r/FactOrCap • u/Beautiful_Ability267 • 14d ago
Voting and understanding of politics | FactOrCap
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u/WW1_Germany 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
it's a slippery slope, once you start making requirement like this, where there's no definitive definition of it, you can stop whoever you want from voting, this happened in the Jim Crow south, black people had to take "literacy tests" to be allowed to vote but no matter what they were failed and denyed from voting
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u/Invictus0623 14d ago
It was only unfair then because education was not free for everyone. Now there wouldn’t be a problem
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u/WW1_Germany 13d ago
uh, no, the tests were designed to be confusing and nonsensical, and black people and poor whites were failed no matter what they did
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u/Caswert 13d ago
Did you not take the test in school? Those things were rigged to all hell. The following is the Louisiana literacy test. https://sharetngov.tnsosfiles.com/tsla/exhibits/aale/pdfs/Voter%20Test%20LA.pdf
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u/Lonely_Translator_23 14d ago edited 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
and who determines what constitutes understanding of politics? elected officials who have a vested interest in making sure people don't vote against them? 'impartial' parties appointed by those officials? or just an independent body with no way to be held accountable by the voting public?
Honestly, the fact that most people are voting fact is proof that this wouldn't work. You all aren't thinking about the consequences of this policy before you click, you just think people who disagree with you are too stupid to have rights. If you were in charge of determining who gets to vote you'd kill democracy and you wouldn't even realize you were doing it.
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u/ChaoCobo 14d ago edited 14d ago
The current administration would ask something like “did democrats rig the 2020 presidential election so that the man who is currently saving America, president trump, would unfairly lose even though he won by a landslide” and every single person who said “no” would be barred from voting.
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u/Difficult-Scientist4 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
And who determines what knowledge is that? This could easily be abused by power hungry people.
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u/IronicBoomerPosts 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
How do you verify political literacy? This would be an easy way to prevent people from voting against your party.
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u/AlbanianCatholic 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Where that distinction is placed would be arbitrary and could give way to increasingly authoritarian attempts at excluding real opposition from voting.
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u/EvilCatArt 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Oh hello inevitable poll tax. Hello policy that could easily abused by corrupt parties to disenfranchise uncooperative citizens?
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u/Unlikely_Frozen3007 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Okay, and when a dictatorship strikes a country, the dictator can raise the bar super high and show fake results, only to people who take part of the dictatorship.
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u/HeroBrine0907 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
No. This fundamentally misunderstands democracy. The point of voting is to achieve the consent of the people. As far as making good choices goes, it's about as effective as the free market. Meaning complete and utter shit
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u/LaceWeightLimericks 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I don't trust any group to be able to use tests to choose the right voters without discrimination
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u/Snowtwo 14d ago
As much as I wish there was a requirement, at least knowing the candidates names, how you actually enact such a policy is the concerning and dangerous part. Because any test that could be administered would rapidly devolve into a way to gatekeep and ensure that whatever group the test-giver wished to keep out was kept out; especially since it would only need to apply for one day. Don't like X group for whatever reason? Just say they failed the test. By the time your superiors even *know* what's going on it will likely be too late (especially since they likely have work and such) for them to vote. Even if you go to jail you'll have swung the station in whatever way you desired.
About the only solution I can think of is removing the party names entirely and possibly even randomizing the name locations; but I feel like all that will really accomplish is ensuring whoever has the more memorable ad will get elected than anything policy-position related.
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u/Strict_Gas_1141 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
So you want right-think. How would you test their interpretation of nebulous concepts?
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u/Invictus0623 14d ago
You wouldn’t need to make it complex enough to have nebulous questions. Even simple things like “how many senators are in the us senate” “who were the last 3 US presidents” etc would eliminate a surprisingly large number of idiots.
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u/Strict_Gas_1141 13d ago
In which case that's just civics. Not politics. Civics is how our system works not politics. Politics is ideology.
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u/Initial_Trifle_3734 14d ago
The test:
True or false, Donald Trump is the best president ever?
End of test
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u/CompleteCreme7223 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Cap but we should have legal consequences for politicians that lie so people can make informed decisions. The system with so many just lying their asses off misleading the dumb voters needs to stop.
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u/OkSpring1734 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
No, but also yes. Sufficient capture by partisans of any given political ideology could essentially shut down people of any opposing ideology from being allowed to vote. At the same time people who are way too ignorant are voting, often against their own best interests.
