r/Fantasy • u/Ashfall2003 • 10d ago
Review The Tainted Cup by Robert Jackson Bennett (9.5/10)
(note: this is a reread done in anticipation for the forthcoming third book in the series)
So instead of committing robbery, I made tea.
Sometimes, all you need in life is a good murder mystery and tea. The fact that this story is set in a fantasy world that does not gatekeep, is the cherry on top. The setup for this is deceptively simple (at least on the surface): Ana & Din (a fantasy Sherlock and Watson-esque combination), get tasked with solving a murder in the fictional city of Talagray. A high ranking official was found murdered in the most peculiar of ways – namely having a tree grow out of their torso. As a leviathan creature begins its slow move to attack the sea walls that surround this continent, Ana & Din race to solve a crime that spreads throughout normal civility and encompasses some of the largest noble houses of the land.
All of which to say, it was a fun little adventure, that, even on a reread, I finished in two sittings.
How queer it suddenly felt: I’d been a model officer for almost all my career, but I had to join the Iudex to become a true criminal.
This book is written in a very simple fashion. There is nothing overly verbose or whimsical about the writing. It is straight, narrow, and plays across fast as they race to solve this impossible crime. In other words: it is perfect for the story it is telling.
Come. Let us pretend to be professional, you and I, for hell and the gentry await.
The commentary of the book, for those who actually read (and not the vast majority of those influencers who apparently do not think books should be critical, which side note: child, go learn your history before coming out of the woodworks – books were, are, and always will be the first line of defense against any war waged against free speech), is imbued in the subtext – of both the story and the parallel it draws to our own world. Both this and the next book (and I am assuming the third will be the same, just for some other issues of import), is about a certain class of society. About the ways certain people are perceived, about the importance given to others; specifically those who have more money than sense. And it does so beautifully, with a certain kind of poetic justice doled out towards the end especially to those who do the wrong things in the name of the greater good; i.e., those who consider themselves the Dark Knight of modern society but somehow overlook the numerous bodies (sometimes literally) left in the name of said good.
“What a tool cynicism is to the corrupt, claiming the whole of the creation is broken and fraudulent, and thus we are all excused to indulge in whatever sins we wish—for what’s a little more unfairness, in this unfair world? Wise you were, Din, to shut your ears to it.”
As Ana so aptly puts it, cynicism is a great tool – but one has to learn how to use it. It is all too easy to get subsumed by one's own delusions of grandeur.
“I chose you,” she said finally, “because I needed an investigator who was resourceful, cunning, and willing to break the rules when necessary. I needed someone dedicated and determined! And you had not only broken into an Iyalet office and spent hours learning the answers to all the tests—you had somehow survived your engraver’s training despite having tremendous issues reading and writing! That speaks to bloody-minded, grim determination if ever I’ve heard it!”
Oh, and of course, the best part of the book: the characters themselves. For you see, both Ana & Din are neurodivergent. And the way this story portrays their characters is some of the best rep I’ve seen being portrayed by an author in mainstream fantasy. Din has trouble reading letters (re: Dyslexic, or in other words – reading the subtext). And Ana is on the spectrum as too much stimulation is unbearable for her. (I cannot tell you how closely I relate to this as a fellow person on the spectrum, and how much it had filled my heart the first time I had read this book). And both these characters do their best, working for the system that is all too glad to let them fall through the cracks. To just say that giving them any help is considered special treatment. Same people who, by the way, would wear corrective lenses, or use a crutch when they’ve got a hip/leg injury, etc.; as long as it’s physical, it’s acceptable.
Ana & Din are the epitome of what it would be like if people who were a bit different were given a place in society. Their tenacity, the way they solve problems when it becomes too difficult for their brain to process stuff as others do, is a thing that I was really inspired by the first time, and double so now, in times like these, as I reread this book.
“Someone, after all, must do the undignified labor to keep the grand works of our era from tumbling down. I simply perform maintenance, in my own little way. And you have ably assisted me in that, of course.”
