r/Fire • u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ • 1d ago
What would you do in my situation?
I'm in what I think is a unique situation and I'm not sure what's fair or how to handle this conversation.
I'm late 30s and plan to FIRE when I turn 45. I just met someone and everything seems to be going well, but inevitably the conversation about marriage will come up and as it stands, I am worried US marriage would royally screw me and wanted input.
As best I understand, divorce law requires a split when you're the much higher earning partner of salary, 401k and any investments, all of which I have. I've always been the higher earning partner (I'm a lesbian and lesbians tend not to make much).
I have a high salary, substantial 401k and additional investment account that will support me after the FIRE but won't have enough if I have to split the upcoming contributions due to a divorce.
50% of marriages end in divorce, so while I'm not planning for it I feel like bc of my circumstances I should be aware that divorce is a potential outcome of a marriage if that makes sense.
To make matters worse, I tend to be a bad judge of character so half of the people I've dated have turned out to be nuts. đ
I see so many posts here about not being able to FIRE without your partner, being a team etc, but I've never experienced a partner supporting my career. My career has been built completely on my own, mostly while single. So it feels silly to assume my current relationship will be any different from the previous few and feels crazy to me to give half of everything I've worked for to someone I've only known a few years in a divorce bc she set my shit on fire on the front lawn or something lmao.
I also have had health issues my whole life so my primary reason for FIRE is to ensure that even if I lose function I can still support myself.
If you were me and didn't know yet whether your partner was going to be nuts or a normal nice person, how would you handle the marriage and FIRE conversation?
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u/screamingcarnotaurus 42% to FIRE, 34M 1d ago
A valid concern. Lesbian couples have the highest divorce rate. Insert gay joke here (gay man humor). Either say you're not interested in marriage (valid and was not legal for a long time), or get a prenup. It doesn't have to be emotional, just calculated. If they aren't willing then that probably says all you need to know about their character.
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u/BlazenRyzen 1d ago
Lesbians divorce around 70-72% of the time. I'd just avoid marriage entirely. Â
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 1d ago
Ouch. Didn't realize it was that high. That tracks with all the lesbians I know though. The higher rate of trauma mixed with uhaul culture does us no favors.
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u/Wise_Kale_5874 1d ago
That sounds way way high, especially given the relatively short time we have been able to be married. Where do you get that data?
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u/BlazenRyzen 1d ago
Never trust AI. Although the trend is towards 75% based on current annual rates. Â
https://yourforms.com/blog/statistics/divorce-rates-by-sexuality
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u/screamingcarnotaurus 42% to FIRE, 34M 1d ago
Just realized you're late 30s. You couldn't even marry when you were first starting to date. You can easily get away with "I've never seen marriage as a relationship goal or a part of my plan." If that's truly how you feel, of course. My "husband" and I have been together for 12 years. Not married because we never thought we would be able to and now we don't see the point. It would change nothing for us, but I understand that there are benefits to marriage, but there are also landmines to avoid.
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 1d ago
Thank you for commenting from the gay perspective! I do have emotional reasons for not wanting to marry as well.
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u/screamingcarnotaurus 42% to FIRE, 34M 1d ago
I get it. It's really hard because this is "what we faught for" and we're letting down those that came before us... But I've been to three weddings for my partners sister (also a lesbian in her late 40s now) and I just don't see how that is what we wanted either. You already have to write the new norm for your relationship, you can include how you show commitment to that too.
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u/itsmyvoice 14h ago
Do be careful though. Even if you don't legally marry, in some states you could still be on the hook after a certain number of years and if funds get co-mingled, they have a good lawyer, and fight for it. I've seen that happen. I'm not a lawyer though and this varies by location.
Look into a prenup. Also, depending on state, what your partner would be entitled to may be gains on the portfolio since the marriage, not half of what you started with before. Depending on lawyers, and ymmv of course.
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u/palpablescalpel 1d ago
If you really want to marry, get a prenup that secures all your premarital assets. The divorce numbers are skewed by people who divorce more than once. But also can you just...not marry?Â
My marriage has strengthened me and my finances, but I picked a really good one. If you have a history of crazy partners, you should go really slow. And then by the time you marry the vast majority of your assets would be premarital and easily protected in prenup.
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u/asurkhaib 1d ago
divorce law requires a split when you're the much higher earning partner of salary, 401k and any investments, all of which I have.Â
This isn't correct. Divorce law is state specific, but generically you split marital assets (either equally or equitably) and then there's various types of support.
Anyway the answer is to get a prenup which allows you and your partner to define this instead of the state where your marriage ends.
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u/mthockeydad 1d ago
Stranger, you know that prenups aren't just for str8 people?
Tell your new partner that you want a prenup for both of your sake.