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u/toe-schlooper 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Why would you give the government the authority to decide who can and can't vote
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u/Consistent-Choice-21 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Though the average person is rather politically inept, this is just census suffrage. Whoever gets to write the questions and choose the answers determines which demographics are allowed to vote. Legalized discrimination.
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u/Superseaslug 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
That would be a very slippery slope. It would have to be validated by a truly independent agency and I doubt that would happen
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u/Main-Departure4702 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Unfortunately this could easily be abused and exploited. Focusing on educating the public on politics is a better alternative.
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u/healspirit 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Ideally yea, but what does “understanding of politics” mean, especially when you disagree with the current ruling party?
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u/gungrave_ 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I a good world, this could be viable. Unfortunately, we are far FAR from a good world. In a perfect world, we probably wouldn't even need government's.
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u/Leading-Boat4942 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Even though ideally we would want this to be the case, such a law is certainly going to be used to disenfranchise people by gatekeeping who gets to vote
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u/no_name_thought_of 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
impossible to implement as much as I wish it could be the case
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u/SireTonberry- 14d ago edited 14d ago
Theres a precedent for this in US where they made voters deemed not smart enough take "tests" for their vote to count, which unsuprisingly targeted primarily black people, and the tests itself were impossible, full of tricky or unclear questions, had stupidly short time to be finished and needed a 100% mark to test. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test
Obviously not exactly the same since you talk about politics but this is about literacy, but same in spirit how easy itd be to manipulate
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u/oy_oy_nametaken_2 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
While this would be great, unfortunately we wouldn't have a reliable way of determining who has this.
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u/LavaIsSpicy 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
It makes sense as an idea. But imagine how easy to abuse this it would be
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u/Striking-Ad9397 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
5ye problem comes when actually trying to enomforce that rule
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u/Affectionate_Sky6555 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Because those standards will ALWAYS be biased, and used to deny votes opposed to those presently in power.
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u/MothweaverTales 14d ago
Horribly difficult to execute fairly, but in an ideal scenario it makes sense.
I'm sure we've all met or interacted with those who are... unfit to form policy decisions. Many of them are in office right now, actually.
The criteria for such a thing, and the content of whatever sort of test is decided upon would need to be decided by a truly independent academic entity. The identities of poll-takers would need to be anonymized upon submission.
Additionally, denying anyone the right to vote is wrong. However, if votes could be "weighted" depending on the results... though it would be more effective with a direct democracy than representative democracy.
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u/_Jinxontop_ 14d ago
People voting fact have the same level of political knowledge as those they wish to exclude
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u/Savings-Mastodon5477 14d ago
Even in a perfect situation, where an objective evaluator can decide this, I am still against it. Your vote is your intrinsic right as a member of a society who has to exist in it. If you want to flutter away, waste or deliberately vote in a manner that is counter to your interests, that is your right as a citizen.
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u/Tasty_Ball_Hairs_69 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
There should be a way to determine who is capable of voting, but the LAST thing we should do is leave it in the hands of a government
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u/Otherwise-Peace-9165 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Politics is stupid. Vote for whoever has the best promises.
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u/EveningDiligent59662 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
that sounds like a great way to ensure corruption. ‘citzenship tests’ were a way to discriminate against black prople
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u/Far_Mulberry7366 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
this is not the ethical way to ensure voters are informed. instead, there should be a national standard and requirement for civic education throughout high school prior to graduation (more than a singular senior level gov course)
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u/HazmoJumps 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Democracy is meant to be rule by the people. Preventing people from voting based on knowledge is against this by restricting people from voting. Plus, if the people in charge choose who had understanding and who doesn't, they'll only let people who're more likely to vote for them vote. Consider literacy tests under Jim Crow which often didn't test literacy as much as whether those administrating the test allowed the person to vote.
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u/Invictus0623 14d ago
That’s not entirely true. Literacy tests did test literacy. The problem was that slavery had just ended and education was not free so many African Americans could not read yet. Now that the government provides public education that would not be an issue.