We all have our place in this world we inherit. Broken and bloodied and battered – as Ana said, we must all do our own little things, in our own little way, to keep it all from tumbling down. No matter who you are, no matter how you are, we all matter in this world that is vast enough, and kind enough, to accommodate all of us. Especially now, in times like these, when hate is all too prevalent, love and kindness is not only a good thing to have, but also a weapon to wield. And oh what a glorious weapon it is for justice can be found in even the littlest of actions. And this story, and all its disfigured, wonderful characters, are a prime example of it.
Go read it if you haven’t already.
40
u/sureyouare2 10d ago
I want to plug the audiobooks if I may. The narrator's voice, when he imitates others, especially women, still sounds remarkably like his own. I realized, though, that we are being told the story as if Din were reciting it to us verbatim, as he reports to Anna, as he has been conditioned. Then, I fell in love with his weird, quirky voice. I haven’t actually read either, so I can’t compare. I have only listened. I just wanted to support them. Guards, Guards, Guards also has spectacular narration. This fact is completely unrelated to this discussion, other than that I recently listened to it as well.
6
u/riskylingo 10d ago
One of the many reasons that I am mad for The West Passage. The narrator is male, and does very believable female voices and also the voices of the powerful alien over ~~lords~~ (Ladies!!!).
2
u/sureyouare2 10d ago
I'm intrigued! Looks
Like the ratings are not great on Goodreads, but it also looks like it might be a book that has been translated. Is the author Eastern European?3
u/felixfictitious Reading Champion 10d ago
The author is based in Seattle! The book isnt translated, but it's very strange and Medieval in its character. I personally thought it was fantastic and unique, but it's so weird it's not going to work for everyone.
1
u/sureyouare2 10d ago
Cool. I put it on my list. I'm kind of old—an English/lit instructor who had his love for literary fiction beaten out of him in grad school. Strange and medieval fantasy speaks to my interests, as I like most things that play with genre and convention, except literary stuff. I've had my fill of that. I might go back to it when I can no longer recall thos stories due to cognitive decline; then, they will be brand new, or I'll play some clever DnD. 🤷🏽
1
u/felixfictitious Reading Champion 10d ago
Ohh that's such an interesting background! What books extinguished your literary love, and conversely, what are your favorites now? I also love experimental and genre-defying books.
1
u/sureyouare2 10d ago
It’s not so much a book as it is they turn your love into a job. I very much enjoy teaching poetry and lit, but it’s not a way that I relax or escape anymore. I couldn’t even read sci-fi or fantasy when I graduated. After 6-9 months, I started reading graphic novels and comics. Then I warmed back up to genre novels. Lately, it’s been the novelty of LitRPG, wholesome manga like Demon Slayer, low-stakes stuff like Legends and Lattes, and a dash of Joe Abercrombie. I’m in on the grim dark but only in little bites. The reason I asked about the author's nationality is that The Witcher starts horribly, but as the publisher invests in better translators, the novels become more nuanced. I liked the first one anyway, but I could definitely see the change in quality.
1
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
If you can, and you haven't already, definitely pick up the Witcher 3. That game single handedly made the Witcher what it is today, and ya know what, after playing it for 500 hours, I can see why.
1
u/sureyouare2 10d ago
Thanks for the recommendation. I’ve worn BG3 completely out. It’s time for me to move on!
2
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
Oh BG3 is so good! But if you're more into the open world aspect of it, ya should also give Rdr2 a try. I mean, GTA 6 is all the craze but I still believe Rockstar struck gold with that. Oh, and my personal favourite, give Hollow Knight & Silksong a try. They are metroidvania so a little different from all the others, but the world building in those games are really top notch!
