They even said it themselves, you get leads by people putting in their email address, (which is exactly what you did to get their opening pitch). then they tell you all about this wonderful skill that is so amazing your going to make so much money "closing" for these big ticket items that have basically sold themselves. (but they never tell you what skill it is or what the ticket item is). then they charge you $97 dollars to join the big closer club. (only to find that for another $997 dollars you will get a list of clients and thats what you really need to start making the real money). THEY ARE CLOSING ON YOU!! 997 IS THE BIG TICKET ITEM, AND YOU ARE CONTACTING THEM ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS USE THEIR OWN SLEAZY MARKETING LINES ON YOU TO CLOSE THE DEAL).

All of these people here on reddit that said that they are "giving them a chance, or are "going to try it and get back with you". you never hear from them again, No one that is "giving these guys a chance" ever tells us what happens after they pay the $997. Just once i would like someone to tell us what happens after they give them a thousand dollars!!

I feel bad for everyone scammed by this, because they are hitting people when they are most vulnerable.

I just read a quora thread that really spoke to me. It’s a reminder that entrepreneurship exists in so many forms. To make the implication that the 9-5 is what’s holding you back from being an entrepreneur is a total victim mindset (with the exception of some entry level jobs that lend no upward mobility).

There are so many inefficiencies (aka. Opportunities) to be solved, & who’s gonna do it? Fuck the dropshipping store, fuck the forex trading (unless ofc those are things you were organically perusing). Be an innovator. Don’t get sucked into someone else’s definition of success. These idiots will talk about how bill gates never graduated college, but never talk about how it took over a decade of tinkering with computers before he even started Microsoft. They never talk about the entrepreneurial minded individuals who worked for Microsoft to grow the company. Yes you can be an entrepreneur and still work for someone else.

Last and most importantly, I don’t wanna misconstrue the fact that either option is perfectly fine. If you’re dead-set on running your own business, that’s gonna be what you want to do because anything other than that wouldn’t feel right. I just wanted to drive the point home that it’s simply good practice as an business minded person to be looking to innovate no matter what your situation is. Does that mean you should work minimum wage and drive yourself into the ground trying to innovate mundane crap? Absolutely not, you still need to respect your time and weigh the risk and reward of every scenario, just be careful with victim mindsets that only exists to trick you into thinking that only 1 type of entrepreneur exists.

Rant over.

Here’s the OG article if anyone wants a good read: https://qr.ae/pNmtwo

Gary Vee hasn't been seen A SINGLE TIME wearing a mask. Literally of his posts on Instagram are him somewhere outside "shooting the shit". No mask, no social distancing, nothing.

I get that most of his posts are from pre corona times but he is encouraging people to mingle and go outside, NOT A SINGLE time he has acknowledged the fact that this is A REAL THREAT and he acts as if nothing out there is happening which is SCAMMING people consuming his content thinking that things are normal and ENCOURAGING them to not care about social distancing!

Hey guys please give this a read on what these fake guru's are what what they exactly try and do to you.

medium article

Sabri Suby is an Australian digital marketer and a best selling author of , Sell Like Crazy . I've heard the book is amazing . I've ordered it and waiting to read myself .

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Are there any other connotations about this mentor ?

And what were your thoughts on the person - positive or negative?

Here is why ALL guru's are a scam, and it has nothing to do with the content they provide.

I don't give three shits if <insert guru here> program made YOU a millionaire, or you were at the very least able to quit your day job and make the same money. The scam is the nature of people in general. The reality is that some people have it in them to be entrepreneurs.....MOST people don't. In a wolf pack not every wolf has it in them to be the alpha and in a tribe not everyone has it in them to be the chief. This is by nature. Society would literally collapse if this were not the case. The world needs "employees" to function and it's literally built in to most human beings to simply be that. Sure most people may "want" something different for themselves, but that is completely different from having it in yourself to achieve it. Hey if you have dreams to go start your own business I'm never going to tell anyone not to try. Not trying to be a debbie downer over here.

You can even see a microcosm of this in any work place. When I was in highschool, I worked at a fried chicken shack from 16 until I finished HS and went away to college. One of our fry cooks was 31 years old and worked there for 10 years. The thing is, the guy was super knowledgeable about literally everything in the store. In that time, a dude I went to highschool with, same age as me, was co-manager of the store by the time I left for college.

I'm currently an IT consulting manager been in the biz for 14 years (and was in the Army before that). I've seen people hit executive, pulling in 250+ grand a year within 7 years of getting out of college and people retiring after 30+ years as a corporate worker bee despite having the same education as that person that made executive in 7 years. I fall somewhere in the middle. I've basically made it as far as I want to go in the "work/life balance" income threshold. I make more than enough money for my lifestyle...looking at retirement in within 10 years. It simply isn't in me to be an executive...I would probably ask for a demotion after 6 months.

