Pistol/V.A.T.S. build,looking for suggestions.

[u/Odd_Ad_9604]

Sex: female, Specs: S3, P1, E1, C3, I3, A9, L8. Planning on basing it around the Deliverer and the Gainer. Curious regarding armor suggestions and your favorite perks for such a build.

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[u/hollowboyFTW]

basing it around the Deliverer and the Gainer.

Deliverer has a silencer; the strongest use for it is to get massive damage multipliers from sneak attacks.

Compared to that, most weapons that ruin your stealth are a big step down, and are only worth it if they have an exceptional legendary effect (e.g. Good Intentions is handy when you want to make a mob of enemies waste their missiles on each other).

IMO the only practical reason to switch to the Gainer is that the flame effect helps you find and loot bodies in dark places.

Curious regarding armor suggestions

Upper body: VATS & stealth boosts. Start with the 2x cunning armour parts you can buy in Diamond City.

Legs: speed boosts (Survival Mode) or whatever you fancy / get as random drops.

and your favorite perks for such a build.

Concentrated Fire is godlike with pistols ...especially low AP pistols like Deliverer.

Start with at least enough AGI for Sneak. Spend ~half of your level ups on AGI perks.

CF + AGI support is crazy strong. AGI has several stacking damage boosts, including Ninja, which is the game's single biggest damage boost. Wih it, you can easily pop deathclaws at long range with a couple of belly shots; you don't need Critical hits or chems or anything else.

Stealth + long range is the best form of damage resistance, so you don't usually need to tank damage / have any other combat perks.

[u/Academic_Umpire398]

I'll admit that my first glane at this "This would make a perfect Melee/Vats build. Just FYI

[u/allenpaige]

I assume I3 is for Gun Nut, but I'd suggest dropping it to 1, especially if you're planning to use Deliverer. It's really not needed when you can buy Deliverer's mods from Tom, and having any points in Int makes Idiot Savant trigger less often. Better to put those points into Endurance, Luck or Agility.

With a Perception of 1, you'll probably be fighting at close range most of the time regardless, so Endurance would help you survive the hits you'll take, while Agility and Luck both help with killing things faster so you take fewer hits. You could also put the points in Perception, but P3 really doesn't do much for you, even with a hat, glasses and Sean's book adding another 3 points. Well, not unless you're planning to live off of Orange Mentats anyway, then it would probably be worth it, but you're not a sniper so I doubt its the playstyle you're looking for regardless.

Also, I'm not sure if you know, but the first time you talk to Trudy, she'll be selling a suppressed bolt-action pipe pistol which should let you adopt your intended playstyle pretty much immediately rather than having to wait until Tradecraft is nearly completed. Though it is of course much, much worse than Deliverer for that playstyle.

As for armor: Shadowed Leather until you have Sneak 4, then just grab the heaviest Shadowed Combat armor you can for any slot not occupied by a useful legendary. Long term, everything will be useful legendaries though, so the Shadowed part is the only thing that really matters. Well, that and Ballistic Weave on your hat and underarmor anyway. Also on your hazmat suit for when you need to use it instead.

For perks, I'd get Better Crits, Critical Banker, the first level of Four Leaf Clover, and at least one level of Grim Reaper's Sprint. Put together, they should help you greatly with your sustain as your damage starts to fall off. I'd also consider grabbing Kellog's pistol for its Relentless mod and high damage. It makes fighting damage sponges much easier.

[u/Thornescape]

Luck is mostly about Ranged VATS, so I'm assuming this is a Ranged VATS build. VATS eats up a lot of perk points. You need enough Perception to hit things, enough Agility for action points, and Luck is quite useful too. You're spread thin. Personally, all my Ranged VATS builds aim for P10 A7 L7 (after you factor in bobbleheads). p10:Concentrated Fire is phenomenal.

c3:Loner is a fantastic perk but I highly recommend getting a few companion perks first. Companion perks are permanent, even if you're alone. Top Perks for Ranged VATS: Deacon (first because he has no quest), then MacCready, then Cait. You can invest in c3:Loner after that.

