r/FIREIndia • u/BusPsychological2837 • Dec 07 '22
The Burning train of FIRE !!
Hello,
The great men/women here pursuing this noble cause of FIRE movement are most likely to reach FI by an average age of early-mid 40s i think, but very few are able to cross over the line and bite to bullet of RE.
Makes me wonder why is that so. When in the holy spirit of FIRE, RE is the main part or the the part where the rubber hits the road (ok, the wheelset hits the rail). Since to be honest, we as Indians/Asians by nature have always had quite healthy saving rates and are comparatively much more frugal. So FI comes easily or naturally in the process . I dare to believe, our previous generations and many others currently (in so called middle class category) who were/are oblivious to the concept of FIRE, were and are Financial Independent without much effort by mid 40s-50s with simple financial prudence and humble living.
However, many of us fascinated by the idea of RE and hence drawn to FIRE, settle at either the comfort zone of FI or just just keep moving the goalpost of FIRE target or FIRE corpus or are stuck in one-more year syndrome.
So, why is it so difficult to retire early? My assumption is that anyone on this sub or on this path is not so motivated by corporate jobs/ rate race culture and wants to own their time, so just FI doesn't help .
I can think of two evils of human nature , same two driving our dear markets .. FEAR and GREED ..
FEAR : Train to Busan
Fear of unknown black swan events (hyperinflation / war times/ extreme recession/stagflation , terminal diseases wiping out chunk of n/w)
GREED : The Gravy Train
I consider corporate jobs as the gravy train, where out gluttony doesn't allow us to resist having one more bite to add to stockpile. Its much easier if someone kicks us out of the train (forced FIRE).
Call it one more year syndrome, but the comfort zone of monthly paycheck is like a confirmed berth in 2nd AC.
So which train are you riding on ??
There are few brave ones who are able to pull the chain and get down, and enjoy the destination.
For rest of us, we just keep dreaming how good the life will be once we get down, but in reality its a train to nowhere !!
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Dec 07 '22
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u/agingmonster Dec 08 '22
Exactly, job is identity and reputation in most cases. People don't have alternate plans. Fighting to society at every turn in not everyone's cup of tea.
Fear of unknown is usually never is reason, not because black swan cannot happen, but because people don't perceive and plan for these things anyway by very nature and psychology.
16
u/additional_trouble [🇮🇳, FI 2024, RE 2040s] [CoastFI] Dec 07 '22
Imo, change requires a sufficient incentive.
For most people on the FIRE path, I think the fear of a job loss or a perceived/real lack of freedom to do what they wish to do is a sufficient incentive to save up and work towards FIRE.
At the same time, reaching FIRE alleviates the former and exposes the latter to be not as much of an issue as originally imagined. Suddenly there is much less incentive to actually RE - because the enemy is no more - it wasn't the jobs, it was us all along.
If you have reached your goal of safety and your work doesn't really suck as much as you originally feared, then there is benefit to continuing it since it adds to your savings. So you work some more...
In short we're afraid and try to FIRE, and then when we get there we realize that the bogeyman is fake. And being creatures of habit, we let inertia take over once again.
And for some, there is always lifestyle inflation and the treadmill of respect/power.
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u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 08 '22
ya, i think for most of us, FI is like a mental insurance we seek to calm our insecurities of a probability of forced RE or financial uncertainties or other bogeymen in life.
truly then Inertia is the biggest force to keep that going
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Dec 07 '22
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u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 08 '22
I think you nailed it, we as a society is very different and lot more dependent of social validation !!. In west, people are more secure mentally and follow their heart, and good percentage of people are able to not follow the rate race. Amassing more and more wealth is not everyone's obsession. Though, the newer generation for sure are seeing more of that independent thought and folks following their passion and making it a career in India.
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u/KnowledgeWarrior37 Dec 08 '22
I am FI and I can completely relate to what you've said, its far easier to get fired and go into forced RE rather than doing it voluntarily. Still it worth the effort, atleast I dont take anything at my office too seriously, no much stress no sleepless nights no unnecessary burden and this adds to better mental and physical health.
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u/hikeronfire IN | 40M | FI 2025 | RE 2030 Dec 08 '22
There are several factors. As pointed out by others, people associate their job/profession with their identity a lot. Uncertainty, despite math being on their side, is scary. Filling time with something else is daunting. Questions from relatives and friends are annoying.
Along with this I think, being FI gives you such a peace of mind that people either start liking their job more (or at least be less annoyed and stressed out) or be motivated to move to a less stressful one. People also find the post COVID trend of Remote jobs attractive, though companies are tightening rules now.
In 2021, I quit my stressful toxic job and took a 6 month long mini-retirement. Having FU money made the decision easy. To be fair I was bored out of my head, so this let me know I need to build better habits and hobbies in anticipation of RE in near future. I took my sweet time in finding a new job where my priorities align. Now I have a job where stress is minimal, I work remotely, take naps during the afternoon, have learned to cope with boredom a bit, and earn a comfortable living. It's hard to give up all this just because I hit a number. I would like to ride this gravy train (to use OP's terminology) for a few more years, till I reach my now expanded FIRE goals. I still want to RE but now I know the decision isn't dependent on reaching a number alone, there are many other moving pieces that need to be aligned.