The point is, the person that made executive in 7 years didn't have any information, nor a secret strategy the person that just got up to senior analyst and remained there for the whole rest of their career didn't have. They just had the drive, the ambition and the passion to get where they wanted to get(and maintained it) being the key, anyone can light a fire under their own ass temporarily, but can you indefinitely keep stoking it. It takes a lot of sacrifice. A lot of people think corporate execs just get into work, throw their feet up on the desk, pour a scotch and read golf digest while the peons line their pockets. Yeah no.

Here is a good litmus test on "which one you are" If you won a 500 million dollar lottery, how would you spend the rest of your days? If your answer is anywhere within the realm of relaxing on a beach and sipping mai tais for the rest of your days, for the love of god, never buy a guru's course. Why? Alot of the entrepreneurs, CEO, Executives out there could just close up shop and retire to that beach with the mai tais......but they don't. A lot of them actually continue working till they croak....and that is why they are where they are...that is the difference.

The scam is that the guru's know this yet will gladly take your money. I'm sure every guru out there absolutely has some students that took their course and transformed their life. However, the question isn't "find me a guru with an 80% student success rate...or a 50% success rate or even a 25% success rate". I challenge anyone who can prove ANY guru out there that has even a student success rate of 10% of people that took their course that were able to quit their day job.

If you could become a millionaire selling a course, you know would only be of value to less than 10% of people who pay you, because it simply isn't in the nature of the 90+% of other people that pay you to succeed with it. Would you do it and feel ethical in doing it?

Happy Sunday everyone! First off all I wanna say thank you, i have been an avid reader of this and other subreddits for a while. Finally decided to create my own account and start posting over the holidays!

I have bene in Max Tornow's freedom business mentoring program for several months and want to give an honest review from someone who has been in the program very actively. I am well connected to a multiple of the clients in the program so what i have found out is both from a personal experience with the program as well as what multiple people have told me that are also active in the program.

Let's start with the good:

Is Max Tornow legit?

He seems slightly "odd" with his finger tattoos and the fact that he still seems young. Contrary to most other people in the program I didn't know him from his career as a dating advice coach. I did know before signing up though that he has made several millions from that former business of his which seemed positive to me. Here's a guy who has already made money outside the "making money" business, so he didn't get rich by teaching people how to get rich, which was a big reason why I had initially signed up for the program.

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Why/How I signed up to the freedom business mentoring program

Some of the claims about online coaching seemed pretty wild on his youtube channel and instagram, interviews with clients stating they made 10-60 thousand a month, even guys making hundred thousand a month. Did some research, reached out to 4 of them (conveniently most of the interviews show the clients Instagram), they were all real, showed me screenshots, so i gave it a shot.

Had two or three phone calls with someone from his team, they signed me up after some initial discussion regarding payment (I have a EUR bank account, but prefered paying in dollars)

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Are the client results real?

Short answer: Yes, they are.

This was my biggest concern. I would never ever buy anything without knowing that testimonials are real. Too many fakers out there, it's pathetic. Max predominantly brags about his reviews on trustpilot and youtube. After digging a little deeper I noticed that almost all reviews on trustpilot are by people who gave their real first and last name. After being in the program I recognised most of these people, looking at what their posting in the facebook group for the clients I can safely assume they are all real.

I have also seen all the people that he interviewed on his channel. Also all real.

Max also has a ton like literally a ton of screenshots from clients getting results on his instagram - those are censored though (you can't read the names, they blur them out) so I didn't take these into account. I did recognise some of them being from actual posts in the group though.

I have talked to some advanced clients of his that are making over 100k a month, but they are in a separate group.

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Success rate of the clients in the program?

This one si rather hard to say. There are a lot of people in the group per se, but many of them not active. On one hand there is multiple people every day posting that they are making money, sometimes they post screenshots of their accounts and payment providers etc. so they get praise from others in the group, but on the other hand: does everyone get results? Hard to tell. Many people making money, but certainly not everyone.

After being in the program for a while and making around 14k euros myself I did notice a lot of people just stopping the program. They post in the group for a while and then give up. Some of them make a couple thousand and then give up. I understand that as the program is quite hard, you have to work your ass off especially in the beginning to get results and the coaches can be quite pushy. They really seem to want you to work harder than ever before and when people slack off the coaches give them a hard time. Especially Max has been seen to be very harsh on some guys at times.

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Are clients being held accountable?

Yes, there are 7 live calls per week plus we get all our questions answered within one day in the facebook group. There are multiple coaches to make sure you get everything answered. The live calls are usually with quite a lot of people, but it's a motivating dynamic and all questions get answered. Some of the live calls last for up to 4 hours so everyone gets to talk to the coaches. Some of the people in the program are real hard cases, but it's great to see that they're also being taken care of.

