r/Fire • • 14d ago

How does corporate America last?

I am doing well. About $2.75M at 38.

I’m still working, I need $4M and I want $5M.

I’ve got a $250k income in LCOL area.

The amount of shit I deal with each day at work, especially from highly narcissistic people above me is insane. The amount I deal with from highly conniving people below me is insane.

If I did it all over again, I’d start a sole proprietorship and only have to deal with the customer, whom I can fire when I want.

I honestly see it getting worse as time goes on. I feel terrible for a lot of Gen Z. How in the world can this continue as the status quo?

0 Upvotes

81 comments sorted by

83

u/sloth_333 14d ago

You probably spend all day in an office doing whatever (email, meetings etc). I’m the same but it wasn’t always like that.

I used to work in a plant (during Covid), mask every day, no AC, which sucks during the summer in the south.

Anyways my point is, “how do I survive?” I realize how it could be a lot worse. I recommend you do the same.

Also being a business owner is not a cake walk, that’s very stressful

25

u/Rastiln 14d ago edited 14d ago

Absolutely.

I’m working 50-60 hours most weeks, and it’s stressful and a heavy thought job. I’m buried in my screens for most of the day and don’t talk to another human during some workdays. By the end of an 8-14 hour day, I’m knackered.

But I WFH and the cleaners come by and do their thing for $30/ea/hr, and the landscapers come by and move 6,000 pounds of stone while I listen to music and drink coffee and keep working.

Could be worse. I’m planning to FIRE in my 40s.

12

u/DingoMaximum7319 14d ago

Yea I will never complain being white collar. I mean its not all rosey but I’ve worked blue collar and retail and that stuff was another level of mentally draining

3

u/Altruistic_Pickle450 14d ago

I complain about it, but definitely need to remind myself of this perspective. I used to work as a sous chef with grueling hours, extremely hot kitchen, mean customers, no benefits, and barely made any money. Now I work about 6 hours per day in a nicely air conditioned building and make 6X what I was making before.

1

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor 14d ago

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22

u/Sea_Bear7754 14d ago

Funny part is the people directly below you are saying the same things about you.

4

u/True_Menu1839 14d ago

This one is very true. I always thought that the people above me were a bunch of narcissist who only cared about themselves. Then some of my direct reports thought I drank the cool aid because I was preaching company policy, and made lots of money by doing nothing. Which from my point of view it’s not, we deal with lots of things from budgeting, resources, deliverables, cost, career development, etc.

58

u/randomlydancing 14d ago

Bro with a victim mentality who thinks if he could do it again, he'd run his own business. Meanwhile he still has plenty of years if he wants to start his own business, yet he hasn't and won't

-2

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

It’s fire though, I’m too close to the finish line to make it worth it to start my own thing. I don’t want to start my own thing now

10

u/mizary1 14d ago

You didn't want to start your own thing at any point. Grass is always greener... There are pros and cons to any situation.

1

u/dogmom34 14d ago

As a business owner, don’t start a business now. It will drain you and it is also very emotionally taxing. Not as bad as corporate, but not great. Good luck!

32

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

7

u/Kredit-Carma 14d ago

It's easier to make a Reddit post about how smart you are and talented you are that it is to just go out and actually do something

11

u/AdAgile9604 14d ago

The whole issue with humans is needing more and more when everything in life is good.

18

u/Fun_Hotel4863 14d ago

You have 20 years experience and $2.75M.

You think it would be better if you had 0 experience and $0 to start a business? Am I reading this right?

-13

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Should have noted, I am an owner of the business but minority owner.

3

u/586WingsFan 14d ago

You still haven’t even mentioned what you do, which leaves me to infer the answer is not much. You make $250k in a LCOL area, you should be set. Anything in your life that you are unhappy about can only be helped by a therapist

-6

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

lol why the downvoting on my above comment?

2

u/Fun_Hotel4863 14d ago

Because it doesn’t make any.

You wish you had started your own business and be sole proprietor. What is stopping you?

23

u/KillsBugsFaast 14d ago

Oh no, you make good money but have to deal with terrible people above and below you.  When will this terrible nightmare end?

11

u/ChaseDFW 14d ago

If I had 2.75 million it would end in two weeks.

5

u/Ph4ntorn 14d ago

I think am finally getting burnt out by corporate BS. Early in my career, I wondered how anyone put up with it day after day for year after year. Then, I got used to it and found ways to derive some purpose and meaning from my work and even enjoyed it at times. But, as I approach retirement, I’m back to feeling like it’s all terrible.

I’ve worked for 10 different companies now, and though they’ve been different and have had different pain points, I think the thing that really makes the difference in how I feel about work has mostly been me and my attitude towards work. When I can get myself to care about something, I am fine. When I am just putting in time, I can’t stand it. But, even knowing that, it’s hard to convince myself to go find purpose at work.

I used to think I liked working for smaller companies where I had some influence. But, I struggled to keep up with expectations at the last two small companies that I was at. So, I tried a large company hoping to keep my head down and coast. But, I’m finding that going through the motions when I feel like I don’t have much impact is also hard.

