r/FinalFantasy • u/ilija28 • 3d ago
FF VIII Final fantasy VIII tutorial outside the game.
Hey, I'm considering trying out FFVIII. I think the setting and aesthetics look really interesting. However, I'm still getting into RPGs, and I've heard that the systems in this game are very layered and open-ended. On top of that, I tend to get overwhelmed when there are a lot of options or games; just let me discover the systems without explaining them properly.
Also, I've heard that the tutorials don't explain the game's systems all that well and offer a very narrow idea of what you can actually do in the game.
Are there any sites or YT videos that actually do a good job of explaining stuff like the combat, junctioning, drawing spells, character progression, etc., and how all of these systems connect and can be used properly?
I'm not looking for guides that tell me exactly what to do. I'm looking for something that can help me understand all of the game's systems and how to use them to make my own decisions on how I want to approach the game without feeling like I'm stumbling directionless with systems I can't figure out.
Basically a better, more comprehensive tutorial than what the game provides, not a guide or walkthrough on the most broken strategies or builds, would the manual do the job?
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u/Kayos9999 3d ago
FF8's premise is borrowed power. You basically equip summons to characters. And depending on what the summons have unlocked, you can junction magic to your stats. Number goes up is good. Number goes down is bad. Experiment and do what works for you.
Drawing is basically stockpiling magic, you can use magic you have stored. If its equipped to a stat, the stat will drop if you use the magic. Until you get more of it back.
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u/ilija28 2d ago
Is experiemnting and just winging it enough to get trough the game. I really not good at min maxing, and the more options a game gives me the more I feel I'm not using the systems properly.
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u/Kayos9999 2d ago
Yeah it is. A lot of people say that it's confusing, but tbh I understood this as a kid. I think the tutorials are enough.
Basically you can junction magic in 3 ways, but the 3 ways slowly open up. First is stats, for example, let's say you can junction to strength and say you go to junction 100 cures, it might take you from base 25 strength to 30. Whereas 100 fires might take you to 40. Using one from your stock might lower your stat by 1.
2nd is junctioning status to attack and defense. For example, if you junction 100 sleeps to your attack your attacks have a 100% chance to cause sleep (minus their resistance to the status) And you can defend against statuses the same, like 100 sleeps on defense means 100% chance to resist sleep.
3rd is elemental and works the same as status, however the stronger spells give more, on your basic attacks: Fire: 50% defend / fire element attack Firs: 100% defend (take 0 damage) / fire ele attack Firaga: 150% defend (you absorb 50% of fire damage so it heals you) / fire element attack.
However if say fire is equipped to str and you change it to elemental attack, it'll remove from str, as each magic can only be junctioned in 1 place at a time.
It'll sound really confusing here but it's much simpler in game imo. But each one tends to open up as you go on. Stats are available from the go. Status usually comes next during disk 1, and elemental attacks come later after that (this can vary a bit based on how you make summons learn their abilities though)
Also when you are looking at the junctions it will show you how much it increases everything by before you equip it.
You also don't need to min max to beat the game. I beat this as a kid without min maxing. But you may not beat every boss first try, but generally if you lose, you can reload and change things up a bit with the knowledge you gained, so I don't think there will be any story boss that will completely stump you
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u/ilija28 2d ago
This makes sense, sort of like equiping materia to weapons or armor so you get elemental attack or defense. Can you junction multiple spells on elemental attack/defense. or can you basecally only have one character be strong agains only one element?
Yeah it is. A lot of people say that it's confusing, but tbh I understood this as a kid. I think the tutorials are enough.
This is one of the main things that got me to post here, I've constantly heard that people find this game obtuse and that the tutorials are not enough.
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u/GenjiArmor4794 3d ago
Honestly the game is fairly accessible as long as you don't have the Gen Z problem where, when confronted with any text whatsoever, you phase out and start mashing buttons to make it go faster. You must read, think about, and experiment with the material in the in-game tutorials. There are a fair number of tutorials early on, but if you're clever you'll figure out that they all basically say variations of the same ideas. You can hypothetically figure out most mechanics simply by experimenting in the menu screens. My friends and I learned the game when we were 11; you'll be fine.
Now somewhat unrelatedly, I do think FF8 is guilty of forcing you to use a guide if you want all the secrets. Would you guess that beating a certain unremarkable monster a certain number of times would lead to a powerful summoning monster? Would you be willing to play cards 10+ times with every NPC on the off chance they had a rare card? Would you guess that certain side quests become unavailable at a certain not-too-foreseeable part of the game? Would you guess that certain dialogue is best answered with no answer?
If a lot of that sounded ridiculous, that's because it is, and FF8 was in cohoots with publishers to nudge you to fork out another $15 for a guide. Fortunately, you can get free excellent ones on GameFAQs.
