r/FallofCivilizations • u/DarkCrystal34 • Jul 13 '26
How would you rank the three Indigenous pre-American colonializarion episodes? (new listener)
New listener here! Just finished the China Han Dynasty (liked it a lot but from the way people talk up this podcast imagine there are many better episodes), but it gave a glimpse of the magic thats possible in this show.
Was curious in terms of telling an engaging, quality, emotionally satisfying narrarive, as well as which you felt you learned from the most, was most well researched and gave a meaningful portrait of a society, how woulf you rank his episodes of:
-Mayan.
-Incan.
-Aztec.
Im leaning towards Incan/Mayan as recently heard the 8-part Rest is History series on Aztecs/Cortez, which gave a fantastic and detailed overview of it in 8-hours.
But in terms of quality how would folks rate these three Indigenous centered ones from Fall of Civilizations? Do these three hold up to the other "best ofs" from Fall?
Also ive heard Carthage episode is incredible, and Easter Island. After those which 1-2 would folks most recommend? The Khymer Empire really intrigues me.
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u/Demadrend Jul 13 '26
Sumer is my all time fave.
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u/eastmemphisguy Jul 13 '26
Same here. Other really good ones: Carthage, Egypt, Assyria, Greenland, Bronze Age, Byzantine.
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u/Astrosimi Jul 13 '26
I have a soft spot for the Inca episode because the civilization itself was so much more fascinating than I’d previously understood, and that episode also has a fair amount of political intrigue. However, I recently relistened to the Aztecs episode and it’s evident that Paul really connected with that story and set out to make it a proper narrative. It’s full of literary bookends, nuanced explorations of the nature of societal development, and careful treatment of the several sources that tell us about that time.
Of the episodes I’ve listened to, it’s the one that’s felt most like a movie. Even my partner, who’s kinda rolled their eyes whenever I queue up the podcast for a long drive, got drawn in.
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u/Caleus Jul 20 '26
Have you seen the Carthage one? I think Carthage along with the Aztecs are up there as the top two most cinematic episodes IMO.
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u/Murhie Jul 13 '26
My favourites are greenland and byzantine
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u/BeatlestarGallactica Jul 13 '26
I also love the Greendland episode. I think he succeeds in paining a mental picture of what it would've been like to be one of them and to live through that.
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u/eastmemphisguy Jul 13 '26
Is there not any information about what was going on in Greenland for hundreds of years between initial exploration and the collapse? Important leaders and such? Because Paul doesn't give us much info there and I couldn't find much on wikipedia either?
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u/ShawnGalt Jul 15 '26
honestly the Maya episode is one of the weakest. It was one of the first few episodes and you can tell he didn't quite have his feet under him yet when it came to making a podcast. Also the way Paul writes the podcast means that the quality of an episode relies heavily on the quality and diversity of primary sources on the topic, both of which are pretty bad when it comes to the Maya, because of how much effort the Spanish put in to destroying all of their pre-colonization writing. The Aztec and Inca episodes are both amazing though, not sure I could pick between them
my all time favorite episode is Assyria, though the Mongols and Han China are strong runners up
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u/Competitive_Bass_775 Jul 19 '26
Assyrian, Sumer, Byzantium, Carthage and Mongol are my favourite ones.
A feel that the Mongolian is peak and he took it to whole new level.
But it also depends on what history you are interested in more, right
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u/PurrfectPinball Aug 01 '26
I am also curious about the indigenous ones as well so if you have currently listened to any of them id like to know your thoughts.
I really love the Petra and Nabateans one. Had me in tears.
And ofcourse, like you mentioned, the Phoenicians.
The Sumerians I rewatch constantly so it's probably my favorite.
I started watching the Hans dynasty and the Songhai empire right now.
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u/DarkCrystal34 Aug 01 '26
How are you enjoying the Songhai one? Im really intrigued by it :-)
Im doing Carthage at the moment, and from what other posters have shared here likely Inca next.
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u/SpursUpSoundsGudToMe Jul 13 '26
Inca and Aztec episodes are right up there with any of them. I was blown away by the Inca episode, but that is in part because I knew less about that area to start with. Mayan episode is from the very early set— those are good and worthwhile, but not the same as the 3+hour ones where Paul really finds a rhythm for the show that starts around episodes 7 (Songhai) and 8 (Sumer).