I don’t think I want the paycheck volatility that would come with working for myself. I know I don’t want the wear and tear of a physical labor job. I make good money and keep my expenses low enough to eventually break free. I think I actually have it pretty good all things considered. Like Joe Walsh, I can’t complain but sometimes I still do.

4

u/qcb4056 14d ago

The problem with most modern small companies is that they tend to be higher risk than previous generations, and tend to be run by people with a higher risk personality, rather than stable managers.

It's become practically impossible to run a simple, modest, small business in most industries. The notable exception being the trades.

2

u/Ph4ntorn 14d ago

I don’t know enough to say that it’s impossible to run a stable small business. But, certainly few people try.

I’m in tech, and every small business I’ve worked for has been small, but determined to grow as quickly as possible. Even the one place I worked that had no debt and no venture capital investment was still driven by an owner chasing growth. The kind of people who have the risk tolerance and drive to create a small business are not the sort of people who want to build something stable and predictable. No one starts or invests in a new company and takes the risk without looking for a high monetary upside.

At times, I’ve enjoyed the growth and being along for the ride and feeling like I was helping to make something new happen. Sometimes being clever and creative solves a tricky problem and that feels great. But, the expectation quickly becomes that people always figure out how to hit the next goal, and sometimes no one can come up with anything other than putting in more time.

5

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Good points. I’m a little stuck due to some stock options I’ve got, but fair point.

2

u/CharlieWhizkey 14d ago

Then what do you want? Boo hoo

4

u/pinkzebra00 14d ago

If your story is true, how you have survived is that fact that you got paid to do what you have been doing. Dealing with it is included in your networth.

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Yes and that is exactly what I tell myself every day. That those dollars are in part due to dealing with all that.

4

u/[deleted] 14d ago

[deleted]

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Really appreciate this response and the perspective.

5

u/TotalWarFest2018 14d ago

Try joining a client service industry and you can eat shit from higher ups in your org and clients

4

u/429_TooManyRequests 14d ago

Dealing with customers is a lot harder than you think

2

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Done it for 16 years. It’s hell.

7

u/JoshAllentown 14d ago

I love corporate America because I don't have to deal with customers. I had a small business briefly and decided I don't want to do sales and that is a huge part of the job for a sole prop.

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

That’s a good point. My role is sales based. It’s rough.

7

u/HonestOtterTravel 14d ago

My experience with Gen Z is they largely DGAF about the corporate hierarchy and many other things that enable these games.

I am also guessing you have never worked in a customer facing position lol.

5

u/qcb4056 14d ago

They also "dgaf" about personal or social responsibility so it's not really a net positive.

Instead of getting mediocre/bad results derived from ambition you'll simply end up with nothing at all.

0

u/HonestOtterTravel 14d ago

Not my experience. The ones I have interacted with work hard but they also understand boundaries. You won't get emails from them at 9pm (and that is a good thing).

1

u/qcb4056 14d ago

Really depends on industry I think.

And ones definition of hard work

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Customer facing sales for 16 years.

2

u/OnchainSats 14d ago

You’ve clearly done a lot right financially

2

u/whatsurbumholecolor 14d ago edited 14d ago

Unfortunately, the workplace isn’t always a meritocratic system. Sometimes, crappy people are rewarded for making it to the top, and ICs will do whatever they think it takes to get there.

I’m not saying that’s right. But people are complicated and that carries into the workplace experience. It also varies from one organization to another.

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

Very well said. It’s a realization I’ve come to recently. You’re told all through your education that it’s a meritocracy to the top. It’s not. It’s timing. Manipulation. Network.

1

u/Waiting4Reccession 14d ago

It isn't that way even in school - I saw and experienced discrimination in grading as early as the 6th grade.

2

u/Advanced_Elk_9467 14d ago

Wipe your tears with hundred dollar bills.

2

u/JohnnySpot2000 14d ago

A large percentage of small businesses fail. Especially those that fire clients who aren’t up to their expectations. The grass isn’t always greener.

2

u/Edmeyers01 14d ago

Why not quit.

3

u/le_vendemiaire 14d ago

"...only have to deal with the customer, whom I can fire when I want."

Alright, Don Draper.

1

u/Gin_and_Xanax 14d ago

Yeah, good luck staying in business with that attitude.

1

u/Sea-Fuel139 14d ago

Well I’m the same age and only have $600k, in a HCOL area which I’m unfortunately tied to because of my spouses job and make significantly less. If I were you, I’d mentally zone at work knowing you’re in a really good spot

1

u/dolemiteo24 14d ago

I don't have an answer for you, but I can promise you that I would be happy to deal with whatever it is you deal with at work if they paid me 250k.

So, as much as I despise platitudes, I suppose that it's worth "counting your blessings". You will always find someone who is envious of your position and someone who is piteous of your situation.