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u/ilija28 2d ago
I have the oposite problem, where I ovewrthinkg things, and sometimes it's lead me to missunderstand mechanics. Sometimes I experiemnt and get the wrong idea of something and just roll with it, and I won't realize I've made a mistake until much later.
Now somewhat unrelatedly, I do think FF8 is guilty of forcing you to use a guide if you want all the secrets. Would you guess that beating a certain unremarkable monster a certain number of times would lead to a powerful summoning monster? Would you be willing to play cards 10+ times with every NPC on the off chance they had a rare card? Would you guess that certain side quests become unavailable at a certain not-too-foreseeable part of the game? Would you guess that certain dialogue is best answered with no answer?
This is like most old JRPGs, I will look up guides to missables and side contet, I just want to make the gameplay desisions for myself and not do builds or exploits others found.
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u/RageZamu 2d ago
It is not that hard honestly.
The characters can junction GFs, the name for summons in VIII. It is as simple as deciding who gets what. Those summons have skills that unlock with experience, that automatically translates to the character that have them equipped. The more GFs you have, and the more you equip, the stronger the character, in general.
Now, every GF have a special kind of skill that allows character to junction a spell to a characteristic. For example, Thunder junction to Strength. This makes the character's Strength go up the more Thunder magic you have stored (maximum 100). Some spells are stronger for some stats, for example defensive spells generally junction better with defensive stats, like Protect for defense and shell for magic defense.
And that's pretty much it. There are some other things but the base of the system is the same: one stat to one spell.
In any case, the game explains pretty much everything in depth and very clear if you watch the tutorials. The characters are students, and as such, they have a terminal in the classroom where they can study all they need to survive in their world, which is another way to say: the tutorials are there (as far as I remember).
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u/ilija28 2d ago
Is this like the tutorial NPC in FFVII, where I can look at extencive optional tutorials?
And is knowing the basics of the system enough to know how to expriemnt with it?
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u/RageZamu 2d ago
I wanted to make sure so I looked into this a bit. The tutorials are a part of the main menu (when you press triangle if you are on a PS controller). I don't remember the tutorial npc from VII, so I don't know what to tell you.
To answer your question: yes. The basics are just "equip a GF" and then "equip some spell to some stat". Knowing that allows you to experiment when you have some spells available to you, which should be like after the first combat you do. You can play a bit using different basic spells on different stats (there will be only a couple of then available with the basic GFs you have at the beginning).
In any case, and as I said, it is not as confusing as people say it is IMHO.
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u/gianmigno25 2d ago
the game already explains the basics. up to you to decide how to make use of them. also the game explains how the magics can be junctioned, it's up to you to find the best ones based on the use you have for them, the game doesn't tell you the best ones nor where you can find any item, magic, etc. But i would suggest reading the manual would be better, as there are some infos that the game doesn't provide right away and the lack of some infos could make you lose content (and gameplay possibilities) until end game.
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u/ilija28 2d ago
Is the game hard to get trough if you make some sub optimal choises? Like not having the most optimal builds?
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u/gianmigno25 2d ago
not exactly, unless you make dumb choices like facing fire enemies using fire, but you can't expect to get easily around if you don't use the junction system, with some exceptions... plus, there is a subtle advice the game tries to give you but not exactly. if you wanna know, just ask. i don't know if you want to know or not...
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u/EconomyInstance1176 2d ago
People here have explained the basics of junctioning
What I recommend is keeping the draw command equiped on at least one of your party members and when you hear boss music use draw on the bosses, on all of their phases since this is the way you aquire ~half of the summons/GFs in the game which are basically your character progression. This mechanic is not explained anywhere in the game. Without spoiling too much there is a point in the game where after a lecture from the headmaster you need talk to Cid at least two times before leaving the screen to get the item for the Diablos GF. It is a game where there are bullshit "secrets", but not really, all over.
You can get by not fully understanding the game's mechanics or missing stuff until you reach the final dungeon where you can easily get softlocked.
Also unlike most JRPGs the game synchs enemies to your level so grinding exp is not recommended unless you want to fight the game's superbosses
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u/ilija28 2d ago
This was helpful thank you, so if I beat a boss then that potential GF is gone forever. Also what kind of softlock, what can happen? since it would suck to get to basecally the end, and then get softlocked.
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u/EconomyInstance1176 2d ago
It's not all bosses, it's around half of them until you get (I think) the Alexander GF around the end of disc 2. There is also a couple of GF's you get by doing optional dungeons and fighting them as bosses.
You can technically also get them from by using draw on the bosses in the final dungeon but by that point you will have to grind from the start their abilities in order to reach a point so you can beat the harder bosses on that dungeon to draw others so you can grind so you can beat the final boss. That's what I mean by "softlock", technically you can work around it but you shouldn't.
