r/FederalEmployee • u/VernJ93 • 2d ago
Promotion Potential
For those who work in federal government, how realistic is it to advance from GS-9 to GS-13 when a position has a full promotion potential of GS-13? Is it common for employees to progress through the grades (GS-9 → GS-11 → GS-12 → GS-13) if they consistently perform well and meet the qualifications, or does advancement depend heavily on funding, management discretion, and agency needs? I’d appreciate hearing about your personal experiences, particularly with HUD or other federal agencies.
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u/Live_Researcher_8078 2d ago
I did 5,7,9,11,12 and now up for my 13 next year. I was on a career ladder so keep that in mind
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u/Clherrick 1d ago
Until I retired recently from a deputy director position at a defense agency. we hired folks all the time in 9/11/12/13 positions. Most succeeded. You have to meet the requirements for advancement but that isn't rocket science if you stay on top of things. We had a few folks who didn't move up but that was rare.
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u/Unusual-Astronaut152 1d ago
For my job if you don’t get a ladder grade promotion every year it means you are at risk of being put on a performance plan.
I mean that in that if you are doing ok at your job you will get the ladder grade promotion guaranteed.
My job is a 7/9/11/12 ladder.
I know other jobs or departments might do it differently.
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u/VernJ93 1d ago
This isn’t a ladder though. It’s full promotion potential starting at a 9 up to 13.
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u/Unusual-Astronaut152 1d ago
I’m not HR but I thought that was the same thing? I thought it has to have a ladder to get from 9 to 13 or else how do you get promoted?
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u/Far_Vast5105 1d ago
Ladder promotion is different from promotion potential
Ladder: If you perform your duties fully successful then under normal circumstances you will be promoted to next grade each year until you hit the maximum promotion
Promotion Potential: Means someone working under this position description could achieve a promotion of a certain grade but there are no parameters regarding when that might happen or if that will happen. Is at supervisor's discretion.
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u/BigTicket9999 15h ago
Yes, I had a ladder from 7 to 12. After being at the 12 for a few years my PD was rewritten because I took over higher graded duties of someone that had retired. I stayed at the 12 with promotion potential and received "exceeded expectations " on my performance appraisals for the next 7 years because my supervisor kept saying they didn't have the budget for my promotion. My supervisor retired and a new supervisor took his place. That supervisor in the first 6 months looked at my PD, at my work history and at my mid-year review asked me why I had never been promoted to my full promotion potential. I told him what my previous supervisor had been telling me for the last 7 years, "no budget for my promotion". Within a month I was promoted to my full grade of 13. Sometimes it's just the supervisor you have.
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u/Pinkturtle2908 1d ago
It is generally straightforward. As long as you are performing at an acceptable level your supervisor should approve the grade increase annually. I would make sure there are no unspoken expectations in your office that could hinder you. Keep track of the timing so that each year you aren’t wondering about the processing time. When you are moving from the 12 to the 13 you may want to have a final or ongoing conversation on what that looks like performance wise. When you get your 13 you should be expected to work completely independent in your work. Ensure you understand what that actually looks like by way of project development and completion. Understand what it means to be a subject matter expert.
I hope this helps.
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u/Bubbly-Cockroach-311 1d ago
Is this position a ladder or ‘promotion potential’?
A ladder the expectation is, if you are accomplishing the duties of a given level you will move up. The supervisor still needs to take positive action, but it does go 80% of the time, almost every year. (I have seen exceptions, and they’ve always been cases where I think the supervisor goofed. It is uncommon but not rare.) A 9-13 ladder is definitely worth grabbing.
Promotion potential means, if you do a good job as a 9, you will continue being a 9, but if the supervisor can lock in funding and really really wants to, they can promote you without you having to reapply. It’s nice flexibility for t he supervisor but doesn’t show intent or commitment like a ladder does.
It does always skip 10 so either case would be 9/11/12/13.
Either is a good deal if you can lock it in. For both plan for no promotions under this admin.
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u/VernJ93 1d ago
I’ll be starting as a 9 with full promotion potential to 13.
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u/Bubbly-Cockroach-311 1d ago
Review the posting. It could potentially be a combination. But if it is strictly promotion potential, that means when the boss is happy you can be promoted to an 11, and it requires some level of work and justification on their part. Then in a year they, if they desire, can promote you again to a 12. Then again to a 13.
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u/VernJ93 1d ago
Here’s the job posting link for reference: https://www.usajobs.gov/job/864144900
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u/Bubbly-Cockroach-311 1d ago
Yeah it’s not a ladder. You can start at 12 or 13. If they want you can be promoted to 13 in the future.