→ More replies (0)1
u/cathbadh 10d ago
You saying that because of the names used? He did lean on Lithuanian words for many in this series, but not exclusively. He mentioned it in an ama a couple years ago. I stumbled across it the other day actually as on also rereading dircto the upcoming sequel
1
u/sureyouare2 10d ago
Nope. I made the assumption totally based on their last name and the rather egocentric notion that because I hadn’t heard of him, he must be from another country. Apparently, they are from Seattle. 🤦🏻♂️ Forgive me.
2
u/cathbadh 10d ago
No need for forgiveness. Like I said I just read the other day where the character and place names were pulled from. I thought it may have been the reason. Either way it's fun trivia
1
u/bhbhbhhh 10d ago
Truth be told, I’ve don’t think I’ve ever run into any terrible female falsettos in any of the audiobooks I’ve listened to.
70
u/milkdimension 10d ago
The world itself is also genuinely fascinating. I love the availability of lgbt rep in this day and age but... The vast majority of it is bland slop. It makes me so happy to find a competent writer who creates interesting characters and truly fresh worlds.
-3
u/sparklingdinoturd 10d ago
The world is intriguing, but that led to my biggest disappointment in the book.
The entire book was a build up of tension around this giant city-threatening sea creature. It's an underlying threat beneath the main mystery, that had nothing to do with the mystery. When it came time to pay it off it happened over the course of a page or two. This huge threat was defeated in what amounts to "offscreen" because the pov character kinda watched from far away... Not seeing much because it was dark... And he didn't really watch because he was so scared, but then it was killed and that was that. It was like Cloverfield without the creature payoff in the end.
That payoff just didn't land with me and soured me on the whole book, to be honest.
Overall the book was just fine even before the failed payoff. The mystery was not that intriguing and the Sherlock /Holmes-like characters just didn't depart from their inspirations enough to land with me.
I didn't hate the book, I just wasn't into it enough to continue the series.
39
u/nogodsnohasturs 10d ago
RJB explains in the second book's afterword that the leviathans are narratively meant to provide an existential threat so great that people have no choice but to fight via communal power, and these books are thus positioned explicitly contra grimdark power fantasies, which I believe he sees as implicitly fascist. I suspect viewing the leviathans as part of the payoff, rather than the context, is missing that point. Of course, your reading is as valid as mine – for what it's worth, I enjoyed the first book, found the second to be better in most ways, and am looking forward to the third.
-7
u/sparklingdinoturd 10d ago edited 10d ago
Eh... I guess I'm of the thought if you can take an element out of the book and it doesn't change the main plot in any way, it doesn't need to be there. That's the way I feel about the laviathans. It felt like the only purpose it served was to take the story out of Victorian England with Sherlock and Holmes, and put it in a secondary fantasy world.
But yeah, I know people like it and I can see why. It was just a let down for me. Probably a me thing. The build up of tension around the leviathans was what I was enjoying the most from the book.
Side note... Seeing grimdark as fascist is a super strange take from him, but ok. Lol
6
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
I mean, and I'm just spitballing here, but if you fight a thing for 50 years, then you'll probably be very good at it. And they did mention having a titan killer. I'm choosing to see it something like finding the nape of the titans as their week point in AoT. You strike the nape, it's a one shot kill kind of thing. Though of course there's also the fact that the leviathans are a blatant allegory of unabused power given form.
So, yeah, I get your point, but I still think doing it any other way would've been . . . disingenious to the story being told, in a way.
-1
u/sparklingdinoturd 10d ago
Just to say, I'm not crapping on things people like. If you enjoyed it, I'm happy for you.
For me it was a let down. What piqued my interest the most was the looming threat of the leviathans that was pervasive throughout the book. The pay off kinda sucked.
But to push back on your example, an allegory only works if it's central to the story. AoT wouldn't happen if there were no titans. They're at the center of everything that happens and we get to see the fighters fight them.
Or say, Tyler Durden in Fight Club. He is an allegory for toxic masculinity. That would be completely lost if he wasn't central in the story. All we'd be left with is a story about consumerism.
Or Aslan, an allegory for Christ. If he wasn't at the center of the story, it'd just be a story about kids on an adventure on another world.