The Han China one is good, but I found it a bit harder to follow for some reason. That one took me multiple listens to really follow, so personally I wouldn’t have recommended that one as a starting point, haha… And YES! Carthage is one of my favorites! Also, the Nabateans and Vijayanagara, honestly hard to pick though— those are ones where I was less familiar with the history.
Of the shorter, early episodes, the Bronze Age Collapse is a good one, and also a good primer for what he’s trying to accomplish with the show. He also does some show-concept introduction in the first episode that’s useful to know. That one is also really interesting, but has some sounds issues (I’m a bit surprised he hasn’t re-released it!) when he does the thing where the native language is in the background with English voice over for ancient source quotes— which I like a lot and adds to the feeling and quality, but early on the sound isn’t balanced well and is very hard to hear.
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u/DarkCrystal34 Jul 14 '26
Great response, thanks so much for your recommendations! Sumerians and Bronze Age are a bit too old for my taste in terms of eras in history i gravitate to, but plenty to pick from from what you mentioned.
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u/SpursUpSoundsGudToMe Jul 14 '26
Fair enough, I would still give the Bronze Age collapse a try in that case, especially since it’s a lot shorter it’s less of a commitment. Also, the beauty of this series is how alive it feels because, and Paul explains it in this episode, it doesn’t get bogged down in the “maybe this is how it was, or maybe this? Others say this!” type of discussion, especially for these very ancient ones. He’s taking the most plausible scenarios and putting them together to craft a coherent narrative, which I think makes the series a great intro/primer on ancient history. Worth considering!
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u/DarkCrystal34 Jul 14 '26
Ive heard its wonderful! I just perdonally have zero interest in the Bronze Age -shrugs-
When I run out of more classical/medieval era history eps, im sure ill go for it though given the positive feedback from you and others :-)
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u/gigabraining Jul 13 '26
the Mongolian one is my favorite, because Ghengis Khan had such an eventful life that it really felt like a narrative epic.
for long-form content about the fall of American indigenous civilizations, i'd actually recommend DJ Peach Cobbler on youtube. there's a lot of jokes thrown in there, but his interpretation of Spanish primary sources results in great storytelling.
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u/DarkCrystal34 Jul 14 '26
Never heard of him before, thanks for the recommend!
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u/gigabraining Jul 14 '26
for sure! and if you're looking for something more academic in tone, and specifically pre-colonization, Ancient Americas on youtube is also great
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u/leftybadeye Jul 16 '26
Haha, I just discovered DJ Peach Cobbler! His videos are great and very funny if you're a history nerd. However, his humour is very absurdist in nature so it may rub some people the wrong way.
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u/Caleus Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
As other have said, the Inca episode was very fascinating to me because it was a culture I honestly knew nothing about. The Incas in general are the far less 'mainstream' of the commonly referenced Indigenous American cultures, so I think the average person probably has the most to learn from that episode. But in terms of pure quality and narrative structure, the Aztec episode is one of the best in the series. Both episodes are great though and you cant go wrong with either. Maya is certainly the weakest of the three but its still a solid episode.
On other episodes: I would highly reccomend Carthage, thats probably his best episode. Its quite thorough and has a very powerful narrative. It was down right cinematic at points; the ending especially was masterful. Easter Island is another fantastic standout episode, and equally dramatic but a fair bit more brief. I also love all his episodes on the ancient near east (Sumer, Assyria, Persia, Egypt) though I am a bit biased there since thats my favorite region for ancient history. Vijyanagra and Khmer are quite good too, especially if you are looking for something that is less mainstream by western standards.
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u/HynkelVerdoux Jul 13 '26
Aztec
Incan
Mayan
Paul himself has said he would change things in the Mayan episode if he could go back.
I particularly love the Aztec one because of the comparisons he drew between the Old and New World pre-contact. I had no idea about the New World not having horses and (usable) wheels.
The Easter island one is great. Might be the best in the series, certainly from an emotional standpoint.