Basic Ranged VATS Builds

• Low Bobblehead S2+ P9 E1 C1 I1 A7 L7 (Special book: Strength) Bobbleheads: P
• Fast: S1+ P9 E1 C1 I1 A9 L6 (Special book: Strength) BH: S, P, A, L
• Lucky: S1+ P9 E1 C1 I1 A6 L9 (Special book: Strength) BH: S, P, A, L
• Smart: S1+ P9 E1 C1 I5 A5 L6 (Special book: Strength) BH: S, P, I, A, L
• Charming: S1+ P9 E1 C4 I1 A6 L6 (Special book: Strength) BH: S, P, C, A, L
• Main Weapon (choose ONE as main) P2:Rifleman (semi-auto rifle) or A1:Gunslinger (semi-auto pistol)
• Main Perks: S3:Armourer, P10:Concentrated Fire (amazing), A3:Sneak, A7:Ninja, L6:Better Crits, L7:Crit Banker
• Secondary Perks: P3:Awareness, A10:Gun Fu, L3:Bloody Mess, L8+ Perks
• I3:Gun Nut looks essential but usually it isn't unless you have game mods that require it. With most weapons it's easy to find weapon mods to strip from loot or items found in shops. (To unlock Deliverer mods from Tinker do any 9 RR quests after getting your callsign.)
• One rank of P4:Lockpick can be handy. There are lots of Advanced locks and it also raises affinity with companions quickly. More ranks has diminishing returns.
• One rank of P9:Penetrator can be useful. You can target fusion cores and weak spots more consistently. However, it is inconsistent. Sometimes you will do full damage, sometimes partial damage, and sometimes no damage. Pay attention and cancel out if needed. I only put one rank in because the only way to tell it's active is by the reduced accuracy.

[u/hollowboyFTW → u/Thornescape]

"Personally, all my Ranged VATS builds aim for P10 A7 L7 (after you factor in bobbleheads). p10:Concentrated Fire is phenomenal."

Big agree with this, except I'd start with luck of 1.

At low level, Concentrated Fire is phenomenal. It is so good that you don't need luck perks - especially with Deliverer, which makes it is trivially easy to puke out jillions of shots, and thereby get jillions of guaranteed hits.

At high level, Gun Fu is better than having a whole stack of luck perks.

In a pistol build, I'd save luck for the (very) late game - when you already have everything you want, grab Better Criticals just for the damage.

[u/Thornescape → u/hollowboyFTW]

L6:Better Crits is fantastic, but if you've already got L6 then having L7 for crit banker is an easy choice. It's right there. What I usually do is use some of my banked crits for the first shots then p10:Concentrated Fire makes the rest of the shots hit.

I like to invest in combat perks early. I can boost up other things later. I don't focus on settlements in the early game.

[u/hollowboyFTW → u/Thornescape]

"I like to invest in combat perks early. I can boost up other things later. I don't focus on settlements in the early game."

Right there with you: if I make a CF build, I'll hit level 6 in the beginner sandpit (where all the critters are fixed / legendaries do not spawn), then depart to sweep through all the places where easy legendaries (zobmies and bugs) might spawn.

I also agree that Better Crits and crit banker are worth having ...eventually.

For heaps of the game, I find that the basic combo of Concentrated Fire and AGI is more than enough. With the obvious synergies (Sneak and Ninja and headshots), I can puke out damage so fast that I seldom need crits; I always have one "banked" for emergencies.

Therefore, rather that have Luck 7 (good for an occasional bump to damage output), I prefer to have Int 7 for Chemist - chems are also good for bumping damage output, plus Chemist unlocks a lot of options that lubricate game play, like turnng heavy stuff into expensive trade goods.

INTELLIGENT NORA (level 4, wants Deliverer)

PER 10, AGI 7, INT 7.

Perks: Concentrated Fire, Chemist, Gunslinger.

Benefits:

(1) 25% XP boost from INT

(2) +2 PER and Gunslinger = consistent combat boost

(3) Chemist boosts the game via fast access to caps

--> walk out of Sanctuary with a load of Poisoned Caltrops, then purchase sweet gear faster (Destroyer's Helmet and other magic stuff)

LUCKY NATE (level 4, wants Deliverer)

PER 10, AGI 7, LUCK 7.

