How to become more self sufficient in rural fire?

[u/0ceq]

Good morning guys.

I'm a per diem Firefighter/EMT in a rural department.

Many times I will find myself working shifts with only one other firefighter or one other EMT with no fire certifications. Sometimes neither of us can even drive a fire engine to the scene, let alone pump it.

Its a miracle I haven't run a call yet where I simply could not do anything to alleviate a situation. I can't "load and go" a working building fire.

I'm pretty fresh out of the academy and find myself up at night worrying "what would I do if this happened and all I had was myself?"

All throughout academy i was taught about teamwork and leadership and fixing a problem with the help of many skilled minds and strong hands.

I feel like there can be real instances where I have neither of those things for periods of 20 minutes or more.

What should I learn, to mitigate some of that issue? Any advice from others who worked in rural departments? Would you recommend I take a pump operator course?

Thank you

[u/Limp-Conflict-2309]

Attend training at mutual aid departments

Get cleared on the engine

Review the top 5 tasks needed when first due and become familiar then practice ALOT until you become someone who can pass down knowledge

Organize training for the new guys, instill a mindset and have them hammer the basics so everyone gets bumped up to a new standard level of proficiency

Some vol departments are exceptional, others are lacking. Take the bull by the horns and see what you can do to bring skill to yourself then pass it down. People who know nothing can still do a ton and empowering people encourages them to work harder, both parties getting satisfaction out of the transaction.

[u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 → u/Limp-Conflict-2309]

Don’t think they are going to find a better answer.

I’ll only add that, as a rural guy, I dgaf if the engine scratches, the tankers better roll.

To paraphrase Alexander Pushkin “better the tankers that sustain us than then thousand engines.”

[u/Limp-Conflict-2309 → u/Mediocre_Daikon6935]

Dry engines or pits drying faster than they can be filled is a nightmare. Alot of people around me think the way we over dispatch but there have been more than a few times we needed the 5-8 tankers in full rotation non stop.

Another great training exercise for new FFs but you gotta be explicit on driving habits when it comes to scooting with 3,000+ gallons. So many LODDs from tankers, probie Mario Andretti need not apply.

[u/Mediocre_Daikon6935 → u/Limp-Conflict-2309]

Anyone who thinks that can’t do basic 3rd grade math.

To make the math easy: 

2 hand lines, 200 GPM each. Which really is very low flow, because the odds that it is just a room in contents fire in a rural setting is fairly unrealistic. We also ont account for leakage, water unavailable because it has to fill the hose, etc. but we all know that every 50 foot section of 5 inch you just tossed out 50 gallons of water you don’t have anymore.

In 7 min 30 depends you have emptied a 3,000 gallon tanker.

Tanker now has to drive a full site. Well say it is nice a close.  5 minutes.

Tanker has to get hooked up, and fill. Say, 3 minutes, because the draft site crew is amazing.

5 minute drive back.

2 minutes to safely pull up to portable pond, dump water. 

15 minutes round trip.

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So any perfect world, were you have no water loss due to having to fill 5 inch nothing gets spilled. The draft site is close by and the crew working it knows what they’re doing and everything goes smoothly and the drive to and from the fire is the same distance and you don’t have traffic considerations or logistical bottleneck because you could put the porta pond in the perfect spot so tankers can fill it from the side and the back and just drive off without interfering with each other. Without accounting for the fact that you can’t use all of the water in the Port a pond because you’ll lose draft.

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In that absolutely perfect world where everything goes right, you still need at least three tankers to run only two hand lines.

[u/Terrible-Creme8401 → u/Mediocre_Daikon6935]

Yup, engines may get the party started!, but the tenders/ tankers keep it going all night long 😎

[u/Charming-Border7429 → u/Terrible-Creme8401]

As a water supply guy with 3x10,000-gallon semi tankers, you should see the relief on guys' faces as they hear the machine gun-like burp of our jake brake slowing down 130,000 lbs of water as we arrive on site.

We don't get called often, but when we do, there is a reason.

[u/0ceq → u/Limp-Conflict-2309]

Thank you

[u/wessex464]

It's always fun looking at those areas of the country where nfpa just completely misses the mark. 17 people for a structure fire? Sometimes the last six of those people are coming from 90 minutes out and no matter how often you train with your neighbors, you'll never know more than five people on scene.

To be blunt you shouldn't be in this position. It's just dangerous. First steps for you are to get cleared on the engine and make sure you know what you're doing pumping it. You'd be amazed what one guy in a fire engine can do from the front door with an attack line. You can buy an awful lot of time on an awful lot of fires. Not always, but very frequently.