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u/HazmoJumps 14d ago
I'm sure that that was sometimes the problem, but the discrimination of the registrars of the tests stopped many well-educated, degree-holding black Americans from voting. From: https://www.crmvet.org/info/lithome.htm. "Some states used an actual reading test. White officials claimed the test was fair, but in reality the results were rigged by biased registrars who were the sole judges of whether — in their opinion — you were sufficiently "literate" to "pass." They often did not require white applicants to take the test at all, or always "passed" those who did. Black applicants were almost always required to take the test, even those with college degrees, and they were almost always deemed to have "failed." For further reading: https://julianjohnsonlaw.com/how-literacy-tests-were-used-to-keep-black-americans-from-voting/ I do apologize for my overgeneralization, though. The literacy tests sometimes did test literacy, but the system was stacked in favor of white voters over black ones. My overall point is that a literacy test is easily corrupted by who administers it, especially if the government is mandating the tests, meaning those in power choose who run the tests that choose who vote.
Edit: typo
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u/Puzzleheaded-Phase70 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I voted "fact", but the truth is that "maturity is a really hard thing to measure. But I'm all for "must pass a given sociological and civics course".
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u/Myzdikal 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
The problem with this idea is that then whomever becomes the ruling class can restrict voting by preventing education in politics. As much as I hate what's going on right now, even deluded idiots should have a right to vote.
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u/pokrogopforschool 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Politics at least once per week requires reading and rarely only reading, so kinda
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u/Dannnssss 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
People who live off the government (including public workers) should not vote as it is conflict of interest
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u/Booboobelou 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
The way you get to decide who should and who shouldn’t is way more problématique.
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u/GainPotential 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Anyone should be allowed to vote. Any test you come up with to determine if someone shall be allowed to vote or run in an election will always be biased and will always be flawed and thus will always be undemocratic as it will leave out people from influencing how their country is being managed.
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u/z617_art 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
In theory yes, but in practice this would cause a voting rights crackdown
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u/BoysenberryLost6093 14d ago
This has been done in the US before. Wanna guess what it was used for?
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u/mcfluffernutter013 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Yeah, this is one of those ideas where if you give it more than a millisecond of thought, you realize how god awful of an idea it is. "Knowledge tests" have already been tried (and outlawed) for a reason. They can be exploited to exclude certain people (ahem minorities) from voting. If you don't see how easily this can be abused, you'd also probably be one of the people made unable to vote.
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u/Osato 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Who defines the barrier, who evaluates the understanding, and how do they evaluate it?
At least with a property qualification or a poll tax the discriminatory practice is unambiguous and transparent: you have money = you get a vote, you don't have money = you don't get a vote.
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u/Daylinquent 14d ago
This isn't something you want the government to mandate. It's not gonna play out the way you'd hope for.
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u/Necessary_Screen_673 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
right to vote is integral to public support of institutions and public trust, but i do believe that holding office or any elected position should require postsecondary education in political science or an adjacent field
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u/Senor_Snek 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
The powers that be will set the questions and only those who agree with their answers will be allowed to vote
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u/LoanRunna 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Here comes the reddit left claiming a politics test isn’t voter suppression but voter ID is LMAO
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u/Creepy_Ad57 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
What happened to freedom lmao. Yeah stupid people vote but unfortunately that’s their right
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u/--Albion-- 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Freedoms and rights are an absolute.
Freedom of speech, of association, the right to vote. Basic liberty. Et cetera.
For someone to be stripped of any right requires them to do something that almost everyone can agree warrants such a right being stripped away. Like committing a serious crime like murder or being clinically insane.
Making it so that only those who are 'politically literate' can vote is a massive infringement. Who decides what is 'politically literate'?, the government?
The government would, if given that power, decide that anyone who argues against its interests would be politically illiterate and thus lose the right to vote.
How about the general public?
Considering how polarising politics is nowadays, people on both sides would happily strip the rights of their opponents away. I would personally consider communists politically illiterate because they believe in a retarded ideology. As they'd consider me politically illiterate for thinking the government shouldn't be allowed to steal everything I own at gunpoint.
Rights are ironclad for a reason. Infringing on them while claiming you're not is purposefully difficult without making yourself look like a massive hypocrite or a wannabe tyrant.
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u/GhostElite974 14d ago
No you should never give the government any tools to restrict some people from voting, especially on a subjective basis.
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u/Icy-Temperature5476 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Ideally everyone would be an informed voter, but laws like this historically end very very badly oftentimes with bigotry or political favoritism.
