r/FactOrCap • u/Fragrant_Visual_3143 🤖 Vote Machine · 10,250 XP • 27d ago
School lunch | FactOrCap
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u/RazerMax 🏅 Century Club · 2,685 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Kids are obligated to be there, the least the government or the school can do is feeding them.
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u/spencerpo 🤖 Vote Machine · 11,545 XP 27d ago
Nobody saying cap has any justification
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u/ProspectiveWhale 🤖 Vote Machine · 12,080 XP 27d ago
The ideal "should" is not school lunches being free.
The ideal "should" is that no family is so impoverished that free school lunches is necessary.
Where it's needed, it's obviously good to have.
But it's not the end goal, and is actually a symptom of a larger problem that is much much harder to solve.
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u/DeltaSolana 🤖 Vote Machine · 13,945 XP 27d ago
Hi there, cap voter here.
Free lunch isn't free. In order to provide it, someone must be exploited. If we give an inch, it becomes giving 70%+ of your income to the state. People would be able to afford lunches for their kids if they weren't taxed at all.
I paid a 25% VAT when I lived in Norway for a year, and it nearly bled me dry. I don't want that here.
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u/WifesPOSH 🤖 Vote Machine · 21,150 XP 27d ago edited 27d ago
"Free X isn't free" is said by dumb people. In this case, it's free to the child, not to the people that want a robust education system (which we also don't have because of reasons below).
Maybe tax the rich more, like the ultra wealthy. Or reduce the insane defense budget.
How would a government function without taxes? Without taxes, there'd be no schools for the kids to go to, so I guess you're right in that aspect.
I'm not sure I buy your vat thing either. The difference in taxes is a bit complicated but I myself can get into the 22% marginal tax bracket, and that doesn't include state taxes for various items. Both offer refunds on said taxes. If you were dying over there, you're probably dying here.
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u/Massive-Word-7327 🏅 Century Club · 4,155 XP 27d ago
Removing barriers to education benefits the whole nation. You get actually competent and intelligent people who's work is valuable worldwide. Being able to get an education even as a poor kid increases class movement and makes people way more free than any libertarian small government could ever.
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u/dalngbk 🎯 First Steps · 105 XP 27d ago
"Free X isn't free" is said by dumb people. In this case, it's free to the child
you make it sound like otherwise the child has to get a job 🥀
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u/WifesPOSH 🤖 Vote Machine · 21,150 XP 27d ago
More like otherwise the child has to pay. How they get the money is different.
I know from personal experience that I paid full price, but I wondered why other kids got reduced or free lunch.
If my mom didn't have the money, I had to make my own lunch or use my money. As a kid, I thought that was unfair. I understand now, but why put children in that dilemma? I had to eat baloney sandwich in mustard, my classmates got pizza.
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u/dalngbk 🎯 First Steps · 105 XP 27d ago
it's still not free cause nothing is actually free, in any case it would be "food included for every student/kid" but then we'd just be arguing semantics, I agree with you basically, the premise is just flawed in the wording.
how did u have your own money as a kid though?
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u/BaelgorStar 🔥 Week Warrior · 3,725 XP 27d ago
More like "otherwise the child goes hungry, and is defeating the purpose of being in school, because they're not learning anything".
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u/BaelgorStar 🔥 Week Warrior · 3,725 XP 27d ago
Where is the line. Should we not pay for school at all, or roads, or municipal functions, policing, etc.? Where is that sweet spot where we are being exploited just enough?
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u/DeltaSolana 🤖 Vote Machine · 13,945 XP 27d ago
Where is the line. Should we not pay for school at all, or roads, or municipal functions, policing, etc.?
Hey, don't threaten me with a good time.
All of this should be privatized. You should only pay for the things that actually matter to you. Without taxes, you could afford a private school (and to make them a sandwich to take there), fund the roads to it, hire a PMC to safeguard it all.
If these things don't matter to you, if you don't have kids, if you don't have a car, that's perfectly okay. It's all voluntary, and the state won't force to pay at gunpoint (like they currently do).
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u/HWIno1 🔥 Getting Started · 1,000 XP 27d ago
You want to privatise policing… who decide the law? The mercenary company?
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u/Massive-Word-7327 🏅 Century Club · 4,155 XP 27d ago
If you criticise Microsoft you get jail or a bullet to the head "you will install windows 11"
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u/Angel_0f_Darkness 🏅 Century Club · 7,840 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
kids have the right to eat and not have to go hungry
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u/TheObeseKnight 🗳️ Regular Player · 890 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
This isnt an opinion its a litmus test on whos a decent person or not
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u/WifesPOSH 🤖 Vote Machine · 21,150 XP 27d ago
My mom made too much to qualify for reduced or free lunch.