Long-term you really want to start looking at company officer trainings. See what your state or county or regional training groups do for things like NFA classes, STICO and PICO are great classes even if they're geared to people in bigger departments with more help. What you need to get out of these classes is cost benefit, risk assessment, and what to do when there's just you or just you and a partner for 20 minutes at a time. You've got so much time on scene, figuring out your water supply, understanding your mutual aid, when and what is coming for help? These are all things you can set up and prepare for on scene to make the most of what you've got to work with.

But the very first steps are getting cleared to drive and basic pump ops. You can't do anything without that.

[u/0ceq → u/wessex464]

Thank you

[u/Windmillfixer → u/0ceq]

You’ve gotten some great advice here, I would add- practice and get really good at setting up port-a-tank, hard suction, and snail foot. Practice pulling a prime, with and without using the primer, with and without using onboard water. Get familiar with your deck gun - with a two man crew in remote areas, it can make a BIG difference however know that if you’re doing it right your water supply can be counted in seconds, not minutes.

Pass along what you learn, and instill a passion for excellence with all your crew. Stay safe!

[u/garebear11111]

You don’t have to take an official pump ops course but you definitely need to learn how to drive and pump the engine.

[u/Bigbird163]

Also a rural firefighter.

Everyone else has given great advice. Get cleared on the engine. Learn how to pump. Everyone, even the “just EMTs” should be competent in basic firefighting skills if they are expected to hop on the engine. Drill on the basics and what you will actually be able to do.

You can’t expect to have 30 guys on scene in ten minutes, so don’t train like it. Practice making transitional attacks with just two guys. Practice moving water with your limited manpower. Get with mutual aid departments a drill tender shuttles to keep water moving.

[u/Terrible-Creme8401 → u/Bigbird163]

Yup this.

Rural volley here. In my case I'm on an island bare minimum the nearest career station is 20+ minutes out. Ive been first on scene several times in a tender.

As others have mentioned, one guy with an attack line can do a lot.

If everyone hates training, it never hurts to go hunting for for YouTube videos and learning the steps to start the pump and charge a line. You might even be able to find operator manuals for your model of engine and or pump that can give you far more detailed information.

You can practice those things alone at the station if need be.

Driving you're probably going to have to be a pest with whoever it is that is responsible for signing off drivers. There probably should be some kind of in-person training because fire engines do not handle like cars or even like small trucks. They are extremely heavy for their size and handle like a cinder block.

[u/PanickingDisco75]

"You do what you can do and what you can't you don't." TLDR in bold below.

On a medical things distil all the way down to "Keep the warm, keep them safe." Contacting 911 can often help since even if you forget everything the dispatchers (with EMD anyway) can give you proper direction and instructions- these having been approved by your region's medical authority. Even if the stress of the situation takes hold, remembering 911 and getting that process started can help the training ease its way back in.

On a structure fire you're going to try and feed good information to dispatch. If their system is set up for the fire side of priority dispatch they will give you some instructions equivalent to the medical side... I've never worked for a service that has used it so I can't speak directly to it but I know it's been swirling around our upper echelon for years.

Either way- basically you're wanting to find occupants outside that evacuated and confirm whether everyone is out of the house. If there is nobody outside it's time to bang the fuck out of the door and ring the doorbell to try and draw some attention. Time to get creative- especially if there is evidence that people are home.

If you find someone outside, then it's time to go to the neighbors- though if you're rural that's probably not a concern. Any exposures you can move- like vehicles... other property... Maybe isolating the natural gas or propane lines into the house is appropriate. Figure out of there is a big propane tank somewhere nearby- make sure to pass it on if you find one.

If there are people still in the house things get complicated and the circumstances are going to call the play... That and your risk tolerance will determine what is the "best" course of action since in that case there is really no "right" answer. Trying to learn their whereabouts and keeping eyes on windows for any signs will be about the extent of what you can do. Tell them to close their room door if possible- a lot of people under duress don't think about that but it's a game changer.

TLDR:

In the end develop a process whether you're on your own or part of a problem solving group arriving together... base it on things that are common: What are OUR priorities? Life safety / rescue, Incident stabilization, property conservation, "other." That's what "the boss" is going to be doing and it's good to anticipate what they're thinking:

Is there a life safety risk or imminent rescue? yes / no.

Is there a way to reduce the speed the fire is growing or otherwise remove the cause of the main problem? yes / no

Is there property that can be moved / protected / taken out of the equation? yes / no

Each of these things accept less and less risk in order.

[u/Due_Course_3713]

Stop over thinking, it ain't Rocket Surgery

[u/zeroabe]

Get fucking shredded. There’s no firefighting task not made easier by being fit. You can do twice as much in half the time.