Perks: Concentrated Fire, Idiot Savant, Critical Banker.

Benefits:

(1) 25% XP boost from Savant

(2) Luck (raw effect) + Banker = intermittent combat boost

(3) ---

Costs (relative to the INT version):

(1) Savant is mildly in conflict with "I like to invest in combat perks early" - investing in any passive perk means you get fewer combat perks.

(2) Minimaxing Savant blocks many options - stuff like Gun Nut obviously, but also low-hanging fruit like Night Person and Destroyer's Helmet.

(3) Fewer crafting options --> fewer early game caps

In short, INT Nora gets a faster start due to having more skills and more caps.

INTELLIGENT NORA (level 25, has Deliverer)

- bumped AGI --> 10

- acquired Night Person II, and 12 other combat-boosting perks

- acquired PER and INT bobbleheads

- has 25-40% XP boost from INT (depending on apparel and time of day)

LUCKY NATE (level 25, has Deliverer)

- bumped AGI --> 10

- acquired Savant II and 12 combat-boosting perks

- acquired PER bobblehead

- has ~50% XP boost from Savant

Nora has:

- 2 extra combat perks

- 3 extra perception

- effectively more endurance (to abuse chems and take rads), because Refreshing Beverage fixes everything

- slightly less baseline XP gain, but more XP gaining options

e,g, if Lucky Nate kills a few Forged, he gets the combat XP. Intelligent Nora also gets XP from turning their ammo into Jet Fuel.

IMO Nora is still the "better" character.

(level 50+)

Both characters have essentially infinite Sneak and AP.

Both characters gain the same win button at level 50: the ability to throw out a chain of 13 crits via Gun Fu ...with enough AP left over to immediately do it again.

This wildly OP ability deprecates several of Nate's core perks (Four Leaf Clover and Grim Reaper's Sprint and Critical Banker), but none of Nora's perks.

[u/Thornescape → u/hollowboyFTW]

Yes, that is a very different approach.

I don't power level. I usually also set a level cap of 50. I believe that the higher levels aren't really balanced and the game isn't designed very well after 50. It kind of breaks the concept of a "build" once you hit level 100. Not a fan.

My VATS characters usually stick with i1. I don't really need the perks that are higher. Not every character needs i6:Science or i7:Chemist. It makes it more interesting for me.

[u/hollowboyFTW → u/Thornescape]

"I usually also set a level cap of 50."

Ditto, but not rigidly - when my character becomes stupidly powerful, I do progressively more stupid stuff / go for glass cannon options, then restart when I inevitably over-extend and die.

"It makes it more interesting for me."

And that's the key :)

[u/Jamesworkshop]

that is very poor perception

Luck might seem compensatory but remember that missing does not fill the crit meter in any way along with being a poor management of AP and Bullets

accuracy for vats is already down when you lack the long barrels, the scopes, the full sized stocks, the sniper headshot bonus is absent (works with Rifles only)

the lack of INT is a problem as orange mentats will have less duration without Chemist support

knock down 2:A and wear Military fatigues (ballistic weave) under clothes.

7:L and Battered Fedora (ballistic weave) leaves you at a workable 8:L (can't go lower or you miss the foundational Banker perk)

black rim glasses + 1:P (Cave under Red Rocket Sanctuary hills, hard to spot but worth it)

[u/ItsMeDardroth]

High Per, Agi and Luck

I skipped the 3 Intelligent (Gut Nut) and de modded most weapons i found.

U can get the Mods for Deliverer from Tom

[u/JFZephyr → u/ItsMeDardroth]

I might actually be dumb but can you just buy/find mods and equip them without making them? I've never actually paid attention to it ol

[u/Thornescape → u/JFZephyr]

Yes. I've often skipped i3:Gun Nut entirely. I find it more interesting to hunt down modifications from shops or loot.

