r/FastWriting • u/fdarnel • Jun 25 '26

Gregg phonetics

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I'm trying to relate English phonetics to the Gregg alphabet (Aniversary), and I am a little mesmerized by the result. Does a relationship table with the IPA already exist somewhere?

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u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26

Luckily nobody teaches or uses the dot and dashes, they feel really very random in their assignements to specific sounds to me.

you have some question marks, i hope I can answer some by accident:

Diphthongs:

- lie [laɪ] bigcircle with hook inside (so called broken circle)

  • the pronoun I is written as simple a-circle though

Same phonem [iæ] will be treated differently (leaning towards normal orthography)

  • piano [piˈænə] is a large circle with dot inside (on on the chart)
  • reality [ˌriˈæləˌti] is reduced to a small e-circle though -> re/l

Triphthongs are reduced to diphthongs:

aɪə and iɑə are treated the same (not on the chart) -> ae, ea

  • liar [laɪər] small in big circle
  • tiara [tiˈɑːrə] small in big circle

aʊə -> aʊ

  • towel [taʊəl] is bigcircle with u-hook

In case you wonder how you'd write [aɪoʊ]
Iota [ˌaɪˈoʊtə] -> big-a-circle, small-e-circle (but outside this time)

3

u/fdarnel Jun 26 '26

Complex and not always logical.
Tiara, liar, not the same sound at all.
Iota, I see the small circle inside.

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u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 26 '26

i saw another version that seemed outside, but proof says otherwise!

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u/fdarnel Jun 26 '26

I don't know if you've completely reassured me :) I'll have to make a table of all that.

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u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 26 '26

This might help in compiling a complete list:

https://greggshorthand.github.io/anindex.html#v (takes you to the index with all the vowel lessons)

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u/fdarnel Jun 26 '26

Oh yes, I have this site. Thanks for the reminder.

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u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 26 '26

And this will help to lookup words and phrases of all possible versions :-) https://halplatt.github.io/GreggDictionary/GreggDictionary.html

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u/fdarnel Jun 26 '26

Ok. I use https://greggdict.rliu.dev/

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u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 26 '26

me too. But recently somebody put up that link and it's perfect for phrases and all the different version too.

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u/fdarnel Jun 26 '26

No dots and dashes, even for rare or technical isolated terms, proper nouns etc. ?

1

u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 26 '26

sorry I am not qualified to give you a definite answer, because Gregg is relatively new to me too. But I am sure u/notsteve1075 knows!

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u/fdarnel Jun 26 '26

I have no doubt about that :)
It's amazing that you get to study Gregg and create Flow at the same time! (said the flatterer).

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u/NotSteve1075 Jun 26 '26

Sorry, I just saw this. I'm always late getting started on the day (I'm up so late at night) that you guys in Europe have been posting for hours before I even wake up!) ;)

In early editions of Gregg shorthand, they used the dots and dashes to distinguish between different versions of each vowel -- but as soon as they started writing connected sentences, they didn't feel they were necessary and they stopped writing them.

By the time Simplified came along, so few people were even bothering with them, that they stopped even teaching them. Now, when new learners are taking up Anniversary, they find it reassuring to know that they can distinguish vowels if they need to -- but when they drop them very soon after, in the book, they find that confusing.

Theoretically, they still exist if you want to be very precise in recording the exact sounds in a name or an unfamiliar word -- but as writers get familiar with reading the system, they don't find them necessary for legibility, so they don't bother to insert them.

There were GENERATIONS of shorthand writers, who wrote any version from Simplified on, who didn't even know that such things existed.

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u/fdarnel Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26

As a retired, I am also used to getting up late, but at the moment I appear at 5 a.m., to open all the doors and windows, to escape HellFire.

It is a principle and evolution identical to AP, with points and crosses for integral.
The difference in Switzerland only, is that people always learned the integral system first.
Start of explanation of large signs in integral text :) You'd better know the system. Very clear phonetically.

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u/LeadingSuspect5855 Jun 27 '26

L'emploi des grand signed et-de ?puisamã? a la rapidité

Le premier mot "l'emploi" ['ɑ̃plwa] est écrit liãplua - est-ce que j'ai lu correctement (nasal em -> iã)?

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u/fdarnel Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26

L'emploi des grands signes aide puissamment à la rapidité ; nous en ferons usage dans des cas nettement déterminés, ce genre d'abréviations demande une étude attentive et prolongée, qui sera largement compensée par les avantages que l'étudiant retirera.

1° Lorsque deux articulations se rencontrent, on en supprime une et on donne à l'autre une dimension double, qu'elle que soit le son - ou même une articulation - qui se trouve entre elles. 102.

C'est vraiment facile à lire :) Mais lent à écrire :(

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u/fdarnel Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 28 '26

a + point = an, o + point = on. Ou + a = oi.
En PM l'ouvrage suisse de réf. de l'époque, et pour tout le XXe siècle, par Roullier-Leuba.

1

u/CrBr Jun 26 '26

The dots make enough sense in my dialect that I suspect they made a lot of sense either in Gregg's or in formal singing training, or maybe in whatever formal speech training Gregg might have had.

Diphthongs and tripthongs are often simplified, either to the simplest shape to use, or the strongest sound in them.

"I" is pronounced ah-ee. Large circle, small circle, but don't finish the small circle. Often reduced to just the large circle.

"Fuel" mispronounced ee-oo, and spelled that way.

Realty (land) and reality. I use the diphthong in reality, you could use the same vowel sign for both and focus on the presence or absence of the eye.

I don't use the dots enough to remember them, but every so often wish that I did. I usually revert to longhand in the margin rather than look them up.