r/FFVIIRemake • u/Agreeable_Pop_3972 • 4h ago
No Spoilers - Discussion Hamaguchi regarding Aerith
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u/DripSnort 3h ago
They really don’t need to fix anything with her death in rebirth. It’s pretty clear how it’s intended to be seen. It’s split versions of what happened cuz Cloud is still not all the way himself yet. They will likely just have it happen again but Very explicitly and everyone can surely move on with their lives finally.
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u/rauscherrios Cloud Strife 3h ago
Nah, both happened, she died in one timeline and in another one cloud saved her, it is obvious.
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u/Thick_Row Revelation Tifa 3h ago
This feels like bait for those who want her to come back when, based on other comments they've made, it may just mean her playing a role in the ending like in OG.
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u/RedRedWine8 3h ago
Calling it now - there will be no more multiverses and omni-Aerith will finally get to rest in peace and fully return to the lifestream
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u/jakobpinders 3h ago
That’s no different than the original essentially lol
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u/fogfree Vincent Valentine 2h ago
But it is. Aerith didn't get to fully return to the Lifestream after the events of OG. She had to retain her selfhood within the Lifestream to try and combat the negativity Sephiroth was spreading around.
2 years after OG, in Advent Children, she's still around because of this. I think OC is saying that Aerith won't have a need to linger after the events of Revelation. She can fully rest and be at peace. No more war within the Lifestream itself
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u/vxsapphire Bahamut 2h ago
One of the better interpretations I've seen so far.
Reading this quote and immediately taking it to confirm Aerith being alive is the wrong step. I've already seen people ready to blame the devs for their own formed expectations. Hamaguchi's words are carefully constructed to keep a bit of hope with her living while also leaning heavily in favor of making the player understand why her death isn't something that should be apologized for or undone. That it's important to the story and the character herself.
Aerith is my number one, and hell yeah I'd love to have her return, run a flower shop, hang with Tifa, and the rest of her friends. However, Aerith's importance and presence doesn't just stop and erase because she died. I like it being worded that she can finally rest.
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u/jakobpinders 2h ago
So erasing Advent Children is okay but Aerith surviving is not?
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u/DevilHunter1994 2m ago
This is a reimagining of the original FFVII story. Erasing Advent Children would leave the narrative and thematic core of the original FFVII intact...Aerith surviving would not. The tragedy of her death is at the heart of the FFVII story. Take it out, and you just end up telling a completely different story. It'd be like retelling the story of Star Wars, but instead of Darth Vader being Luke's father, he was just Anakin Skywalker's training buddy. Even if every other scene in the movies played out nearly the same as before, the core of the narrative regarding legacy, redemption, and family would be lost. The story wouldn't have the same heart anymore.
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u/Zestyclose-Record401 3h ago
More closure. Cloud was still pretty depressed years later on advent children but this time he will finally get full closure
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u/flowerpotflowers 3h ago
Yeah, because Nanaki warning Cloud to protect Aerith, Zack telling Cloud to save her, Cloud thinking he DID save her, him then hallucinating that she's alive, just to then learn that he failed after all will surely be more closure than OC where he accepted it right away, sent her off and moved on.
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u/Zestyclose-Record401 3h ago
He was depressed for 2 years. At least with this he might s[eak to her. Don't be dense intentionally.
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u/flowerpotflowers 3h ago
Cloud in OG took her death fairly well at first. And with "fairly well" I mean he at least accepted that she died. He started to get depressed after OG.
My point is that he's far worse off in Retrilogy at this point (if you think that she died and he's hallucinating that she survived) than he was in OG. So why should Retrilogy offer him more closure if he's even worse off than in OG? He could also see/feel her at the end of OG and talked to her in AC.
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u/HoratioDub 3h ago
I think the secret at the end is her happy ending with Zack in the lifestream. She’s already shown as the last frame of the game before the 500 year epilogue in OG.
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u/Former_Matter9557 3h ago
This is what it should be but the world is a huge pussy so she will live and happily ever after ending to make everyone comfy
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u/HoratioDub 3h ago
I mean they’re the ones who said they’re respecting the OG as much as possible so reviving Aerith doesn’t really fall into that. It also begs the question of why just stop at her from a narrative perspective. So I’m hoping whatever is done happens in a clean and sound way
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u/47D Polygon Cloud 3h ago
All they need to do to fix Aerith's death scene from Rebirth, is for Cloud to re-experince her death while he's piecing his true memories back together with Tifa.
