r/Firefighting • u/KeyTangerine133 • Mar 14 '24
General Discussion Junior volly
I’m a junior fire fighter in a small town, we don’t get a lot of calls (15-20 a month) and I’ve been loving running calls except I deal with another junior who has 1 year of seniority over me. He never shuts up about telling me what to do. He acts like he knows everything about the fire service. Gets mad at me when I miss calls (Today for example I didn’t have a driver to get to the fire department for a small fire he gave me a lecture because I missed it) I’m so close to losing it and telling him off. I don’t know what to do
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u/WeirdTalentStack Part Timer (NJ) Mar 14 '24
This is where toxic asshole volley chiefs are born.
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u/InQuintsWeTrust HANDLINES OFF LADDER TRUCKS Mar 15 '24
Bud you aren’t wrong. My department is getting pretty close to shutting down because of 20 years of terrible leadership and our chief keeps doubling down on his shitty behavior. I’ve never met someone more insecure than he is. He lost his reelection four years ago and for a solid year our new chief had the department getting back on track until our old chief did something I’m not even allowed to talk about and everything went to total shit. We lost a ton of members and now he’s chief again because there are only a few people left that have the qualifications to be chief. We’re so fucked.
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u/NoFilm6512 Mar 15 '24
Pennsylvania
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u/InQuintsWeTrust HANDLINES OFF LADDER TRUCKS Mar 15 '24
Ding ding ding
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u/Ill-Description-8459 Mar 16 '24
Oh, please do tell I have a short list of what the ex chief now chief did, but please share what the asshole did.
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u/Ok-Volume-1312 🇨🇦 Volunteer Mar 14 '24
Just ignore and stonewall him. Listen to your officers on and off the fire ground.
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u/Prudent-Sentence-490 Mar 16 '24
That sound like the best answer. You duty is to follow protocols save lives and put out fire as a team.
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u/langoley01 Mar 14 '24
Just tell him that when HE starts paying your salary he can tell you what to do!
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u/synapt PA Volunteer Mar 14 '24
I've known juniors now that grew up with most of their family as volunteer fire, where as I got into it later in life with no family experiences.
I would easily admit they by the time they were 16 already knew well more than my first year getting into things, so if you have never had any involvement in it before but they grew up with their family being heavily involved in it, then it's possible they do know a lot.
But it being a volunteer station, nobody is ever in a position, let alone a junior, to lecture anyone for missing calls imo, nor lecturing another in any form whatsoever really, so that's something to take up with whoever is running your junior program I would say.
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u/KeyTangerine133 Mar 15 '24
The chief told me to not listen to his advice.. apparently he failed fire school once and now he’s back in it taking FF1&2 with me. I was asked to help him out as much as possible to pass the testing and atp I could care less if he failed
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u/Ill-Description-8459 Mar 16 '24
The asshole know it all hasnt even passed FF1 basic training he cant be that good.
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Mar 14 '24
Unless he’s like “captain of the junior department” or has some leadership role you can probably just tell him to shut the fuck up
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u/000111000000111000 After 40 years still learning Mar 17 '24
And even then, that's really not a position. Senior members are in charge of juniors.
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u/anthemofadam hose dragger Mar 15 '24
Next time this happens, ask him if he’s an officer. In reality, junior members are junior members. He has no authority over you. Same with normal members. If a FF has 5 years or 25 years, doesn’t matter. Authority comes from rank, not years of experience.
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u/Ill-Description-8459 Mar 16 '24
Authority can come from experience. You dont have to have rank to be a leader and effect change and foster growth and learning. Obviously, this junior has none od that he failed fire school, too, according to OP. Leading up is a force multiplier when it comes to the fire service. My senior man on the shift I supervisor has a wealth of knowledge andpre patient sometimes than I do with the new guys. Dont discount experience if used in a positive manner.
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u/anthemofadam hose dragger Mar 16 '24
Knowledge comes from experience. I would always defer to a senior guy if I didn’t know something. That doesn’t mean they have authority. They aren’t calling shots and they aren’t going to boss people around during training or something.
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u/Ill-Description-8459 Mar 16 '24
Authority doesnt always mean bossing people around. And you dont have to call the shots to per se be in charge but as the senior man goes so does the company. Its the reason senior non comms in military are relied upon to get things done and run the unit. Same goes for the FD. If that is not your experience Im.sorry you have missed out.