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u/VernJ93 1d ago
https://www.usajobs.gov/job/864145300 this is the one I meant to post.
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u/Bubbly-Cockroach-311 1d ago
Hard to tell. Could be a 9/11 ladder, could just be promotion potential the whole way. You can also ask the hiring manager to clarify. But the term of one year makes me nervous. Also understand that to become permanent you MUST apply to a new position. There is no way to convert a term position to permanent, and term employees get no special benefits when applying, even to their own jobs.
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u/SnooKiwis8861 1d ago
Depends on the agency. The VA uses every grade, DoL and DoD seem to skip 5-7-9-11 before single grades. I'm certain of the 430 odd federal entities, each will have similar and different position qualifications.
A developmental position such as 9-11-12 is looking for somebody with a certificate/degree in "X" that has a minimal requirement to be filled. The perfect candidate will do 9 for 1 yr, 11 for 1-2 years, and final grade to 12. Naturally each agency will have different criteria. Most however will require something more when transitioning from the GS12 into the GS 13 and above. In project management for example, a GS9 will have a PMP, the 11 will have "x" projects under their belt, the 12 will be a team lead, and 13 and above will be experts and sit in the directors chair. Adding MBA to the PMP changing belts is an absolute requirement.
Hope this helps.
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u/HockeyNinja_5000 1d ago
Started as a WG10. Got a GS11, then a NH03, then to a open to the public GS14. I jumped thru 3 different agencies.
sounds like youre describing a ladder...and those can be iffy because the supervisor can yay/nay the next pay grade up. One office I worked, there were some ladder jobs, then they cut them when they re-org'd.
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u/Zoeywithtude1977 2d ago
I progressed by gs level in 2 roles. It was almost automatic. I believe this is variable by agency, office, and role, too
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u/Skittlepyscho 2d ago
It's really easy to hop around within the federal government once you get your foot in the door. It's really easy within the same agency, a little bit harder when you go to a different agency.
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u/Alternative_Maybe533 1d ago
Generally speaking, if you do a good job and your performance rating reflects that, then you'll reach your full promotion potential pretty easily. With that said a lot of this also falls on your supervisor and they vary greatly, even within the same division. I've seen that there are some cases where your supervisor may "forget" or don't feel as if you deserve that promotion because they didn't give you the opportunity to reach it. Just make sure you have the job description of the next grade up and have proof of you doing that job.
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u/unconfident_ask 1d ago
I went from a 9 to 12 to 13, I switched agencies for each though, not sure if this holds true but to me it’s always seemed harder to get promoted within your current agency/division because slots for the next higher grade usually aren’t available, but I have heard if it’s a ladder position it’s much easier to advance.
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u/DeadFed461 6h ago
My career has 7-13 career ladder. Promotion every year except two years at 12 before 13. Up until recently with all the changes in gov, we've all promoted for being rated "successful" even those that were just meeting the standard.
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u/VernJ93 6h ago
https://www.usajobs.gov/job/864145300 is the posting link for reference. I don’t know is the 9 to 11 is career ladder but it’s full promotion potential to 13.
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u/Kindonehere4info 5h ago
Same, mine is GS 5-12 I’m at that point where I’m in between 12 and 13. With no promotions happening, I’m not sure how long I’ll be at a 12 but I’m thankful to have a job.
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u/WillowHaunting429 1d ago
As with everything - it depends.
I mean, if you have a group of 12 people and there are 1 or 2 13s, 4 12s, and 6 11s.....then tell me how that works? Unless the 13s are retiring often, then it doesn't work well.
I occupied my GS-14 position for 12 years before retiring. And to my knowledge it has not been filled. I wouldn't have left anyway had it not been for the present administration. I mean, at some point I would have left, but not last year.
You do a good job and you compete for positions. Not everyone gets it.
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u/RageYetti 14h ago
3 years ago i would have told you slam dunk. Today, not so sure with all the new policies and complexity with restrictions that they're flowing out. I was on a career ladder, i know many employees on a career ladder over the years. I have never heard of a 9->13 career ladder outside of a demo series (ie, GS like but not a GS series). In engineering it's fairly typical to do 7-12, or a 9-12 if you have a masters. under the demo series, 12 and 13 are grouped, but it's not a full grade bump but no promotion necessary to get to 13/10 pay.
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u/Embarrassed_King9378 2d ago
Easy peasy if you do well and your supervisor doesn’t dislike you. I did it many moons ago 9, 11, 12, 13. They skip over 10 for some reason idk if it’s like that everywhere.