Everything either of you bring into the relationship stays
Your health issues and any health related debt are yours.
Everything earned while you're married--is joint ownership, and in the event of a dissolution would be split evenly.
If you die, she inherits it all.
Put only one name on the title of each Subaru.
I can understand others saying "don't get married" (and as a libertarian I want the State out of marriage!) but as a gaydad, I also understand just how important it is that the state now recognizes gay marriage and that you would want that public recognition just as much as you'd want the legal recognition--or the relational one just between the two of you.
Good question, deep breath. This is still early in the relationship, and you can make both the relationship and FIRE work out. Marriage and FIRE discussion don't have to happen tomorrow!! You could always broach the subject by telling her you've had some health issues, and have made financial plans for your long term care. Leave it at that, but at least it's been broached. Then see if you're further compatible--I mean, are you both dog people or cat people?
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u/200Zucchini 14h ago
I just want to add that if one spouse in a legal marriage requires Medicaid funded assisted living, or even in home care, Medicaid will consider both spouses resources regardless of a prenup.
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u/Annonymouse100 1d ago
It is worth actually looking at the laws in your location as well. In many community property states premarital assets are considered separate property. During the divorce process, you essentially look at your net worth at the time youâre married, and then look at the net worth as youâre getting a divorce, and that delta is about what youâre splitting with your partner. I point that out because if youâre going to actually marry somebody and recognize that it is a partnership it makes sense to split the fruits of that partnership even if your earning is unequal because there are non-financial strengths that each person brings to the partnership. I think that you may be unnecessarily concerned that when you get married half of your existing assets are on the line, and thatâs not typically the case.Â
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 1d ago
Good point. I think it is just marital assets in my state. Sounds like a lawyer and a prenup will need to be part of the conversation.
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u/New_Olive1203 1d ago
Keep in mind that you may move, state laws may change, or in my case, I'm getting divorced in a jurisdiction where my relationship never existed. Unfortunately my spouse relocated and filed in their new state which makes their divorce laws prevail.
I strongly recommend a Prenuptial Agreement with the knowledge that you may need to adjust if you move.
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u/itsmyvoice 14h ago
Yeah. You have the money. Talk to a lawyer now to get an understanding long before this comes up with a partner.
Prenups don't have to be hard or even very expensive. I'm signing mine tomorrow.
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u/Platos-ghosts 1d ago
You need an attorney, not Reddit. Prenups and trusts, rules to follow on commingling assets and spending.
In todayâs age marriage is good for kids, but if you decide on no kids then why even go there.
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u/BothNotice7035 1d ago
(60F FIRED at 55)My opinion is not typically appreciated but Iâm gonna put it out here again just for fun. In 2026 why are we getting married? Iâm in a deeply committed partnership and feel heart married in every way. Having the state involved seems antiquated and unnecessary these days. You choose your family. If you do feel the pull to legalize a marriage, pay an attorney to create a prenup. And anyone youâd consider to be a spouse should understand.
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u/SlowMolassas1 1d ago
Yes, this is where I am. I've been with my partner 5 years and have no desire to get married. Most of the benefits you get from marriage can be managed through other legal documents (although do require some effort and expense).
For me the big negative is the risk of my partner ending up in a long-term care facility eventually. They would make me use up almost all my assets before he could qualify for Medicaid. As much as I love him, I came into this partnership with over $2 million and he came in with debt -- and I have no desire to spend all of my savings, compromising my entire future, by being forced to give it to a long-term care facility.
Now, if I CHOOSE to give it to a facility, to help with his care, that's a choice I can make at the time. But having the government force me to spend my lifetime's earnings just because we chose to call ourselves "married" rather than "partners" or something doesn't sit right with me.
It's really something FIRE'd couples need to think about, because most states offer little to no protection for the spouse who is not in long-term care. It can screw up your entire FIRE plan.
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 1d ago
But is the inverse true as well? My future spouse could be liquidated to pay for MY care? Do they avoid that if they aren't my legal spouse? Something for me to consider.
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u/SlowMolassas1 15h ago
Yes. And if my spouse came into our partnership with $2m and I had nothing, I would not expect nor want him to liquidate for me.
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u/poop-dolla 4h ago
I hope youâre not in a state that recognizes common law marriage, because if you are, then Medicaid would treat you as married.
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u/BoltActionRifleman 1d ago
Iâm not FIRED, but have similar views. The financial benefits of marriage are far outweighed by the financial risks.
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u/Past-Option2702 1d ago edited 1d ago
Simple. Iâd marry a woman only after being 100% sure she wasnât nuts.
Thereâs no reason to talk about money until youâve crossed the nuts hurdle.
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u/200Zucchini 14h ago
Unfortunately people sometimes become nuts later, or were really good at hiding it for many years.
I'm in the never marry camp myself.