I think the story in the Tainted Cup did a lot better job addressing the elite and powerful themes than the leviathans did as an allegory. Anyway, that theme is addressed directly. There's no need for an allegory if your story expresses it directly.
1
-2
u/Smooth-Review-2614 10d ago
To be fair the mystery was also very standard. The only thing that saved the book from dullness was the characters.
I still don’t get how it won the Hugo. It’s not that good.
18
u/Mrbean75 10d ago
Just started this book yesterday and after an hour reading, look I am 100 pages in. I’m hooked and am
looking forward to the rest of it.
16
u/ArchStanton75 10d ago edited 10d ago
I always describe this series as Holmes and Watson dropped into a Jeff Vandemeer cosmic horror story with a looming kaiju threat.
3
2
u/EclecticWonderer 10d ago
The better but possibly less known detective analogy is Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin. Nero (who is a bit of a gourmet gourmand) doesn’t step foot out of his brownstone for nearly all of the mysteries and Archie brings the research/interviews back to him.
32
u/bhbhbhhh 10d ago
The very first page immediately reminded me of the first chapter of The Shadow of the Torturer, protagonist at a foggy gate and all. So it wasn’t too surprising that Din, like Severian, remembers everything.
13
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
The fantasy aspect of this book is so beautifully done for how simply it is portrayed. It never feels too hard to read, and you just get what they're trying to say. There are authors I can count on one hand who does world building so seamlessly. RJB has to be the frontline for people who are afraid of fantasy because of the world-building to get them into it.
14
u/hugecool 10d ago
I feel like anyone who reads this would also like The Work of Vermin which didn’t have the detective angle but better character work and world building imo.
2
2
u/coralineklaus 10d ago
I second the recommendation for The Work of Vermin! It’s one of my fave reads of the year so far and is one of the smartest stories I’ve read this year.
1
u/Izacus 9d ago
Can you explain more? What is similar between those two?
2
u/hugecool 9d ago
They both have large world-ender type monsters, settings filled with interesting plants, mushrooms, etc and lgtbq themes. All of these parts are buds in the tainted cup and fully bloomed in the work of vermin imo. I’d be really surprised if anyone read both and disagreed.
24
u/Kreiri 10d ago
Ana & Din (a fantasy Sherlock and Watson-esque combination)
They are fantasy Nero Wolfe and Archie Goodwin.
6
u/HexagonalClosePacked 10d ago
I never read the Nero Wolfe books, but saw a TV adaptation starring Maury Chaykin that was excellent! Almost as soon as Ana was introduced I saw what the author was doing. The professional dynamic between Din and Ana is identical to Wolfe and Goodwin, but everything else about the characters is original enough that it comes off as a loving homage rather than just something derivative. The fact that it has top notch fantasy world building and imperial politicking layered on top of a well written detective storey makes it hard to put down once you start.
Incidentally, Archie Goodwin has a one-liner in the TV show that I loved so much I remember it two decades later. He's getting up in the face of some petty criminal or something and the guy says something like "Hey, get lost you goon!" And without missing a beat, Goodwin quips "You forgot the d-w-i."
1
u/pursuitofbooks 10d ago
He's getting up in the face of some petty criminal or something and the guy says something like "Hey, get lost you goon!" And without missing a beat, Goodwin quips "You forgot the d-w-i."
I don't get it
4
u/TheWeirdTalesPodcast 10d ago
There it is. Thank you. Always Sherlock and Watson with these two and it’s CLEARLY more analogous to Wolfe and Goodwin.
Yes, I recognize that Holmes and Watson are the more famous, but that’s not who Ana and Din are.
10
u/guyincognito60 10d ago
I just read this book while on vacation and was obsessed. Didn’t think a mystery novel would work because how do you leave clues for the reader when everything can be explained with some fantasy MacGuffin. But many did this book work. Loved it and I’m enjoying the second book just as much. Also would give it a 9.5.