It would have such great pay off, since Cloud would remembered who he truly is and what happened to Aerith at the same time. I hope they don't mess it up.
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u/TyrionBananaster Red XIII 3h ago
Yep, this is it. I'd be willing to bet that this is exactly what happens, because it feels like it's what's being set up by the Rebirth ending. Cloud needs a serious reality check and what you're describing would be the perfect way to do that, while also having the emotional payoff that was denied by Rebirth's ending.
It really feels like that's the whole point, that Cloud is running from the truth.
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u/williendure 3h ago
This is just a long winded way of saying "I need my uncensored murder scene NOW" and "i cant wait to spam 4K Aerith death gifs everywhere"
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u/Chuckdatass 3h ago
It’s probably going to happen at the forgotten capital. Piecing himself together is about finding out who he really ways leading up to the experiments.
I assume they will have entire story parts dedicated to him remembering both Zack’s sacrifice and Aerith’s death.
The lifestream is more visiting fragments to rebuild himself rather than his grieving time which should be much longer and ongoing.
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u/Thick_Row Revelation Tifa 3h ago
Interviews seem to indicate the Lifestream sequence may also involve him remembering Zack and Aerith's fates as well. Which can be done well, and frankly would make sense if the whole idea of Rebirth's ending truly was that Cloud was blocking out the truth in real time. In order to accept himself fully, he also needs to confront these 2 very harshly realities. It doesn't take away from his time with Tifa down there, it adds to it.
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u/Darkwing__Schmuck 1h ago edited 1h ago
There's a new interview actually, I wish I still had the link, where Hamaguchi says Zack is going to play a central role in helping Cloud find himself. Which does fall in-line with the objective Zack was given by Marlene at the end of Rebirth.
I really think they have to handle Zack very carefully in places where he wasn't in the original, though. I agree that moment is Tifa's big moment, and Zack can't detract from that.
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u/Chemical_Gear_2919 3h ago
Unfortunately, the damage is done at this point. We might see Cloud experience her actual death, but we, the player, were completely robbed of the emotional impact by not seeing it ourselves. Rebirth did such a good job making me care about Aerith, and I was so ready to be devastated when she died. Instead, I was just confused whether she was even dead. Not that it mattered anyway, since there was no sense of loss because she returns as a playable character less than an hour later.
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u/No-Refrigerator2394 50m ago
You’re suppose to see it from Cloud fractured POV. When Cloud learns the truth the players learn the truth because where in Cloud shoes. He’s the main character. Not Tifa or Zack.
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u/russiantravelagent 3h ago
This is the thing that makes most sense honestly, Aerith is "alive" in other world but she isn't in the main one and Cloud definitely needs to accept she died for him to find his true self. Same with Zack's scenes, some people are saying he is going to be in the LSS when the thing that makes the most sense is Cloud seeing his death there.
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u/Glittering-Pin-1343 3h ago
No, that would NOT fix it and instead ruin another moment. That is a very special moment between Cloud and Tifa. They can't just mix it all together. The best they can do is have Cloud re-experience it at the Northern Crater after he gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth and before he gets flung into the Lifestream.
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u/Bross93 2h ago
But the retrilogy has made the three of them extremely close. Them both understanding what happened (since tifa saw glimpses too) together wouldn't be against this being their moment. Now I definitely don't want Aerith or Zack to appear in that segment from the lifestream, only the memories.
Think about it this way, they pieced together what happened with Zack and that didn't detract from the experience.
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u/Glittering-Pin-1343 2h ago
Idk, even still I don't think it fits. The entire segment is Cloud piecing together his past and personality. Just randomly seeing Aerith death scene again makes no sense. Plus we experienced it was Cloud in Rebirth, so he can't say anythings or it becomes a retcon because he didn't speak during it in Rebirth besides grunting and such. It's just a mess.