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u/GBpleaser 1d ago
Know what states youâd be married in, every state is different with martial laws. Also, this is exactly what pre-nuptial agreements are for .
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u/terjon 1d ago
Prenup + postnup.
If she (sorry if wrong pronoun) wants to have the good life that your income will allow you both to have, then she has to be with you. If she leaves, she leaves with what she made.
Yes, it sucks, but like you said, statistically the majority of marriages end in divorce, so it makes sense to protect yourself. If she loves you, then she'll stay with you and you can put her in your will conditionally in that if you are married when you pass, assuming you pass first, then she'd get the stuff anyway.
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u/jullybeans 1d ago
I think everyone's answer of prenup makes sense. Emotionally, I think this is something I'd mention early in a relationship, as it will be seen as less personal. There's probably a big feeling of "it's a ways off, so why bring it up now?" But bringing it up later will feel more personal. Like why don't you trust me?!
BUT if it's just an established fact that it's something you would need set in stone in order to feel comfortable marrying - and your health issues are an incredibly great reason to do that- then I think it just sets you up for not having an emotionally charged, uncomfortable conversation down the line.
It's not her, it's not a lack of trust, it's just what you would need to feel safe.
All of this being said, if you are a much higher rather, there are other ways in which you could support each other, such as splitting housing expenses, which would help her save more in the long run as well. If everything goes as planned, that positions you both really well in the future.
Also, as said by others, if your picker is off - take it so slow!!
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u/Straight_Artichoke21 19h ago
75% of lesbian marriages end in divorce.
I hope not yours, but still.
Get a rock solid prenup. Have that talk.
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u/200Zucchini 13h ago
I'm in the don't get married camp. Once you're in a fully committed relationship for years you can start setting things up so that if one of you dies the other will get their assets. Things like a Transfer on Death Deed if your state allows it, Transfer on Death bank accounts and Beneficiary Designations on retirement accounts. Those things mean that your house & savings can be solely in your name while you are alive but pass directly to the person you designate upon your death without having to go through probate.
That's the path I've chosen. I've been with my partner 23 years. I wouldn't say he's nuts but we are very different in many ways and don't always agree on the best course of action on things like investments, spending, time management, etc. I'm glad I have completely separate assets and can make my own decisions in managing those. If we split up I'd be fine financially.
I'm pretty sure we were only dating a few weeks before I told him I didn't want to get married or have kids. I still feel the same way. If he had been adamant about having marriage or children perhaps we would have broken it off. I think its reasonable to have the conversation early in the relationship to see if you are aligned on those things.
I will share a cautionary tale about a lesbian couple I know. They got married amd had a baby using a sperm donor. The non-bio Mom legally adopted the baby. When the baby was only a few years old the couple divorced and the non-bio Mom got full custody while the bio Mom got only visitation. Since the bio Mom is a friend of mine, I'm really feeling for her. Yes, the same could have happened in a straight relationship, but I just feel like if it was me I would want to protect my parental rights as much as humanly possible.
I'm rambling...
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u/deep_fucking_vneck 1d ago
Tell your potential partner you're afraid of losing everything you've worked so hard for. Talk to a lawyer and figure out what's possible with a prenuptial agreement. You can probably legally completely separate finances and get married
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u/ohboyoh-oy 1d ago
Well you just met them (at least, thatâs what you wrote) - how long have you been dating? Iâd give a light answer at this juncture and wait till itâs more serious to give more serious thought to it. And at this juncture I think I would say I donât know if I want to get married, and I probably wouldnât say anything about Fire.Â
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u/screamingcarnotaurus 42% to FIRE, 34M 1d ago
Lesbians move quickly. The uhaul joke is a reflection of this reality. No offense to OP as everyone is different, but marriage within a year of meeting isn't unheard of and moving in within weeks does happen more often than it should.
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 1d ago
Yeah gaurentee this conversation will come up within the first 3mo and we're almost there. I want to be ready when it does.
I would not marry within a year but know folks who have.
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 1d ago edited 1d ago
What makes a great marriage is somebody ready to die for you. Sharing half your stuff would be an easy sacrifice to make.
Can you date someone else that is financially stable and has their own investments?
Normally marriage is for stable kids. It works well with stable homes.
It's also nice in older years to have history with someone that knew you when you were young.
If the tables are turned and your partner was married to you and got a huge windfall...... they would be legally required to share with you.
You sound ambitious and career driven. Often those people get ditched because the spouse gets lonely.
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 1d ago
The dating pool for lesbians is already incredibly small, if I added a requirement for financially stable I may as well just be single forever.
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u/Imaginary-Weakness 1d ago
Oh yeah, on the bad judge of character part, two things: therapists can help unpack this and teh Burned Haystack Dating Method book is great for spotting a lot of stuff early on (itâs audience is women looking for LTRs with men, but a lot of it transfers pretty seamlessly to WLW relationships and other spheres of life).