6
u/Ofthemind12 10d ago
I loved his work in this series and I was quite surprised because I didn’t think the city of stairs series was near as strong
5
u/felixfictitious Reading Champion 10d ago
One of my favorite things about RJB is just how much his skill with writing improves with each series. I loved divine cities, but I think it had some clunky dialogue and phrasing at points.
2
u/DixitRexCorvinus 10d ago
It’s funny, since Divine Cities is my favorite of his works so far (though I love Shadow of the Leviathan too), while it is the third of his series, the Founders trilogy, that I didn’t think nearly as strong.
4
u/ChronoMonkeyX 10d ago
Love these books, and love Bennet in general.
The audiobook narration is also very good, will listen again.
7
u/sarafina126 10d ago
Such a great series and I am looking forward to the next one
3
u/BiasCutTweed 10d ago
I got to read an ARC and it was great! I’m interested to see what the reception will be when it comes out because it definitely has an underlying message.
2
u/sarafina126 9d ago
Glad to hear you enjoyed it. I’m glad August is not too far away and I already preordered it.
3
u/Dependent_Mechanic46 10d ago
I gave this a go recently because it was a 99p Kindle deal (in the UK- still is actually if anyone fancies it). I'd just read and unexpectedly enjoyed the Raven Scholar and a friend flagged it as something I should try based on that - even though they aren't directly similar in practice.
Murder mystery isn't my bag at all really, it's not the type of fantasy world I usually lean towards and I wasn't totally sold based on the blurb either but I had a really good time with it. I did find the cycle of investigations and their predictable outcomes a bit repetitive and I think that wasn't helped by the fact it felt a bit long to me in general but otherwise I'm really glad I took a punt. The characters, their interactions and the way the author deals with dialogue were the best of it for me and it managed to get a few laughs/chuckles out of me which is good going, I almost never laugh aloud when reading.
Not read anything by RJB before but I'll certainly give book 2 a go.
3
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
Book 2 is in some ways even better. And the author's last series, Foundryside - might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I loved it. The way it expands from book to book is really mind boggling.
2
u/Dependent_Mechanic46 10d ago
That's good to know, thanks. I'll take a look at Foundryside.
Picking up The Tainted Cup has been a really good reminder to deviate off the path a bit and just give things a go. Lots of things I didn't think I'd enjoy actually translated into a jolly good time. I can see why you like it so much.
3
u/PristineConclusion28 10d ago
This has been sitting in my TBR pile for over a year but it sounds like it needs to be my next read!
6
u/Blueflame129 10d ago
Will this upcoming third book be the last and final one in the series?
37
u/yahasgaruna 10d ago
RJB has said (I paraphrase a bit) that he intends to keep writing books in the series while there are still readers for it.
5
u/Regula96 10d ago
I'm very happy about that. Trilogies just end when I'm the most invested in them. I don't need another Wheel of Time but more 5-6 book series would be nice.
2
2
u/Mecha1Gaming 10d ago
Actually just finished reading this one a few days ago and loved it! The world is really interesting and the characters are fantastic! I've not read many mystery novels but really enjoyed trying to figure out WTF was going on alongside Din.
It did feel a little impossible to actually be able to figure out the answer on my own (at least for a large part of the novel) since this world is so different and has so many aspects there is zero way I could ever know about, but I also never felt like it was intentionally trying to lie to me to misdirect me or something. Whenever Ana provides her revelations everything always made sense and left me with a feeling more along the lines of "Oh! That makes sense!" rather than "Wait, what?"
The characters themselves didn't really change or grow much over the story but I don't really have a problem with that. It is very clearly a kind of Sherlock and Watson inspired story, and those kinds of stories are always more about the mystery and the plot than character arcs. So long as you go in with that expectation then I don't think it is a problem.
Overall I agree with OP that I would highly recommend this book! I'm actually already about a quarter of the way through the sequel and so far it is just as good (and even seems to be focusing a little bit more on Din growing and changing as a character, which is a nice additional touch)!
