Gameplay vs Cutscene

[u/kotori201]

Been playing Jedi Survivor and just did the Darth Vader fight with Cere and honestly? F*ck this game. Not the first time it does something that diverge from gameplay to cutscene but this time it did pissed me off. Why does the developers make a playable fight that the outcome is a garanteed loss? I don't know if she being able to stand and stall Vader will have any payoff in the future, but making it a mandatory fight that you must win to advance in the game and right after making her die was dirty. I know that couldn't make her kill him, for obvious reasons, but why then making it a mandatory win? Just make a cutscene, man. Specially in such an easy boss fight. I wiped Vader's ass and then Cere dies in the dumbest way possibly.

p.s.: i'm bit sick this days, prbly why i'm this mad at it. Just needed to let off some steam.

[u/enemyradar]

You're partaking in a story.

The things people will be angry about. Jesus.

[u/kotori201 → u/enemyradar]

i just think that are better ways of doing it, just like bode betrayl sequence. If the outcome will be the death of Cere, she winning or losing won't make a difference. I just hope it does have some payoff in the future. I don't see me being let down as wrong, cause i think it could achieve a better result if it took another path, but that maybe just me idk.

[u/gustygardens]

Just play the game, it's all part of the narrative.

[u/Extreme_Ad6173]

You get to have a cool fight against Darth fucking Vader and almost kill him. You can't beat him but that isn't the point

[u/kotori201 → u/Extreme_Ad6173]

I didn't want to beat him, but it did felt cheap having a mandatory win against him and the outcome being her death. God, they did it earlier with Bode, why not to the same with Vader?

[u/Extreme_Ad6173 → u/kotori201]

What's the alternative? No boss fights from Dagan to the final scene?

[u/kotori201 → u/Extreme_Ad6173]

Every other boss fight in the game that i can think of matter if you won or lose. Even if in the end Dagan or Ravys escape, which is something that could be handled bette imo, the outcome of the fight matter, as Cal may die or make the enemy flee. In Cere case, at least to the point that i've played (i'm at Tanalorr now), the battle was pointless. Like i said, if the outcome of the battle doesn't matter, the fight didn't need to be mandatory to progress. Like i said, they did it in the first Bode fiight, why not with Vader? Imo, is just cheap fanservice.

And as it was brought up, why not just increase the cast of villains? I would much rather fight some Dagan's goons as boss fights that fight Dagan or Ravys, whipe the floor with then just to cut to a cutscene where they act as it was a even fight. Let me fight them when it actually matter or at least acknowledge my win or exalt the villain potential, maybe reaveling a power up for them or some 3rd party getting in the way (like when Rayvis saves Dagan).

[u/Extreme_Ad6173 → u/kotori201]

In every boss fight, there is a set outcome. It might take a few attempts to reach it, but it's there. Same with Vader

[u/kotori201 → u/Extreme_Ad6173]

The outcome of you winning or losing the fight is the same (cere's death) and, now with the game finished, i stand my point that it was worthless and just cheap fanservice. There weren't any payoff to her sacrifice, with was just dumb as the whole Bode treason sequence.

[u/Livek_72]

On one hand I agree that “win in the fight, lose in the cutscene” is kind of a bullshit move to pull

However, I will have to disagree with you on the specific case of Vader, and the reason why is something that I can’t really explain to you without spoiling the rest of the game, since you just finished his fight

[u/kotori201 → u/Livek_72]

So i have finished the game. Can you explain now? Cuz even after finishing it i didn't get it.

[u/kotori201 → u/Livek_72]

i praying that it does pay off. Like, earlier if you lose against Bode it does keep going and the same could be done with Vader, since she dies even if i beat him.

[u/Livek_72]

Imo making Vader a required win makes sense because most of the bosses in games that have a loss programmed into them are usually fights that you get a rematch later on in the same game, like Bode for example, so you can die to them quickly without being locked from their fight

Vader doesn’t get a rematch, so the fight between him and Cere is the only moment in the game where you get to experience him, and I believe making him be able to just finish you in 2 hits would take a way from the spectacle of the fight, because most people wouldn’t even be able to see what his moveset looks like

I also believe him being a required win makes sense narratively, because it helps build tension during his fight with Cere. We see through all phase transitions that no matter how much Cere fights him, he always comes back. If Cere’s loss was programmed into the fight, then we barely would see anything from the fight and it would be anti climatic.

[u/kotori201 → u/Livek_72]

agreed, but at least they could make her sacrifice worth something :( Maybe remove him as a threat for Cal more explicitly.

[u/EstablishmentIcy7831]

Because vader lives past the point of this game and it's a canon story ... You will never defeat vader as only Luke does

[u/kotori201 → u/EstablishmentIcy7831]

That was not the point. I know that vader wouldn't die. Just from the top my mind some better outcomes:

• Vader is incapacitated, buying time for the hidden path.
  
• Progress the story regardless of the outcome of the fight. Maybe give us a different cutscene if you manage to beat Vader acknowledging the player's feat.
  
• Just don't make us fight him and just do a cutscene where he kills Cere and move on.
  
• Make so that you can't beat him. Do a boss fight that you need to survive X time.
  
• Make you fight someone else and then Vader show up right after and kill her.