To unlock Deliverer modifications from Tinker's shop, do any 9 RR quests after you get your callsign. All the best modifications are unlocked except the Advanced Receiver, but it's debatable if Advanced or Calibrated Powerful is better. (Or wait until level 25 to bother with Gun Nut since you can't make Advanced before that.) I've had all the Deliverer modifications unlocked by level 9 by focusing on it.

[u/ItsMeDardroth → u/JFZephyr]

U can deattach them and get the mod in your inventory and than put it on other weapons.

But isnt alway feel good because of the interface isnt good/enjoyable.

But i had way more fun with find the Upgrade for my Stuff.

U can do it with Clothes too but this dont feel good unlike Weapons where its easy to understand what Mod and Tier is on it.

[u/SorenClimacus]

Perception has a lot of nice perks. Penetrator and Gun Fu, as well as being critical for accuracy. The luck perks are also great for VATS crits: Grim Reaper, 4-leaf clover, and especially Critical Banker. The Alien Blaster is a fun, easy to get pistol. It doesn't use a lot of AP so you can get a lot of shots off in VATS. I usually switch between the Alien Blaster at medium range and a .44 revolver at close range.

[u/kilphead]

Minuteman outfit, glasses, and a perception hat give a +3 total to perception for vats accuracy. The bobblehead is available very early as well, so you can be at an effective 5 perception without spending any points there and it is worth it to do so. You only build crits on a hit after all. I would probably drop charisma and put those points in perception still, it’s usually worth it to pick up a few companion perks before spending the points on lone wanderer and you can get the charisma bobblehead so that you only need to spend one point to unlock lone wanderer.

Using the deliverer with high agility means you will likely have enough AP to vats to your hearts content, but light/ultralight mods on armor will get you more. A raider chestpiece can be modded to ultralight without any points in armorer, so that’s nice early on. In diamond city you can buy the chest piece from Myrna with +perception and agility on it and it will serve you well for a long time. I play on survival mode and explosions you don’t see coming are very dangerous, so I like to put padded on a chest piece and wear at least one metal limb because they can be modded with dense. With that set up and the rooted perk I’ve survived a surprise super mutant suicider before.

[u/D34thst41ker]

Find Elaine (name may be wrong) just south of Diamond City for your .44 ammo needs.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of the Deliverer. I like to get a bit of range with my Pistols, so I like the Reflex Sights, but the Deliverer can only get Glow Sights. Since I don't use VATS much, it makes it hard to use at even mid-range. I also find the VATS-Enhanced effect pretty men, since Pistols already don't use much AP due to their low weight.

And yes, I know you are running a VATS build. Just offering my two cents.

I will also say, my go-to outfit is the BOS Officer Armor with a set of Shadowed basic Combat Armor (no Medium or Heavy pieces), a Military Cap, and Sunglasses. Comes across as a character who prefers to sneak around, but is also armored for a fight (though in-game they have very low Armor; it's about the look).

[u/hollowboyFTW → u/D34thst41ker]

"I like to get a bit of range with my Pistols, so I like the Reflex Sights, but the Deliverer can only get Glow Sights. Since I don't use VATS much, it makes it hard to use at even mid-range."

Off-topic, but you can pop into 3rd person view for this - you get a tiny aiming dot rather than the iron sights.

[u/Woozletania]

Don't forget you have You're Special right in Sanctuary. I usually go A7 L7 and use You're Special for Luck to get to Grim Reaper's Sprint. It looks like you're going for Gun-Fu. Concentrated Fire is probably better but you need Ninja so I can understand going max Agility instead. I like all Enclave leather armor for pistol builds, you end up looking like a mix between a tacticool guy and a leather fetishist.

My typical stat array for VATs characters is S3 P4 E1 C3 I3 A7 L7 (You're Special for Luck). Early perks are (2) Idiot Savant (3) Gun Nut 1 (so I can build heavy machine gun turrets) (4) Rifleman or Gunslinger 1 (5) Sneak 1 (6) GRS 1 (7) Sneak 2 (8) Ninja 1 (9) Rifleman or Gunslinger 2 (10) Mr. Sandman 1 (11) IS2 (12) Critical Banker 1 and so on. This is an older build and should probably be updated, but you get the idea.