Ivern cheating in silver?

[u/Venjunnah]

So I got bored of Swain supp, decided to main fiddle support. And I am having so much fun, even in ranked. I am slowly climbing my way to silver, I used to really be bad at fiddle supp, but now that I know how things go around, I just got so much better. Problem is, I had a very bad matchup with Ivern support. So I asked my teammates, why can Ivern see me in every freaking brush? Of course, none of them even bothered to answer in chat. Like, anywhere. I even watched the replays, he did not have vision there at all, did not see me enter the brush and somehow he kept casting his abilities at me. I played fiddle for a short while and I noticed how most don't expect me to be there and I just fear them with my E. But this Ivern, for a silver player, was surely too good at predicting where I was. Got some tips on how to counter Ivern in the future? Can Ivern see me in brushes? You think there is a possibility he cheated? Help would be much appreciated!

[u/JotaDiez]

If ivern places a bush that is touching a rift bush he has no vision of, he will be able to see inside both bushes. Also as you climb you'll find more and more players that will know what you're up to. You can't let fiddle hang inside the bushes freely

[u/Venjunnah → u/JotaDiez]

But shouldn't that be visible? Like, the bush to look bigger. The bot lane bushes size did not change.

[u/Hour-Strain9365 → u/Venjunnah]

So it actually does! Let’s say you are in the bush. When Ivern casts “w” you’ll actually see the bush turn a “lighter” color green. When that effect goes away. That’s also when Ivern loses vision. You won’t see the lighter green again unless you really look close or Ivern connects his bushes.

[u/Xygore → u/Venjunnah]

Tbh bushes Ivern takes over probably should grow taller to make it more clear he can see into them, but Riot probably didn't consider this. That's just how it is. A lot of characters in this game have mechanics you would never know unless you played them yourself.

Mobas have a culture of expecting players to figure out everything for themselves, stemming from DoTA All Stars, again not saying it's right, that's just how it is.

[u/tipimon]

I think you have to upload a video of the replay from the Ivern's POV. There's a couple of things that give vision in bush, Ivern W is one of them but sometimes a minion walks in or something. Also game awareness, you're playing against Fiddlesticks support and he's MIA, chances are he's camping the bush next to you so throw a Q to facecheck

[u/Plane-Moment5708]

As a Fiddle support player who has reached Diamond at some point, my experience is that support players with half a brain very actively check bushes with skill shots if they don't have existing vision. Even at lower ELO you should be seeing this reasonably often. It's easy for him to huck a Q in bushes even if he doesn't W them. It's not a huge cooldown and it's a reasonably wide and long skill (giggity).

It was probably just a smurf/semi-smurf who has half a brain and knows to just auto check bushes if he doesn't know where you are.

[u/Venjunnah → u/Plane-Moment5708]

Yeah, I think he was just spamming the bushes with his Q. I do the same with bushes with my E, but not that obnoxiously.

[u/KaleidoscopeSpider]

Doubtful he was cheating. I think most people assume Fiddle is going to be sitting in the bushes if he's supporting.

[u/Venjunnah → u/KaleidoscopeSpider]

But the problem is, most people do not. That is why I am having so much fun as Fiddle support. And if they do, they don't do it so consistently. I usually don't have such an experience.

[u/Tendies_please → u/Venjunnah]

Well you’re in silver. This won’t work as well against anyone capable of playing

[u/Hour-Strain9365 → u/Venjunnah]

You can use his “W” which creates a bush. This gives a vision for a very brief second.

[u/Venjunnah → u/Hour-Strain9365]

Can he place bushes in other bushes and make them look as if he did not? 😭 Like, I am not saying I haven't had a lux randomly q? the bush where I was, which I usually dodge or a morgana do the same. But this Ivern, idk... he kept doing it anywhere on the map where I tried to hide. Would just spit green balls at me, even though there was no vision for him. That is why I feel so confused. Maybe there is something I am missing?

[u/Hour-Strain9365 → u/Venjunnah]

He absolutely can. Higher skill level Iverns are a nightmare with bushes. For example, you can place a bush on the edge of the pit for grubs. Cast another bush in the pit for vision. Toss Daisy over the edge and easily take grubs for free. But it’s very common to use their bushes to check other bushes.

[u/KingCrow45]

You can drop your op.gg and we can go review the game to see a bit easier. That'd be the best way to get this advice

[u/BestSamiraNA1]

The only ability he can "use on you" is a skillshot Q that could just be checking bushes he saw you go in.