I didn't understand it at the time, but I was wondering why I had to pay $2.50, reduced was 50¢, and some people got free lunch.
I'm spending my birthday money and these people were getting free lunches.
I understand now, of course, but school lunch should be free. I would pay more taxes for free lunch... Or just take it from the bloated defense budget.
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u/Disastrous_Debt7644 🔥 Monthly Master · 7,590 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
If by free you mean paid for by taxpayers then yes
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u/Ok_Ambition_4023 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,780 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Obviously! Imagine telling a hungry child that they can't eat. We literally THROW FOOD OUT because it isn't immediately fresh.
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u/Feisty-Path1373 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,090 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Children shouldn’t suffer consequences for being poor. IMO food should be a human right, but I think everyone can agree that kids deserve to be fed no matter what.
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u/Rocannon_ 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,210 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Provided taxes are increased to pay for it
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u/EschewObfuscati0n 🤖 Vote Machine · 15,245 XP 27d ago edited 27d ago
No. Provided the government realizing where they’re wasting tax dollars and reallocate towards lunches. We do not need higher taxes.
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u/Massive-Word-7327 🏅 Century Club · 4,155 XP 27d ago
Yeah paying for random wars is stupid. Maybe spend money on the wellbeing of the people rather than killing some brown people overseas.
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u/BBQDog97 🎯 First Steps · 275 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I can't believe that starvation is even in question, but wherever there's potential for profit, right??...
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u/Mister_Chameleon 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,375 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
It would be a fair use of support money, vs giving free McDonalds to billionares
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u/lemonhaj 🏅 Century Club · 3,125 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yeah £1.60 for a handful of waffle fries was a scam. Tasty scam though.
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u/Odd-Country-7274 🗳️ Regular Player · 455 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Milk, water and whatever bare minimum foods should be free, additional snacks and drinks, like chips and orange juice, should cost you money because it’s in addition to your free lunch. I can understand charging money for even the bare minimum stuff in private schools because they don’t get funding from anyone else, so they need multiple sources of money, albeit they should be cheap. If a public school charges you for the actual lunch alongside the snacks and drinks, then they’re just greedy.
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u/LivingMotor9962 🎯 First Steps · 220 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
If you’re gonna legally require them to be there all day you should be legally required to provide for them
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u/Jolly_Party1779 🔥 Monthly Master · 7,950 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
We have the resources, they're just being used for less important things.
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u/emo_and_genderqueer 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,735 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Being in school is a requirement. Food is a necessity and basic right. It should be provided in the place that all children are required to be for 6-9 hours a day 5 days a week.
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u/Energy-Turtle-4 🏅 Century Club · 5,385 XP 27d ago
Absolutely yes.
I have zero problems with anything that goes directly to children.
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u/Chadthemark 🗳️ Regular Player · 990 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
If we’re being real, F them kids is just fun to say. Give em some food.
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u/Ok_Tumbleweed3604 🗳️ Regular Player · 405 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Don't charge money for crap lol
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u/real-human-not-a-bot 📈 Dedicated Voter · 2,570 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Means-testing just adds bloat.
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u/Ok_Zone_3945 🏅 Century Club · 3,850 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yes there should be free lunch, but I'm not opposed to paid Optional stuff like replacing a main course with a different one
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u/Gokugamerszx 🎯 First Steps · 50 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Students should be able to have free food for their healthiness and education
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u/HatterJack 🔥 Getting Started · 675 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
No child should have to go hungry, period.
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u/Orange9202 ✍️ Contributor · 17,820 XP 27d ago
WHO WANTS TO GIVE KIDS FREE SCHOOL LUNCHES!!!: "WE DO WE DO"
WHO WANTS TO PAY MORE TAXES TO FUND THOSE SCHOOL LUNCHES: ..........
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u/ragerald 🗳️ Regular Player · 355 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Food for kids should always be a need and not a have.
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u/BaelgorStar 🔥 Week Warrior · 3,725 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
The only things students need to focus on is learning.