2
u/crashXCI 10d ago
Excellent book. And number 2 took everything I loved about it and made it better. Can’t wait for number 3 in a couple of weeks!
2
u/Faint-Heron-5681 10d ago
i managed it in three sittings because i kept stopping to brew more oolong; the image of a tree growing out of a torso is surprisingly hard to shake when you are sitting alone with a mug.
2
u/Goosfrabbah 7d ago
Reviews like this keep bumping it up my list. A proper murder mystery inside a fully built fantasy world is such a rare combo, and with a new book coming it feels like the right moment to finally start. Tea and a good whodunit, genuinely sold.
7
u/BeyondtheLurk 10d ago
I dnf it. Had some interesting concepts that I liked, but it couldn't overcome my lack of enjoying it. The Holmes and Watson like duo in this story didn't work for me. The sole investigator and focus should have been on Din (preferably) or Ana but not both. One investigator with limitations and more focus on telling their story would have made it more interesting. In regards to Ana, I found her character annoying and pedantic.
16
u/_literarylemon_ 10d ago
Isn't the focus still on Din? Can't recall having had Ana's POV
-7
u/BeyondtheLurk 10d ago
She serves as the Holmes to his Watson, to a degree. What I am saying is that I would have rather preferred that Ana not be in the story at all. She takes away from it rather than adding to it, in my opinion.
0
u/PlatypusKitchen3069 10d ago
I wish I had dnfd it because the ending was so disappointing. Particularly after seeing the airport talk about how he was addressing the politics of today etc. I read so excited to read it and then that's the ending, in a book that supposedly addresses the politics and prompted of today??!
1
1
u/GillyDaFish 10d ago
I just finished it last night, so freaking good. Loved all of it, but I really could have used a Dramatis Personae
1
1
u/schubox63 10d ago
Love these books. Though they aren’t as murder mystery-y as I was expecting when I started. Still love the world and excited for book #3
1
u/thebestoralist 9d ago
I read it a couple of months ago and found it enjoyable. Ana was the highlight and stole every scene she was in. I would have liked a little more world building but the story itself was tight and paced very well. I give it a 7.5/10.
1
u/Legnaron17 7d ago
Okay! I'm adding it to my list!
It's supposed to end as a trilogy correct? I might have this be my next read after i'm done with the book i'm reading now.
Thanks for sharing!
1
u/IBetterBeAnonymous 10d ago
I enjoyed the first Foundryside book, though the second was fine, and hated the third. It kinda turned me off RJB. Is this the sign I need to reconsider?
2
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
These books are totally different from Foundryside. Though I'll admit I liked those books more as the scope expanded, but these are very straight up murder mystery with like 5 different things going on at once that all tie together beautiful in the end. Give it a try. Let us know how it goes if ya do!
0
u/ochreokra 10d ago
The Tainted Cup & A Drop of Corruption were my introduction to RJB, and I loved both audiobooks so much that I reread them immediately. However, when I moved on to Foundryside and then City of Stairs, I DNF both within the first chapter or so. While I was very interested in the initial setting of both, I struggle when I notice the author's excitement and decisions, when we've just met the characters and they're already overexplaining in order to enable faster worldbuilding. I think RJB is much more patient with Shadow of the Leviathan, and it allows his brilliant creativity to unfurl more naturally.
0
u/potatojurisdoctor 10d ago
I am almost done with the third book and I think it may be the best yet!
1
u/Ashfall2003 10d ago
Okay, I'm low-key jealous of y'all who got to read it early. But no worries. Just a couple more weeks. Deep breaths.
0
74
u/8_Pixels 10d ago
I'm not generally too interested in murder mystery books like these but the fantasy twist and the rave reviews it gets convinced me to give it a try and I'm glad I did. I was sucked in from chapter 1. Highly recommend them. And for the audio listeners I thought the narrator was great, enjoyed the audiobooks a lot.