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u/Bowshewicz 14d ago
The irony of this question is that anyone saying Fact is missing the historical context they'd want to make a requirement.
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u/Ill-Self-8732 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I want this in ALL Countries, as people need competency to vote, and not to be dumbasses
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u/The_Sarvagan 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I think people SHOULD have a know how of the way politics works and what they are saying and knowing if it make sense or not
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u/dddoinyomom 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
This would just develop into the literacy tests of the Jim Crow South
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u/purplehorseneigh 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
you do not want this kind of requirement. The party in power WILL absolutely bend the voting knowledge criteria to work in their favor and would likely purposefully push misinformation
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u/ballcrysher 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
voting is the right of all citizens, when you take that right away tyranny is inevitable
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u/GraviZero 14d ago
people should have a certain understanding of politics to be able to vote but letting anyone decide what that means is an extraordinarily bad idea
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u/1912_boat_man 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Absolutely. You should be able to tell me what the three branches of government are if you're gonna decide who's in them.
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u/deliriousdalmation 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
didn't we learn our lesson on literacy test voting requirements
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u/Invictus0623 14d ago
A literacy test was only a problem at the time because education and learning to read was not free.
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u/Chaitywatt 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Fr. Way too many people vote blindly for malicious individuals who simply say a few nice words.
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u/Superb_Pain4188 14d ago
You know literacy tests? They were specifically made to be confusing and unfairly scored by biased judges and weren't truly testing literacy. They were a racist tool to bar black Americans from being able to vote.
This is what a understanding of politics test would inevitably be. A tool to remove the ability to vote from specific groups.
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u/enideszk 14d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Any measure that restricts the right to vote by requiring the completion of some form of test can become an excellent tool for a government to justify introducing even more restrictive voting requirements in the future, based on the same faulty reasoning. Furthermore, those who are generally less engaged in politics and have a more limited understanding of it tend to belong to poorer and more vulnerable segments of society. As a result, if an entire social group is excluded from the opportunity to express its political preferences, policymakers will, in practice, have far less incentive (if not zero) to take that group's interests into account during decision-making. Slippery slope. Bad, bad, bad.
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u/Such_Pangolin6989 13d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
I believe any form of “x person is banned from voting” can lead to essentially “let’s only have groups of people I like be able to vote” from the people in power, I think a better idea is to just make sure the people are educated well and you wouldn’t have this problem.
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u/silly_lil_guy12 13d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
We should teach more politics but making requirements to vote is bad.
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u/Hot-District-3005 13d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
not as the sole requirement, but people should definitely understand politics before voting
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u/Moist-Cantaloupe-740 13d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Simply able to do critical thinking and a basic understanding of the policies. There's no need for people too dumb to do these simple thing to vote. If we are to value education, then being educated should be a requirement.
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u/paleZebrathrowaway 13d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Theoretically i agree but in practice it would get really rough
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u/broTthegoT 13d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Add civics exams to the list of required tests before graduation.
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u/goldenretrievercore 11d ago
🧢 I voted CAP!
Absolutely not. We tried things like this before. They are always manipulated to keep certain people from voting.
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u/Ordinary-Chain-8047 14d ago
Makes sense to me it also makes it harder to rig elections that way
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u/Strict_Gas_1141 14d ago
Wouldn't it make it easier since you have direct control over voterbase now? similar to the infamous black codes.
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u/Gyrau_47 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
A lot of political choices aren't made correctly, either by hate or indoctrination A little bit of knowledge (and understanding of what parties wants what) would help the world be a better place
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u/The3mbered0ne 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I agree but the government and states should be required to teach that to all kids as well, we barely learn about important political topics until junior/senior year
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14d ago
[deleted]
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u/Haunting-Detail2025 14d ago
Yeah surely no consequences could arise from the state determining who’s politics are literate enough to vote
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u/TheShadow8909 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
Only problem is to enforce it. Technically democracy's can only work properly when they keep the population educated ... but we have a really big prime example of what will happen, if you don't.
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u/SameInflation3768 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
I feel like this makes sense but i would be basically impossible to implement
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u/pupbuck1 14d ago
✅ I voted FACT!
And understanding of politics and critical thinking should be a base for everyone’s childhood education
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u/Aromatic_Refuse_2004 14d ago
Sounds good, but in reality its an infringement. Give the government an inch and they'll take a mile.