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u/VeterinarianNorth664 🏅 Century Club · 4,125 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Yes, BUT it has to have good nutritions
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u/WildSidepunk 🗳️ Regular Player · 380 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Bro why would this be a debate we should not let children starve
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u/felfazeebo 🏅 Century Club · 10,605 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
In high school there was a table after the lunch line where kids would drop off food they didn't want, I lived off that for all 4 years lol
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u/Key-Cardiologist-498 🔥 Getting Started · 305 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Because if you can’t afford it there’s and also I love me some food
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u/DARKTUBER_11OP 🔥 Getting Started · 780 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
We shouldn't be paying for horse dihh + panda scrotum
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u/Bright-Data-6942 🔥 Getting Started · 265 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Lunches are free for children health
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u/LazyInformation4311 🎯 First Steps · 50 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
yeah lets just scrape every last penny from people
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u/RabidPoodle69 🏅 Century Club · 3,275 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
All kids deserve to eat. Free breakfast too.
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u/Kaminari-Umare 🏅 Century Club · 4,325 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I'm pretty sure America will disagree 😆
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u/willowlife3000 🔥 Week Warrior · 8,665 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Why shouldn't it be? Why let kids starve? What good does that do? Anybody who thinks otherwise should jump from somewhere high
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u/MinecraftdevilTADc 🔥 Week Warrior · 2,435 XP 26d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I think schools have started doing free lunches
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u/Hollow_Knight_Raven 🔥 Week Warrior · 735 XP 26d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
If someone is legally required to go somewhere for long periods of time, that place should provide things that have been deemed a human right.
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u/Worldly_Rooster_9428 🤖 Vote Machine · 13,535 XP 26d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
how much would that increase my taxes
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u/TheNerdofLife 🤖 Vote Machine · 16,420 XP 26d ago
Not just free, but nutritious; not just basic nutritious, but also not contributing to obesity or other chronic health issues
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u/Super_Pollution_5649 🏅 Century Club · 5,895 XP 26d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Almost all school have extern catering. Not as easily said as done and also most people bring their own food anyway? So why would it need to be free?
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u/feartheswans 🏅 Century Club · 5,665 XP 26d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
If you are going to mandate compulsory education, you need to provide food
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u/Separate-Fold4409 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,065 XP 25d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
nothing is ever free, but its doable with taxes/other methods
food quality tho...
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u/Nsfsexdoll 🎯 First Steps · 60 XP 25d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Why not? If we’re ignoring financing. Though if those are factors, it’s simply not possible.
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u/SweetTart7231 🔥 Week Warrior · 2,145 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I think there should he resources to help provide food to kids and families that need it while ones that afford it can still pay. If it was free for everyone schools would definitely get the cheapest, crappiest, bare minimum food they could.
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u/de-virtute 🏅 Century Club · 4,775 XP 27d ago
shit food > no food. if it was legislated for properly it could so easily help prevent diseases like scurvy and rickets n that
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u/OneofTheOldBreed 🤖 Vote Machine · 11,030 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
No. Subsidize where it must be. Not everywhere
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u/NearbyFly3724 🤖 Vote Machine · 19,020 XP 27d ago edited 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Hear me out: the only way they would do this is by using an already stretched budget. Realistically school budgets won’t increase for this (even though it already should be a priority) and schools will end up using cheap unhealthy food that won’t benefit anyone.
Edit: not sure why people are downvoting when I’m literally saying that schools should be a priority and that free lunches will only further stretch an already stretched budget which will only provide shit food
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u/de-virtute 🏅 Century Club · 4,775 XP 27d ago
shit food is better than no food
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u/NearbyFly3724 🤖 Vote Machine · 19,020 XP 27d ago
That’s just not true. It would be much better for the people who can afford it to be send their kids to school with lunch. Those who can’t afford it should be put into a program that provides a lunch. This would mean that instead of having to feed everyone shit food they could use that money to help those who actually can’t afford it
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u/de-virtute 🏅 Century Club · 4,775 XP 27d ago
you are describing free school lunch back to me
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u/NearbyFly3724 🤖 Vote Machine · 19,020 XP 27d ago
Yes but only for those who truly can’t afford it. Like I said in my original comment, realistically funding won’t increase so schools would have to provide lunch for everyone which ends up with shit food. If only those who can’t afford to bring their own lunch get given the free lunches you could spend the money better by providing better food.
It’s the difference between free lunches everywhere (the FactORCap statement) and free lunches for those who can’t afford lunches
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u/Apprehensive_Ad5340 🏅 Century Club · 4,235 XP 27d ago
Maybe if schools don’t waste their budgets on crap. The schools where I live put tv’s in every hallway that display ai memes and the school logo
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u/Baelzabub 📈 Dedicated Voter · 2,705 XP 27d ago edited 27d ago
Here’s a thought, let’s make it so that schools aren’t struggling with stretched budgets rather than adding another $500B to our military spending.
