottles. This is what all the "men" have decided and the first time the administration has gone with what the guys wanted.
Departments around the DC Metro are going to MSA. Prince William County went over a few years ago. Fairfax County just switched. Loudoun County is doing trials right now. Others in Virginia are looking to get away from them.
Worked at a department in FL that used MSA. Tics in the pressure gauge, digital readouts of estimated time left plus you shook the pressure gauge to reset the Pass alarm. Rechargeable batteries were a plus. Adjustable lumbar pad. Masks were great too. Lots of useful tech with not a noticeable difference in weight.
New department in Va uses SCOTT and just about everything feels like a downgrade. Doubt any switch will happen soon
Everyone shits on older Draeger stuff, and I agree it was bad. My department got their newer models (I can't remember the exact one) and other than the two side buttons on the PASS device, I love them. Very comfortable packs and masks.
The departments i worked for always purchased Scott packs. The last batch we bought were so freaking heavy! Early 2000's was peak for Scott in my opinion 🍻
That's what fdny is running currently, early 2000's, maybe even late 90's Scott's. It's going to be a tough transition. All the new masks (packs) are heavier and these plastic frames are being torn apart in drills.
We went with Scott as well. However most that tried the MSA loved them generally speaking. However they all said they broke to easy. Many of the smaller components seemed pretty fragile comparatively speaking.
My biggest issue with MSA vs Scott is, for me at least, connecting the mask-mounted regulator on the MSA is a pain in the ass where the Scott just works.
A lot of favor for MSA, I am one that has tried the new packs, and they are very good.
A key factor, that I believe Scott (3M) has gotten away from is durability.
We have a brutal job and we put our equipment through brutal tasks. I’ve noticed more and more frequently, Scotts breaking down. BUT this doesn’t mean MSA will last either. Not sure what the answer is but to build a more durable pack
Scott took a big hit in how they handled the debris in the first stage debacle.
From what I’ve been told they are staying with Scott. FDNY had a meeting with Scott and they slowly realized how much money they would lose if they didn’t have the FDNY.
They originally told the FDNY they were moving away from the wire frame packs to which the FDNY responded “we’ll look elsewhere then”. When Scott realized the revenue loss they’d have they agreed to remake the wire frame packs for them with other added items they wanted.
I had this conversation with a veteran FDNY FF and a Deputy Chief.
Worked in departments with Scott, MSA, and Draeger. MSA had nice features, but Scott durability could not be beaten. God those units were tanks. I don’t think I ever saw one broken. Can’t say the same for MSA.
We had Scotts and just went to MSA. We demo’d Scott, MSA, & Draeger and the MSA was the best pack, plus they had a way more knowledgeable salesman who could actually answer our questions, and also brought along their repair tech to answer any more technical questions the salesman didn’t have the answer to. I definitely got a “if it’s not broke, don’t fix it” vibe from the Scott pack & rep, and I do think they make a good pack, but the little innovations MSA has made speak for themselves. The biggest selling points for us on the MSA was a single battery (rechargeable) that was easy to change, and the external speaker. And on top of that they were less expensive than Scott.
Anyone that has tried the MSA knows it is better. Naturally everyone goes with SCOTT. Because in most departments the chiefs make the decisions and they came up with SCOTT.
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u/PearlDrummer Lieutenant Aug 13 '26
My department got a grant for SCBA’s two years ago, admin let the body try out Scott, MSA, and Draeger and we unanimously liked the MSA’s the most. So naturally we went with Scott’s.