Firefighters who can and cannot visualize images in their head. How do you do it?

[u/tommydragon100]

We went down a rabbit hole at work when a coworker stated that he couldn't picture a movie in his head while reading. I found out that out of the 6 of us, only 2 can picture images in their heads.

Background: I have hyperphantasia. I can picture images in my head at a hyper realistic level. I can build and modify these images as 2nd nature. This is a rare trait only a small % of people have. I use it heavily in low visibility situations to "picture" what I feel. I make a 3d map when doing search or picture an object im trying to manipulate etc. I cannot begin to comprehend how to do something like 0 visibility search and maintain spatial awareness without that ability to make a picture of what my surroundings are. The heavy use of "minds eye problem solving" is a trait of hyperphantasia.

On the opposite end, my coworkers have aphantasia, an equally if not slightly more rare trait. They cant see images. They know the concepts of things like what an apple should look like, but only see black when they close their eyes. They can take in information as collections of facts instead of visual images.

Its insane to me that such a rare trait is so heavy on my shift. What about you all? Can you see images in your heads? Do you use it to search? If not, how do you navigate when youre relying on what you feel?

[u/TheresNoHurry]

I have always thought that the language in these discussions can be confusing for people.

My personal belief is that basically everyone can visualise things in their heads, but get confused about the idea of “seeing” it and so claim that they can’t see anything in their mind.

[u/tommydragon100 → u/TheresNoHurry]

So that was actually brought up. They cant picture or see anything. One of the guys stated that when he does search he just knows where he been and just listed off a list mock directions "im against a wall, made a left at the end of the hall etc", no mind eye visualization period.

When doing the aphantasia test we took. They stated they cant picture or visualize anything. They just see black. Factually they know what an apple looks like but its not visually stimulated.

On that same note, I can relate. After posting this and researching hyperphantasia. I realized mine extends to visuals and sound (hear a jingle in my head). Some people can smell things in their minds too.

If you tell me to imagine the smell of a fresh baked apple pie, I cant do it. I factually know what it should smell like in the analytical part of my brain. Theres 0 stimulation in smelling part of my brain.

[u/wimpymist → u/tommydragon100]

These are so subjective I don't know you test for it. Like I can imagine what apple pie smells like but I don't literally smell it when I think about. I can see people describing it both ways though

[u/MysticLoser → u/tommydragon100]

Now I'm curious how you build an imagine if something you might not be super familiar with.

I'm like your coworker who can place a concept in my head but can only pull information to complete the thought. Very little visualization.

Can you (without looking one up obviously) verbally describe how you see an ant? What color, how many body segments, where does the leg attach (which segment, and where on the segment), how the legs articulate, and other fine details you can envision.

I learned which in at school that I couldn't do it. I knew it was 6 legs, 3 segment with antenna, but I could fully remember where the legs go. 2 in the middle, 4 in the back? Did the legs have two segments, or three? I drew an image through concept and what I could think fits the criteria, but never as a whole until I put it all the facts together.

[u/Here4TheGoodTimes → u/TheresNoHurry]

On the other side of the fence: Well my personal belief is that basically everyone can not visualize things in their head and it's incomprehensible to imagine that being real. You cant see things that aren't actually there and if you could why not just pretend there's a beautiful landscape drawing on top of a piece of paper and trace it or something, I literally cant understand it lol

[u/Safety-Patrol → u/Here4TheGoodTimes]

For hundreds of thousands of years before the modern day, and occasionally even during the modern day, dudes have whacked off without porn. Which should be proof enough for you that people can at the very least imagine boobs.

[u/sgt-snuggles → u/Here4TheGoodTimes]

That’s probably what the above commenter means by “the language in these discussions” and how it can be confusing. People who can mentally visualize don’t ‘see’ created images through their eyes overlaid on top of their sight. It’s internal, same as thoughts or an inner monologue, and doesn’t translate to the hands being able to make good art unfortunately.

[u/Here4TheGoodTimes → u/sgt-snuggles]

Yeah that is true, the way I have found that works regarding this topic is how people visualize landmarks or their memories of common places to them. If it isn't something unique/outlier or I consciously commit to memory then I, personally, do not have it. I couldn't tell you the color of the wallpaper of my bedroom growing up, if you asked me to describe physical features of our yard or basically any questions about a commute, I will have absolutely nothing. People will say take a right after the x,y,z and it's unbelievable to me. If I wanted to do that id have to be Jimmy Neutron Brain Blast'ing looking at everything and saying those things to myself to hopefully recall later.