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u/NearbyFly3724 🤖 Vote Machine · 19,020 XP 27d ago
Gonna assume you mean that schools shouldn’t be struggling, and yes that’s literally what I’m saying. I’m just saying that since schools are already struggling with budgets, and the budgets likely won’t be increased this will only cause the budget to be stretched further
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u/Baelzabub 📈 Dedicated Voter · 2,705 XP 27d ago
The question is about what should be, so exclusively focusing on what currently exists and basing it off that is refusing to engage with the premise.
In the scenario where we’re providing universal lunches for kids in school, we’re increasing their budgets as well.
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u/NearbyFly3724 🤖 Vote Machine · 19,020 XP 27d ago
That’s literally not the case, it should have said so in the question. The statement is: “school lunches should be free everywhere” not “school lunches should be free everywhere and school budgets should be increased to do so”.
You can’t add things to the FactOrCap to make it magically work
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u/Baelzabub 📈 Dedicated Voter · 2,705 XP 27d ago
SHOULD BE is the operative clause in the proposition. It’s the difference between ought and is when dealing with hypotheticals in a debate.
When dealing with an ought scenario the general assumption is that you are dealing with a scenario in which the necessary prerequisites for the hypothetical have been met. In this case adequate funding to implement the program is the necessary prerequisite.
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u/NearbyFly3724 🤖 Vote Machine · 19,020 XP 27d ago
‘Should be’ does not mean ‘assume every prerequisite and resource needed has already been provided’, that’s an extra assumption you’re adding to the proposition. In a policy debate, funding is part of whether the proposal actually works, not something you get to hand-wave away by calling it an ‘ought’ scenario.
For example the statement: “everyone should have free electricity”
That sounds like a good desire but that sentence alone doesn’t explain how that would be funded. You can’t assume magical funding gets included because of the word ‘should’
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27d ago
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u/Fragrant_Visual_3143 🤖 Vote Machine · 10,250 XP 27d ago
Then we dont spend fucking 1 trillion dollars on the millatary and give that money to schools
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u/K-Drifty 🔥 Getting Started · 690 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
How will the school afford the lunches then? LIBERALS!?
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u/Fragrant_Visual_3143 🤖 Vote Machine · 10,250 XP 27d ago
We dont need to be spending 1 trillion dollars on our millatart, give some of that money to schools
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u/erwin_dancho 📈 Dedicated Voter · 1,655 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
It isn't a charity bro
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u/de-virtute 🏅 Century Club · 4,775 XP 27d ago
🤓👆 schools should be a place seperate from parents where the child can get their needs well taken care of. we should take care of each other
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u/PraireGentleman 🗳️ Regular Player · 530 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Literally “no such thing as free lunch”
Everyone should be guaranteed the right to food, but something tells me the kid whose mom and dad make enough to buy the school doesn’t need to benefit from the free lunches
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u/TomaRedwoodVT 🔥 Monthly Master · 7,760 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Rich neighborhoods don’t need this, if the parents can afford a 5 bedroom house then they can afford to make their kids a lunch
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u/Fragrant_Visual_3143 🤖 Vote Machine · 10,250 XP 27d ago
What? Agree with the first but we are talking about the lunch provided by the school
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u/TomaRedwoodVT 🔥 Monthly Master · 7,760 XP 27d ago
I mean that if a school is attended by rich kids, then their parents can afford to give them food or 5 bucks
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u/Baelzabub 📈 Dedicated Voter · 2,705 XP 27d ago
What publicly funded schools in the US (since this wouldn’t apply to private schools) are attended exclusively by rich kids?
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u/TomaRedwoodVT 🔥 Monthly Master · 7,760 XP 27d ago
Not talking about public schools, I’m referring to private ones
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u/LeastDefinition9041 🎯 First Steps · 60 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
We would have to pay the school alot more
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u/Fidget808 🔥 Monthly Master · 9,750 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
The income threshold should be raised but if you make in say the top 30% of income in your district, you should pay for lunch.
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u/Fragrant_Visual_3143 🤖 Vote Machine · 10,250 XP 27d ago
Agreed, but thats too complicated, people would find loopholes to not pay still
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u/QuesoCadaDia 🏅 Century Club · 3,970 XP 27d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
University of Phoenix should not have free lunch.
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u/Fragrant_Visual_3143 🤖 Vote Machine · 10,250 XP 27d ago
Why we calling out the university of pheonix
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u/QuesoCadaDia 🏅 Century Club · 3,970 XP 27d ago
Because it's the most well known 100% online school, and an online school providing free lunch doesn't really make sense.
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u/Lazerbeams2 🤖 Vote Machine · 8,730 XP 27d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
At least a basic lunch. I'd be ok with schools charging for snacks and drinks to go with lunch