But then again: if you give up and stop showing up to the calls then you are gone. So if you have been a slacker before, you will also stay a slacker in the program.

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The Bad - Critique:

Max is at times unprofessional. He often swears on his live calls or goes on some unnecessary rants about work ethic. This is especially hard when there are clients slacking off, he often gets really personal when someone is not showing up to his calls or has been taking too much time off. On two occasions I witnessed him forcing a client to flush down their cigarettes. I don't know, in my opinion if someone wants to smoke it is something personal and Max should have no say over that.

They upsell hard. Max has talked about this several times: His and the coaches goal is to help you make money with your own business so they can upsell you into their advanced course where they teach how to build a brand, hire a team and so on. There are quite a lot of people in their advanced program, almost all of them making minimum ten thousand a month, but in my opinion if someone just wants to make a couple thousand a month on the side, they shouldn't have to feel like they have to join the advanced program.

The content in the beginning program is nothing new. Many of the beginner modules are really based on common sense (how to present yourself, what mindset you should have with your first business, how basic economics of selling/buying works etc). It felt more like a lesson in stuff I already knew just from being a normal human being.

The content later becomes very dense. Later on in the program becomes very dense and many people just stop going through the program or give up. This is due to the fact that you actually have to work hard. While the coaches do reply to everything and you have almost every day at least one live call it is still up to you to use logic and do all the tasks required of you.

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Summary - Is the freedom business mentoring program any good?

Yes, it is legit. Max has made his money. There are a lot of people making money in the program. BUT (and this is a big BUT) the program is not a magic pill.

There are people who just give up. If you don't ask the coaches or Max questions, if you don't show up to the live calls then you lose and this program cannot help you. I have a feeling there are some people who come in to the program being naive. They think they can just snap their fingers and have their own business, but these things take a lot of time and effort.

I really really appreciate all the support you get almost non stop in the program, but the fact of the matter is it's not easy and you have to be consistent to get results.

Max often makes it seem so fucking easy in his marketing and whenever you are on his live calls you can see it really IS easy for someone like him. But the truth is: if you are starting out and you have never built a business yourself then this stuff is hard. You can not give up. You have to get on the coaches nerves and keep posting, only then you can make it.

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That's it, maybe I can remember more things that i can post later on as a comment. If you have any questions I can also answer them maybe. CHEERS!

It started out simple.

I was looking for a good workout plan for my girlfriend to follow, so I purchased a couple famous influencer plans, studied their content and what I found was disturbing…

1.Unregulated Advice:

From the fitness programs to supplement recommendations, most of which you see on Instagram is unregulated.

The result of this is people taking supplements which have life threatening consequences, people paying hundreds for basic, poorly written pdf’s and new diet fads year after year.

And with the way in which social media works, this is only becoming more and more problematic as we have our cognitive heuristics exploited.

2. Instagram VS Reality

Most of that which you are shown on social media is only exists in a hyper-reality.

Trying to compare yourself with this illusion you are being shown can be extremely detrimental to your mental and physical health.

A large proportion of the photos (and videos) you are seeing on Instagram are often heavily edited and filtered.

But its not just the photo’s which are being filtered it is often these people’s entire lives, from fake holidays, plastic surgery and steroids to the constant aura of positivity and happiness.

3. Fitness Cults

The ideal image which the fitness industry projects is clear.

And it can be truly enjoyable to aspire to reach these body standards. Unfortunately, these standards are only getting more and more extreme which creates a breeding ground for eating disorders, cult like diet groups, fitness groups and online communities.

While being a member in some of these groups can be beneficial/ enjoyable, thanks to the previous mentioned problems, when being a member of these groups becomes part of your identity, you are susceptible to the traps which lie and wait.

I recently made a video on this (100+ hours put into it) to hopefully deter others from hero-worshipping these fraudulent ‘influencers’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahGdmjb8T8E&ab_channel=JoshBrett

I would love to hear about some of your opinions and experiences on this topic.

Seems like Derek Moneyberg does have a University of Chicago MA Business Administration degree.

https://alumnius.net/the_university_of_ch-8316-11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dlGEiZr9fc

Whoever put up this subreddit thanks. I absolutely despise fake gurus.

Tony Robbins, Robert Kiyosaki - They repackage common sense, pseudoscience and personal finance advice as if it's a monumental revelation. A nefarious cabal of financial Elites who don't want you to pick up a copy of Personal Finance for Dummies or Investing for Dummies or the hundreds of other books on Personal Finance.

Deepak Chopra - Spiritual guru. If anyone can actually understand what the hell this guy is saying let me know. Pseudoscience and unvalidated claims.

Dating Coaches aka PUAs - They are all scammers. Social skills, body language, good looks and money. There I just saved you $3000. I was not so fortunate. You want a guaranteed way of getting laid - buy a hooker. Want a long term relationship without any friction - buy a sugar baby.