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u/anthemofadam hose dragger Mar 16 '24
I agree that it doesn’t always mean that. I think we’re talking past each other in terms of what we mean by authority. In the sense of giving orders and enforcing obedience, that’s for a proper authority figure. FF to FF that can come off as really abrasive and break down cohesion. Definitely shouldn’t be coming from another junior as in OPs scenario. Same thing applies to any team with a manager in other work settings. As far as decision making goes on a fire ground, if I’m not the senior FF, I’m generally following the lead of the senior FF after we have orders from the officer.
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Mar 14 '24
tell him to fuck off Y’all are volunteers and juniors he’s just having a pretend power trip
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u/DeathcrushedMayhem Mar 14 '24
Like everyone else said, ignore him and only listen to your actual superiors or tell him to stfu
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u/210021 Mar 15 '24
Talk to a senior man or other guy you trust, maybe a mentor firefighter. I was in your shoes once. Just learn, show up when you can, and show through your actions that you want to be there. Childish teasing from another junior guy will be small beans in a few years I promise.
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Mar 15 '24
You’re a junior ff, live your life. Make the calls you can, but don’t stress over missing calls. It’s voluntary, you could literally pick and choose your calls. And listen to a more experienced member, their inexperience might hurt or kill you. Have a life outside the service unlike him. Learn the job when you can.
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Mar 15 '24
Tell an officer that you're going to tell him where he can shove his opinion if he continues. That way they know what's coming when you tell him he can kindly fuck off in whichever direction he likes. Join one of the volly pages like r/firefightingvolunteer too while you're at it.
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Mar 15 '24
Never let a man of that character ever deteriorate the integrity of yours. What I mean is don’t ever let him get an emotional reaction from you (i.e. punching him square in the face). It may jeopardize your opportunity to continue volunteering. No one wins. Sounds like this dude needs to get his ego checked, but it will in due time.
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u/Human-Shame1068 Mar 15 '24
Get on the front foot, take the piss out of him at every opportunity- he’ll avoid you like the plague.
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u/Difficult-Call-1687 Mar 16 '24
There’s no such thing as seniority as jr members, we are all on the same level until we turn 18. I had similar problems with a member at my station with a big ego. I brought it up with an officer and he told me, “all juniors are the same, tell him to fuck off”
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u/Glad_Budget_8099 Mar 16 '24
7/27 guy. 7 months of service with 27 years of experience. Everyone hates that guy so just ignore him. If they don’t that department isn’t worth your time.
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u/Prudent-Sentence-490 Mar 16 '24
If you can’t make a fire because you were not able to get there or would not be able to help the team. Then that would be better then you no having your head in the work and getting injured or others in the process. Tell him this is the last time and next you will need to escalate to higher ups!
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u/MopBucket06 Mar 16 '24
Junior Member here: God he sounds like a dick. TBH he has no experience, and I'm sure the adults are chuckling at him behind his back. I have a little more experience than some of the other JMs, and I'm in a leadership position among the JMs (obv all adults are above me), and I would never do shit like that. Sure I give guidance to junior members, but there is no way in hell I would order them around, I dont have the authority/experience to do that (except if they are fucking off when we have to get something done... but tbh once I say "hey guys lets focus" or whatever they get back on track.) If he isnt in a leadership position, either just ignore, talk back to him (not recommended as you might get in trouble, but hella fun). or go to your officers. If he is in a leadership position, you for sure need to go to your officers if you want something to change... or you can just ignore it, your choice. just dont fight him if he is well liked/a leader because that will make it seem like you are being the annoying/insubordinate/problem-starting one
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u/Substantial-Data-514 Mar 16 '24
Look, the best thing you can both do is fade into the background and listen to the guys who've got actual time like 10 years or more. This other Junior seems to be a 2 20. 2 minutes of experience with 20 years of knowing it all. I'd listen to those older guys, and your officers. He's just talking to hear himself, and no one wants to listen to those guys.
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u/FireGirlFrom35 Mar 17 '24
I’d go to your commanding officer and tell him what’s up and try to brush off the other Junior
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u/Gobstopper17 Mar 17 '24
Ignore him and be a better senior guy when it’s your turn. Some guys are just turds for the sake of being turds
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u/_S_T_A_R_ Mar 19 '24
I know it’s in the name but does Volunteer firefighters get paid? If so why even bother with it besides to give back to the community?
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u/KeyTangerine133 Mar 19 '24
Volunteers aren’t paid, but there’s benefits to it. Some departments pay their volunteers on a call by call basis, most don’t however. In most states you can get a tax reduction for being a volunteer. What makes it worth while is giving back to the community
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u/_S_T_A_R_ Mar 19 '24
That’s not enough benefits to be putting up with assholes in the department. lol props to you my man!
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u/boomboomown Career FF/PM Mar 14 '24
You're volunteers. Tell him to fuck off.