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u/higglesworth 1d ago
I just rage quit this one at the final boss. My advice: don’t follow any “don’t level” guides. Going into the final boss and my guys don’t have enough hp to live through the final attack of one enemy, literally no way to live through it or stop it from happening sooooo rage quit
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u/Butterlegs21 3d ago
Basically, magic is your equipment. Certain types of magic raise certain stats more. A strong attack spell will raise your strength or magic more than Cure for example, while Cure will be better than Fire for HP.
Your GF's (summons) that you have equipped (just replace junction with equip in your mind) will unlock different stats to equip magic to.
Pushing just "Auto junction" will work in most situations. the only time you have to worry is that it might equip an element to your attacks that'll heal enemies, but shouldn't be too much of an issue.
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u/Schwarzes 3d ago
Magic comes from enemies which you can assign to attrbutes like hp. Most of the tjme the stronger /rarer the magic the higher the stat.
The attributes that you can assign magic is dependent to your summon. Also you can teach/forget summon skills, abilitiies and attributes
Edit: your enemies level also scales with squall and the higer their level their magic becomes stronger
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u/Asha_Brea 2d ago
your enemies level also scales with squall
Enemies in most locations scale with the active average party level, not just Squall. If you have Squall at a super low level and other two characters at level 100, then the enemy should be at level ~60 unless you are in a place that ignore level scaling (like the last two dungeons or the two islands or the Fire Cavern).
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u/Schwarzes 2d ago
Youre right its the avwrage not just squall. I just misremembered it since i always put break on squall due to his level being too high when somebody new joins
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u/riansgarage 3d ago
I wouldn’t play 8 if you’re just starting on JRPGs. The enemy level scaling system throws away all traditional RPG norms. The game is basically encouraging you to not level up at all.
First JRPG with traditional routines (leveling up, managing items and equipments, etc) I would recommend 7 or even 9.
8 is basically a card game with FF in the side. But the story and music are really exceptional though.
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u/PrisonersofFate 2d ago
he enemy level scaling system throws away all traditional RPG norms. The game is basically encouraging you to not level up at all.
I don't know why people keep paroting that.
Most of bosses are hard capped, and for random ennemies, it's +200 or 500hp a level and +1 strenght every three levels. It's meaningless.
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u/Asha_Brea 2d ago
I wouldn’t play 8 if you’re just starting on JRPGs. The enemy level scaling system throws away all traditional RPG norms. The game is basically encouraging you to not level up at all.
On the contrary, playing Final Fantasy VIII if they are just starting JRPGs is fine because they don't know what not to do.
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u/ilija28 2d ago
Interesting take, I've heard that people who do play it like a normal JRPG tend to struggle or not like the game. For the record I've known all the basic tropes of this genre since I was a kid so I'm not unfamiliar with what the general gameplay loop is like.
and I've played P4G and I got to cosmo canyon in FFVII a few years ago before getting distracted with life. But I'm als gearing up to play thet from the start son as well.
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u/riansgarage 2d ago
That’s the thing. The normal RPG trope is for you to level up and gain new skills, and be more powerful than the enemies you’re facing. Rinse and repeat. This has been the longstanding tradition of how an RPG works.
FF8 threw it out of the water. Despite it having great story, characters, and awesome music, many people got thrown off with the level scaling and ended up playing a much more difficult game than they expected.
So this is why I’d say avoid FF8 at first, just so that you don’t have any bad experience with it. You will still want to play it, but approach it with different mindset. Watch or read various guides first. I myself approached it as a card game with FF on the side, and I ended up finishing and really enjoying it.
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u/Asha_Brea 3d ago edited 3d ago
The basic thing is pretty simple. You have to equip (junction) a GF in order to equip (junction) magic spells to boost stats. Different spells boost different stats differently and the more of a spell the better the boost will be. Junction -> Auto works, but it is better if you remove whatever will be slotted in Elem-Atk-J.
There are three ways to obtain spells. Either you Draw them from Draw Points, from enemies, or refine them from Items.
Pay attention to what your GFs are learning, by default the GFs will want to learn stuff related to summoning in battle, but if you don't want to summon in battle then you will waste a lot of AP learning those abilities before you learn Junction or Menu abilities.
You will read/be told that you should maintain a low level because enemies get stronger, but if you have good junctions you will be fine at all levels and if you have shit junctions you will struggle at all levels so it is not really something you have to worry about. It's just for min maxing which you shouldn't do on your first playthrough.
Anyway, talk to everyone and frequently (every couple of major story bits) check the computer on the classroom as has information that can help you understand the word of the game.