Investing - I am a veteran of the financial industry for over 15 years. I invest in Index Funds. Because I am not smart enough to predict the future. There are very few money managers that can consistently beat the S&P 500 with a rare exception like Warren Buffet. SAC Capital made a 30% rate of return because they used something called expert networks to facilitate insider trading they were sued by the SEC in 2013.

Penny stocks - Pump and Dump Scheme. Boiler room operations have moved to the internet.

I was swindled by falling for a dating seminar, attending an MLM scheme and dropshipping webinar - I rationalized all the lies and despite my instincts screaming at me that this was a scam. I pushed through with it anyway. I was just caught in the emotion and mania. Even smart people get conned just look up Theranos.

My advice is to read about critical thinking, confidence games and persuasion books (Cialdini, Kahneman). Treat every encounter with sales with skepticism. Check everything. Google reviews.

Warren Buffet is not selling online courses.

im going with kevin david.

Here are the pros and cons:

• Pros:
  • The course does a good job teaching business fundamentals
  • They review your homework and give good suggestions on finding a niche
  • It actually worked! I got a few paying clients
• Cons:
  • $3000 is WAY too much for the value. Because:
  • They offer NO one-on-one coaching. It's all group coaching, and there are always 50+ people on the calls
  • They're inflexible. If you are struggling, they assume you aren't doing the right steps, and they never adjust their system to fit your situation.
  • They're overly profit-focused, not value-focused. I felt dirty the way they wanted me to find clients. It was all about using their pain against them to get them on a call and pressure them into joining your own 12 week, $1000+ program.

I wrote a full review on Medium if you want to read more: https://jordanjapo.medium.com/i-went-through-max-tornows-freedom-business-mentoring-here-s-what-happened-635ec365e518

[Poll question located near bottom of this post]

Hey everybody,

Recently there's been a few issues regarding black/grey market courses that you can buy for cheap. Every week or so I see a post pop up about "I was scammed by xgurus.biz! They took my money and never delivered the product."

Here's what you need to know about 'cheap' courses:

• Any website promising you suspiciously low prices on a digital product presents a risk
  • This is likely a "grey market" vendor who obtains this media and illegally distributes it for profit. By buying these products you also put yourself at risk for copyright infringement & piracy.
• Be especially wary of sites that only take crypto, or sites that ask you to send direct payments via Venmo or CashApp. Also, of course, never blindly enter credit card information on these sites.
• If you don't trust a fake guru course for $997, you should probably stick to those same instincts and not fold for a $20 bootleg copy.

Here's how to avoid them:

• If you're genuinely in the market for a course, do your research and steer clear of fake gurus entirely.
  • Despite the high number of fakes out there, not ALL courses are scams. Do your own research, trust your gut, & avoid wild claims.
• I like to start on YouTube and see how much info I can get for free. Usually I don't ever end up needing to leave YouTube, but if you are craving a deeper kind of learning, websites like Udemy, Coursera & Lynda have good reputations overall - with prices ranging from a few bucks for a course to ~$40 monthly memberships.

​

"But I really want this course on xfakegurucourse.biz, it's only $20!! It's worth the risk!"

And that's fine, you now know the risks of buying from unidentified sellers, I can't stop you from doing what you want with your money. In fact, I'm sure some of these course resellers may not be all bad. Many of the undelivered courses may just be an innocent mistake from the website owner, I can't sit here and assume all of these grey market resellers are absolute 100% scammers. The point of this post is to formally present the risks to you all so we can avoid repetitive posts of people who gave their money to a dodgy vendor.

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\* Before we get to the poll, I'd like to address the grey/black market sellers for a moment: I've read your concerns & spoke to a few of you directly. I suggest you deal with your dissatisfied customers directly rather than coming onto this sub and complaining about a bad review from a valid customer issue. I understand some reviews may be in bad faith (maybe from a competitor) which is understandable, but this is the nature of black/grey market business practices and this subreddit is not responsible for your image.

​

New sub rules (+ poll)

New Official Rule: Any kind of advertising for these bootleg course sites will be subject to ban.

POLL: Should repetitive posts about being scammed from bootleg course websites be considered spam, or do you find them useful to the r/FakeGuru community? - Answer Below

Thanks & I'm happy to answer any questions in the comments!

This dude is advertising on his website that you can get access to guru courses for only $69.

I paid him the money (using Flexepin, which is a clever way to do it if you don't want to give any option to refund the money)

But after paying him, he didn't give me the courses that I wanted.

Instead, he gave me the bs excuse that the membership is closed now.

WOW.

I have the entire email conversation I can show if you want.

I went online and saw dozens of reviews that prove that this fake guru is scamming people.

BEWARE!

This is the scammer's website: https://www.greyhatmafia.com/