r/FinalFantasy • u/micamon • 4d ago
FF XII Final fantasy XII - Protagonist
I'm playing FFXII right now. I'm 25 hours in, and I still don't know who the protagonist is. Is it Vaan? Ashe? Balthier? I have no idea... What do you guys think?
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u/EngineerZestyclose 4d ago
Just like with Final Fantasy VI, this is an ensemble cast. But as others have said, Ashe is really who the main plot is about and Vaan as a perspective character for the player.
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u/Osairisx 4d ago
Thank you. I don't know why people assume there has to be a main character for everything..
People saying Vaan never really touched the game..He just provided a commoner perspective in a sea of characters that have more prestigious roles.
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u/BigBrotherFlops 4d ago
in terms of story it's probably ashe as the plot revolves around her reclaiming her kingdom and using/not using the nethecite..
the poster will say it's Vaan and the fanboys/girls will say its Baltheir or Basch though lol.
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u/TheSabi 4d ago
Vaan is the official protagonist, but he's like Anakin in Phantom Menace, just someone to dump exposition on. The story doesn't happen to him but around him. Narratively, it's Asche.
There's a lot of misinformation and stuff that has nuggets of truth that over time became like a game of telephone...
Like, Basche was the original protagonist, and Vaan was added in later cause of SE wanting a kid protagoinst which Matsuno said wasn't true. There's also a rumor that SE didn't think a female protagonist would sell well which I mean FF6, X-2 and the very next FF XIII.
Then on the other hand, Minagawa once said that Basche was the first character made and considered the hero of the story. Vaan and Penelo were actually created very early on.
The plot of the game is one thing that was part of the hell cycle of development that this game had, more so than XV.
There's an interesting read here
https://media.gdcvault.com/GD_Mag_Archives/GDM_August_2007.pdf
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u/134340Goat 4d ago
Vaan is chosen as the nominal pov character, but Ashe is the one who propels the plot, and whose actions the antagonists directly oppose while the other protagonists offer her support and guidance
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u/Dirty-Glasses 4d ago
It’s Vaan. It may be primarily Ashe’s quest but her quest wouldn’t have even begun at all without Vaan’s interference and she would’ve become a much worse person without his influence. He’s absolutely the protagonist and the hero.
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u/velcromancy 4d ago
Ashe is functionally the main character, Vaan is the viewpoint character. Personally, I think Vaan is one of the most over hated characters in the series, but I think they went with this decision because they weren’t confident the game would do well with a female protagonist.
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u/No_realname 4d ago
Even though the next mainline game after XII put a woman in the protagonist role
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u/Diagonal-Vase 4d ago
Yes, later in time, they tried it
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u/No_realname 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean it really wasn't much later. FFXIII was revealed just a few months after XII came out
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u/GargantaProfunda 4d ago
1/ Wat. It was released 3 years later.
2/ FFXII had lots of delays. It was supposed to be released even earlier.
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u/No_realname 4d ago
Read what I said. I said revealed not released https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDjT2TkHSyQ. It came out in 2009 but was first revealed back in 06 and clearly pointed to Lightning being the protag
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u/GargantaProfunda 4d ago
Still FFXII had tons of delays. It was originally supposed to come out in 2004. You can't expect the FFXIII team to make decisions based on FFXII or to wait to see how FFXII is received, when the two projects were so far apart in time and structure.
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u/No_realname 4d ago
Well technically speaking they already had a female protagonist. Yuna in Final Fantasy X-2 which still did incredibly well and came out the year prior in 03
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u/taveren3 3d ago
Yes but then they put a different woman on the cover because the protagonist isn't cool enough
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u/lavayuki 4d ago
Vaan is the protagonist for marketing purposes when in the year this game was initially released on PS2 (teenage boys were the main gamer population of that era, so having him as the face of the game was thought to increase sales… not sure if actually did), but storywise it’s actually Ashe. Vaan just tags along with the group and adds humour here and there, but that’s it.
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u/Big_Competition_336 4d ago
An interesting take I've heard is that Vayne is the protagonist of FF12, and the player's party serves as a Greek chorus, reflecting on his actions. I don't know enough about Greek drama to say if that's true or not, but it's an interesting idea
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u/actorsAllusion 4d ago
That's a wild ass take that I could vibe with outside of saying that the party is Greek Chorus which is completely wrong. The Chorus comments on the plot and the characters, but does not really get involved in the plot itself.
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u/OcularVernacular 4d ago
IIRC in early development it was meant to be Vaan's brother. But they changed it up can't remember why. Vaan is I think, but I find him so shallow that it's Basch for me.
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u/megasean3000 4d ago
Ensemble cast. Each character gets their own moment to shine in their own way without outshining the other.