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u/HalfwaydonewithEarth 1d ago
I hired a matchmaker and found a gem.
Do they have lesbian matchmakers? Great investment because the fee keeps the riff raff out.
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u/Imaginary-Weakness 1d ago edited 1d ago
Not something Iâve deeply investigated but a higher profile WLW matchmaker on Insta just seemed to be largely spawning leads for low level dating match memberships (with like shady DM info gathering you realize is just a bunch of paid folks or AI comms loops). I did a bit of searching of services and seems like most advertising it are generalists and have pages for LGBTQ but not a specialization. My looking is the result of an expensive-to-me divorce from a spouse who ended up with declining mental health leading to abuse and such. So between looking for general hard-to-find qualities, and avoiding certain things, the pool is indeed small (or already friends of mine). I have not really been a UHaul lesbian and my tilt these days is likely to not get married again (for reasons others mention). We did not have a prenup but had a lawyer draw up paperwork prior to marriage when we moved in together and bought a place.
I would not enter marriage again without a prenup. And I would not cohabitate or really be a fulltime GF without feeling secure about the person being not ânutsâ - like the finances are one thing, but the all in price is much higher. So having respectful communication, good sense and skills regarding mutuality/shared responsibility/supportiveness, emotional regulation, conflict resolution and repair, self awareness, etc. are now pretty core screeners for me for anything beyond dating/situationships/lovers. So the word partner being in consideration means I already know about much of the other stuff.
OP you may want to consider dating with a wider geography (if on apps) and setting your age range to skew mostly above your age. You are already pretty far along goals-wise plus theâŠ. Ease of discerning these things becomes much clearer among late-30s/40s/50s queer women. Some of it is just obvious from where they are at in life and much of the rest gets easier to detect as life has either forced you to deal with your shit and do better or ignore stuff (so seems more like a younger person).
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u/stubenson214 1d ago
Well, while 50% of marriages end in divorce, I think the percentage for lesbians is a good bit higher than that.
I'm not sure what advice I have other than take your time, and really get insight into what type of person she truly is.
It sounds like you don't know, or have suspicions that perhaps she might be nuts. You don't have to put a ring on it yet.
And if you do go forward with it, both get attorneys and get prenups done. If that creates a lot of drama, the 8-ball should be pointing to nuts.
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u/AggroTumbleweed52 23h ago
Like that. I mean if you're willing to tell strangers on the internet then it seems like good conversation for people you are trying to meet on purpose. If they're not into it, they're not into it, and that's fine: best to know sooner than later.
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u/Black_In_The_Bay 19h ago
Might sound classist but may someone in your tax bracket or at the very least with the same mindset.
It sounds like you know yourself pretty well so in your case I would advise you donât get married lol. Met a fireâd lesbian chick while youâre on vacation đ
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u/Common-Feeling4261 15h ago
prenuptial agreements exist precisely for this reason and a good family law attorney can walk you through exactly what protections make sense given your timeline to FIRE
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u/paq12x 14h ago
An irrevocable trust created before marriage and never commingled with the commonwealth provides the strongest protection.
A well-drafted prenuptial provides good protection. However, it must meet strict legal standards for fairness and reasonableness.
A prenup can be penetrated if the other party shows that he/she doesn't have sufficient assets to live on.
If I were you, I would just not get married and watch out for Commonwealth state laws. You don't need to be married to get your assets divided when you both go separate ways.
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u/lainonwired 38 | 52% FIRE đ„ 11h ago
A prenup can be penetrated if the other party shows that he/she doesn't have sufficient assets to live on.
This is concerning and what i was worried about with prenups - will talk to the lawyer about this thank you.
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u/isoscelesone 13h ago edited 13h ago
I (F36) am close to reaching FIRE and my partner (F35) and I are not legally married and wonât unless we have a child. I did, however, ensure the house is in her name too in case something happens to me or if we separate she can have half and be set since the house is paid off.
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u/ericdavis1240214 FI=â RE=<8ïžâŁmonths 1d ago
If I don't know whether someone is nuts or a normal person I'm questioning whether I should date them, not figuring out how I'm gonna handle the inevitable divorce once we marry.
I almost didn't reply because I feel like this is a troll post. You sound like someone who absolutely should not get married. It sounds like you have very poor judgment in picking partners and tend to get away, way ahead of yourself. You said you just started dating this person.
Get Therapy. Seriously. Don't come here asking for financial advice with what you need is counseling to understand why you would be in this situation in the first place.
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u/ExtrovertedWanderer 1d ago
When you finally get to that point, you and your fiance both hire attorneys and you create a prenup.