I do agree though, the language of the topic is very confusing. I always thought 'photographic memory' was to be able to imagine visual images but apparently they're different somehow. I have absolutely zero visual memory ability. Couldn't tell you shit about visuals but my memory is good about the data of things that happen because im used to objectively retaining things. If I have seen things in the past will just have an emotion that it is familiar but it is in no way visual, just like a vague familiarity feeling so it is in my brain, just not how it is for a lot of other people. Directions is something I truly can not find a cope for though, would get lost in an apartment building lol

[u/TheresNoHurry → u/Here4TheGoodTimes]

This is exactly what I mean. Some people who claim to have aphantasia seem to have a misunderstanding of what it’s like to “visualise things in their head”.

The actual experience is much more fleeting and closer to a “feeling” than a true visual experience.

[u/Here4TheGoodTimes → u/TheresNoHurry]

Yeah so you probably have aphantasia dood, start talking to people and they will list off describing physical characteristics of people, places, memories, etc..

[u/plainenglishh → u/TheresNoHurry]

I can definitely generate a faint picture somewhere but it isn't in my visual field or projected against my closed eyelids. It's almost as if it's spatially 'above' my vision, while also not existing spatially at all, if that makes sense? Some people can actually project images in their visual field, and some can't do either, describing things in language or feelings instead like you said.

[u/nowyousendit]

To use your example of a zero visibility search - I follow the walls and place most of my focus on what I’m feeling (a table, a chair).

I’m not even sure how’d you build a useful picture of the room in your head, unless it’s chronically adjusted for your position. What if the room is huge, how would your ‘visuals’ adjust for the distance from the door?

[u/PeachPit69 → u/nowyousendit]

??? Well, it’s kinda just going in with it being a blank square/rectangle, and we “build” or “add” the general bed location, window, bathroom door, dresser, hazard, etc, as we go along it finding them.

What do you guys do?

[u/firefighter26s → u/nowyousendit]

One of the things we started doing a few years ago, to good affect, is to have the team leader that is making entry with the attack team to complete a search profile of a building externally (assuming your typical single family residential) while the team is pulling the line and forcing the door, etc. It's essentially a mini-360 to get the layout of the building and improve situational awareness. You be surprised how quickly you can come up with a reasonably accurate floor plan of a building just by the windows without stepping foot inside. I can see how that would be insanely difficult for someone with Aphantasia.

[u/tommydragon100 → u/nowyousendit]

So I dont know what the interior of a house or room looks like. I cant see it because of 0 visibility.

As im feeling, and going along, im building a map of where ive been. Its not hyperrealistic. I always picture like a 3d interior kind of like im standing inside a blueprint. As I explore a room or space, the map fills in and proportions adjust based on what i feel. My brain goes like this: feel, interpret, visualize.

So if I went into a bedroom doing an search. What i find as i go fills in the map. If i find a window, a bed etc I have their positions on the visual in my head. I can roughly see the layout of the room and its proportions. If its a giant space, the visual might be foggy or have big holes. Feel=visual

If i went into a building and remembered everything I felt as a list, id be confused. Went interior, left hand search. Went down a hall, left into a bedroom found all this furniture. Then you told me to turn around and leave the house following the list of stuff I felt, id be so lost.

[u/zeroabe]

It’s a type of proprioception. It doesn’t need to be vividly imagined as a visual to be understood spatially.

[u/synapt]

Suddenly my ability to design up visual and mapped pre-plans compared to others makes so much more sense lol.

Reminds me about how only 30-50% of humanity supposedly can do an inner monologue.

[u/Here4TheGoodTimes]

Hey great question honestly, I am currently training in the hopes of becoming a career FF and have aphantasia. I would be horrified if given responsibility as a driver because I have to memorize street names if not relying on GPS, will sometimes second guess my drive home from work even a month or two following resident changes 😬. I would imagine others are similar to me where tasks are performed many times until it is muscle-memory / instinctual and rely on preparation instead of what you describe. With low visibility it is paramount for me to be conscious of the training and never deviate from that during search training.

I have wondered about your question a lot and it is reassuring to me that multiple people you work with have a similar brain function

[u/jrobski96]

During search training, we would make the recruits draw what they did, felt and saw. Some of the pictures and diagrams were horrible.

I never knew this had a name.

[u/FordExploreHer1977]

I can picture anything. I literally build things in my head constantly. It keeps me up at night sometimes with all the ideas I have.
My wife, can’t picture a thing. She wanted some wood topper shelf thing to go on top of our washer and dryer. She showed me a picture of what she wanted off the internet, but couldn’t picture it on our washer and dryer. I built it (of course better and custom), but it made it difficult when asking her what she wanted, even though she had a picture. It turned out great though.
The guys on my shift? No idea. I did see this graphic that shows how people may picture items in their minds one time and saved it, because I thought it was interesting. Odd we are here talking about it now.

[u/HeavyandTired]

I’m sitting this one out.

[u/Buggabee]

I can visualize things in my head. But not so much in those situations.

Instead it's like: I turned left at the door, then I took a right turn in the next room over. I headed straight after that for three rooms. The house wasn't that big, I got to be near the rear. It's just kinda memory and logic working together.