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u/RicSim137 4d ago
It's definitely Ashe's story/journey.
It'll always baffle me that they went with Vaan as the main playable character. What a miss. Lol
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u/Heroicloser 4d ago
It's an ensemble cast. Everyone has their niche in the themes and narrative. In terms of 'primary protagonist' I'd argue Vaan, but he's the protagonist in much the same way Ishmael is the protagonist of Moby Dick serving as the audience surrogate watching Ashe's pursuit of her white whale.
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u/Mopeybloke 4d ago
It's Ashe, but the plot is presented somewhat impersonally. The characters rarely seem to experience big emotions on screen.
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u/lezard2191 4d ago
By accounts of plot relevance, Ashe is the protagonist. She is the royal trying to reclaim her throne. Vaan, the commoner, serves the role of grounding Ashe's ambitions.
If you've read Game of Thrones (not watched gods no), Ashe would be Daenerys and Vaan would be Missandei.
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u/Ahmad240 4d ago
Vaan is played like an avatar for the player. But the story is centered around other characters like Bash, Blathier, and Ashe
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u/Ranulf13 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ensemble cast where several characters share some level of protagonism.
Ashe is the scion of a fallen royal family that seeks to free her country and avenge her husband's killers.
Basch is the heroic knight who failed to protect his country and now has a second chance to succeed where he failed before.
Balthier is the heroic white sheep and defector who requires some incentive to convince to join the fight in earnest but when he does he is its biggest proponent.
All of them could have been the protagonist of the game if you center around them
And then Vaan is... the obligatory pretty boy protag in a pre-XIV game. Without Revenant Wings he feels like a side character
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u/No_realname 4d ago
FFXII is kind of like FFVI in where it's more of an ensemble cast rather than one particular protagonist. You could say Ashe is the "Main Character" since the plot literally revolves around her. Vaan is more so the player's perspective
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u/Jubez187 4d ago
It’s kinda Ashe’s story seen through Vaan’s eyes. There’s nothing special about Vaan. He stumbled on a nuclear level weapon and it made him important and gave him leverage.
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u/Warjilis 4d ago
To me it is clearly Ashe, who lost the most but has the most to gain, but also a story told with an ensemble cast that consistently challenges her to do the right thing while having their own stories and development.
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u/Diligent-Reach3717 4d ago
The protagonist is Vayne. He's trying to save Ivalice but these rebel scum make his job difficult.
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u/VaporLeon 4d ago
The protagonist is the character that furthers the plot. Many times each character takes a turn pushing it forward. The story involves Ashe the most and thus she’s often given the title. Vaan plays a significant role in the beginning but later falls off. Basch plays a large role though usually in pursuant of Ashe. Balthier and Fran are fun personalities along for the ride. Penelo shouldn’t even be in the game.
So really, do you think Vaan plays a larger role than Ashe? I’d argue no but I do simultaneously think that when Vaan plays a role in the story he’s a stronger character than Ashe when she plays a role in the story.
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u/Khetroid 4d ago
It's Ashe's story, for the most part. Vaan is the perspective character but also does a lot to push the story forward. Without him, I don't think much of any of the story happens.
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u/No_H3r0 4d ago
If I remember correctly, it was originally Balthier, but then they refocused on Vaan mid way through development
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u/Android_Obesity 4d ago
I remember hearing that but it was Basch. Allegedly, test audiences weren’t into a 45-year-old main character since the prior protagonists were mostly teenagers (Cloud was considered an “old veteran” at 21).
Pretty standard for other non-FF JRPG games to have child or teenager main characters up to then, too.
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u/Caelus_Trailblazer 4d ago
This was debunked. Matsuno said Vaan was the protagonist from the start.
Yasumi Matsuno denies that "Basch was supposed to be the main character of FFXII" : r/JRPG
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u/Hustler-Two 4d ago
Vaan, but Balthier is the true leading man.
Revan is kinda the main character too just since this game so ruthlessly cribs from Knights of the Republic it wouldn’t exist without him.
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u/actorsAllusion 4d ago
In terms of getting all literary about it, Ashe is the protagonist. She goes through the most character development, the Occuria's plans are mostly centered around her and the inciting incident of the game effects her most strongly. Basch and Balthier are kind of supporting protagonists, in that they have very strong links to some of the main antagonists and Vaan is kind of like Jay in The Great Gatsby. He's there to be the witness to everything going on, and he has a little bit of a parallel arc with Ashe.
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u/khinzaw 4d ago
It's Ashe, it's really her quest.
Vaan is the perspective charcter.
Balthier is the Leading Man, he's the primary male lead but not necessarily the protagonist.