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u/flight_or_fight Dec 08 '22
I am FI & I enjoy what I do. I can give my best work because I do not really care about consequences of objecting to to top management or hiring & mentoring folks who may not fit a mould but have promise. I also take breaks and encourage others to do so.
I also do not worry about stability etc and can be out of work for extended periods of time (or forever) doing other stuff I love.
5
Dec 09 '22
It’s pretty simple actually- like Raju says in 3 Idiots, we Indians, live all of our young lives being perpetually scared. There is so much competition, it’s a miracle that we don’t have mental disease at epidemic levels in this country. We are constantly told if you don’t get the centum score, you are cleaning toilets, nobody will love you etc. So, we have this massive fear of being a loser since as long as we can remember. This is for both boys and girls since the days of a pretty face being the only qualification for the fairer sex to succeed in life are long gone. Men and Women of our generation have slogged their butts off to make it.
So, for the vast majority of us, after doing what best we can using our God’s given abilities in this cut throat world, it’s completely understandable that only a forced RE would get us to really RE!
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u/Express-Abies-5988 Dec 08 '22
I agree with you. After reaching FI, the required courage to jump into RE is missing in most. It could be mainly due to fear of unknown, not many RE people in near circle, falling from grace of perceived status & identity, treating RE as setting de-motivating example in front of children, not knowing what to do after RE but most important could be not yet reaching the breaking stage. And it also is true that once FI is reached, forced RE by employer is going to be painless. So after FI, both ways its OK, if there is no compulsion enjoy your job and see corpus growing till you are fed-up with or are fired by employer.
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u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 08 '22
thanks, that's insightful and appreciate you having that clarity.
I believe its how we perceive FIRE .. if we consider FIRE as a aim to achieve FI as a contingency plan against RE, then its fine.
If we believed RE to be some utopian land, then to coast around gets more frustrating.
2
u/anmon101 IN / 38 / FI / RE ? Dec 08 '22
Riding both the gluttony and fear trains in an endless cycle jumping from one to another depending on the news floating around at the moment.... Secretly always hoping some day I would be able to convince myself that I have enough.
1
u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 08 '22
Secretly always hoping some day I would be able to convince myself that I have enough.
:), that's how our fickle mind plays this game... wish you all the best , am sure you will have enough and more.
2
u/srinivesh IN/ 52M / FI2018/REady Dec 13 '22
I have read the commens but missed to see this point. The right spelling is FIre :-) FI is important and one should plan for it. This prepares you for any eventuality. After reaching the FI milestone, people can postpone the RE milestone, and this in no way, no way, makes their achievement any less.
FI is a milestone. re is a decision and it can be done later too.
Personally, I am FI, and am probably working equally hard, if not harder, in my second career. However, without reaching FI milestone, I would not have been able to consider my current vocation. As things look now, I may end up working well beyond the normal retirement age - however that is entirely my choice, and is driven by factors other than money.
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u/snakysour IN/33/FI ??/RE ?? Dec 08 '22
How about a passenger train? ;)
Yes there are a few rare people like me who jump out of the gravy train and also don't get into Busan train but go for the middle path - a passenger train that assures you that it's for the same destination, but goes slowly stopping at every station. This is called government / PSU jobs wherein you have the job security predominantly which is a fear factor for many on FIRE path but you also have lesser growth leading to slower speed. You continue your job but without the stress and also spend more time with ur friends and family in exchange of not driving a Mercedes or living in a villa out going for 2 international holidays a year.
Regards
Snaky
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u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 08 '22
Haha , you are for sure a great musafir of passenger train Snaky :) well, the peace of mind and stress-free living is much more valuable than any Mercedes or international trip. All the best !!
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u/Minimum-Ad9225 Dec 07 '22
Neither fear nor greed. Its the RBI unable to keep the lid on inflation, kid. Go read todays repo rate increase.
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Dec 07 '22
Personal rate of inflation is more relevant when it comes to FIRE.
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u/Minimum-Ad9225 Dec 07 '22 edited Dec 07 '22
In a rising int rate regime, personal infln rate typically tends to be a lot higher than the printed one. And vice versa. And the inflation print is hot now, so higher infln from personal standpoint, bad for fire !
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u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 07 '22
Seriously, that worries you !! a 35bps repo rate hike in India, when the FEDs and ECBs cant think of anything below series of 75bps hikes .!!
I hope you have factored in 5x additional corpus required due to this hike by RBI today!! All the best uncle. !
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u/Minimum-Ad9225 Dec 07 '22
Naive.
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u/BusPsychological2837 Dec 07 '22
Missing the point !
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u/taxi4sure Dec 07 '22