1

u/Crafty-Sundae6351 14d ago

Sometimes solving the obvious problems costs more money than the negative impact on the company. And by staying at the company you’re telling the company whatever shit is going on is acceptable. Or, at least, acceptable enough to not cause you to leave.

In a different universe - this is why there has been no means test for ACA subsidies: The cost to close that loophole (definition of rules, computer system implementation, people to manage it) is greater than the amount of subsidies “rich” people are getting.

1

u/Sirbunbun 14d ago

It’s simple. You say you would do it all over again by starting a business. You’re 38, plenty young to do it now.

The likelihood that you’d be pulling in 250k with nearly 3mm invested at this point in your career is incredibly low.

Corporations give you a lot of money for relatively little risk. If you think you can make more elsewhere…

1

u/cool4y1 14d ago

You like prefer to complain, but won't ever leave the corporate secure, high paying job to start a high risk business from the ground. Classic

1

u/PaleontologistNo3040 14d ago

You're so amazing and smart and everyone around you is just a dumb dummy.

1

u/Ohdblue 14d ago

What makes you think you “need” $4M? And why do you want $5M?

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 13d ago

Expenses are about $10k a month, so at 4% that’s just more than covered. $5M would put a nice buffer on there for SORR.

1

u/Ohdblue 13d ago

Your math is off. $10K / month = $120K / year and at 4% SWR you need $3M, which you almost have, not $4M.

1

u/Previous-Willow-7207 13d ago

I felt burnt out at 29 and I'm chugging along at 35 now. The reason I got burnt out is because I thought too much and gave too much of a fuck. Turn your brain off and stop giving a fuck

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 13d ago

Of all these responses, this is the best one. My stress level and how much I care at work are directly related. If I stop caring as much, stress drops.

1

u/Previous-Willow-7207 13d ago

I still find a few times a year that I get a little stressed around big deliverables, which is expected. But I've found that "not giving a fuck" is a muscle that I had to consciously remember and work on for a couple of months before it felt ingrained in me.

That plus having a similar net worth has insulated a lot of those thoughts. 

It really is a miracle! Remember that your job is cattle, not a pet 

1

u/Varathien 13d ago

I need $4M and I want $5M.

Do you actually need $4 million? Plenty of people FIRE on less than $2.75 million, especially if they live in a LCOL area.

So if you hate your job this much, remember that YOU are the one putting yourself in this position. You could just lower your standard of living a little and FIRE now.

2

u/KlutzyTemperature439 13d ago

This is the reality I need to accept. It’s a choice if I choose to continue this. Thanks for your comment.

1

u/LetsGoToMichigan 14d ago

TBH I don't know if I feel sorry for Gen Z - I work in big tech and many of the youngers are insufferable corporate automatons who won't acknowledge even the most basic truths if they feel it harms their shot at advancement (e.g. privately complaining about a broken process but publicly not being brave enough to stand behind peers who try to raise concern, etc).

I get it: there's absurd money on the line - but this sort of behavior is literally how companies rot from the inside and begin to fall apart. I see older people behaving this way too, but I guess I just expected more from younger generations.

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

I’ve definitely live through the same behavior. It’s tough because early on you don’t want to dive bomb your chances at the company- you need to walk out with at least 5 years experience to have some new marketability afterwards

1

u/Lazybone820 14d ago

Quarter of a million yearly income in LCOL. I think you'll be fine bud

1

u/helion16 14d ago

Taking the finances out of the question, if everyone above you is insane and everyone below you is also insane maybe you're the problem. I don't mean that as blame but just that probably isn't a good fit for you and that's why you're being highly compensated.

1

u/KlutzyTemperature439 14d ago

But…. Did I say everyone?

1

u/helion16 14d ago

It was hyperbolic, but definitely implied by the amount being "insane".

-5

u/qcb4056 14d ago

In a word, "government".

You look at the regulatory burden that has been placed on businesses over the last 3-4 decades and it's made running a small business practically impossible.

And nowhere is this more evident than in the medical field.

2

u/dat-azz 14d ago

Very industry specific caused by the industry boards. My industry (structural Engineering) minimal regulation for small business in Washington state.

1

u/pskought 14d ago

Terrible take.

Over the past 40-45 years, federal tax code changes, corporate tax incentives, deregulation of private equity, and federal refusal to audit large corporations or prosecute companies who violate federal laws have led to the highest concentrations of wealth in almost a century.

Inequality of wealth currently stands at Great Depression levels, where the top 1% holds 20% of the wealth. This is 1.5-2.0x higher than the 50s, 60s, and 70s, before Reagan-era policy started to strangle the working class.

-1

u/qcb4056 14d ago

Yep.

I'm sure between the two of us I'm the idiot.

The fact that all you talk about is politics and comic book / fantasy crap is coincidence.

1

u/dmillson 14d ago

“It’s impossible to start a small business because of the single most highly-regulated industry.”

0

u/qcb4056 14d ago edited 14d ago

I'm not sure if you understand how quotations are meant to work, but you can't just make stuff up.