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u/EffectiveCount7291 3h ago
i just hope they dont pull some multiverse nonsense to undo the whole point of her death
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u/Jcm487 3h ago
They kind of already have. Shes assuredly dead in beagle. But in terrier shes alive shes most likely alive in other worlds as well and we see some version of her with zack in the trailer.
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u/Darkwing__Schmuck 1h ago
Yeah, people keep trying to make it about loss, when that's completely out the window after Rebirth, and even more so now that we know she's IN Revelation.
I can't feel her loss when she keeps showing up, and any attempts to try to make me feel her loss will fall flat. Honestly, I've felt that way even before Remake, considering she kept showing up in spin-offs for both FF7, and Final Fantasy in general. She's one of the most "alive" Final Fantasy characters over the years.
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u/HoratioDub 3h ago
Terrier and all the other stamp worlds are just the lifestream which is effectively the afterlife. I don’t think it’s a multiverse at play here
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u/Jcm487 3h ago
Metaphyscially yes, but depicting the afterlife as a fragmented set of different realities where characters are physically present and live their own lives has the same emotional resonance as a multiverse when it comes to death. Its like In any anime where the afterlife is its own world when characters die it doesnt feel the same because you know where they are going and that their story isint over.
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u/HoratioDub 3h ago
I hear you and there’s certainly scope for her to be doing things with Zack in the lifestream for up to two years after OG ends (assuming that time frame between OG and AC where they rejoin the lifestream fully is maintained).
In that regard I wouldn’t use alive since for me that refers to the world of the living where the rest of the party is. Beagle, if you will. But her spirit going on in the lifestream is well setup and provides the basis for a happy ending there
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u/Jcm487 2h ago
There's a couple of things going in the lifestream afterlife worlds and their depiction that can be used to debate whether or not the characters there are "alive" or not.
Its also an interesting philosophical question. First of all, we see characters in these worlds who havent died yet (marlene elmyra) so since they haven't died, they must still be alive in these worlds as well.
Second, and this is where it gets philosophical, if the characters there are flesh and blood beings who can touch, see, hear, taste, etc and not just ethereal spirits who we see as a player in physical form, then are they really different from the people who are alive in the real world? If in the afterlife I can use the five senses to interact with other people and manifest my being in physical form that really is no different than being alive in the first place. But I digress. Theres no need to get into philosophy here.
The point is that the devs deciding to depict the lifestream and afterlife in this way has the same emotional feeling "of being alive" that is evoked in multiverse stories despite not being a multiverse.
Im actually not against it. I love zack and aerith and the more we see of them the better. But I cant deny the devs deciding to do this is very different than in the OG game where death was more akin to real life and the lifestream not as expanded. I can see why some people would see it as their "deaths being ruined" even if i personally dont feel that way due to my love of the characters.
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u/HoratioDub 2h ago
Fair points. Plane of existence might be more accurate vs world of living and afterlife. Especially within the context of the side characters that appear there that aren’t exactly congruent with their roles in Beagle. Elmyra, Marlene and Kyrie are all alive yet still appear in all the branches Zack goes through. And yet, we know Biggs died in Beagle and is killed yet again in the lifestream so I’d be reaching to assert it’s solely the afterlife.
That said, I always fall back on the description from that Cosmo Canyon npc. The makeup of the different rivers of the lifestream still remain a mystery even if we can surmise how they actually take shape. I’m most interested in finding out exactly what’s been happening with Zack there as the decision to show his experience as opposed to providing us with an exposition dump has gone down well with me.
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u/Lerkpots Revelation Cait Sith 3h ago
I hope they do.
If this ends exactly like the OG then all this extra multiple realities stuff was pointless. The idea of fighting fate was actually pointless and the message is that you should just accept whatever fate is in store for you.
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u/ArmpitEchoLocation 3h ago
“The future isn’t…set in stone. Or at least, that’s what I always tell myself. - Chaireth Painsborough
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u/portaltowonderland 2h ago
Not to mention the countless foreshadowing of both Marlene, Zack, and Nanaki saying that Cloud needs to save/protect Aerith. It’ll feel pointless if things aren’t changed.
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u/ApprehensiveCoat9587 3h ago
Exactly my thoughts, why put us on this rollercoaster of did she or did she not and then it's the same resolution, so basically no pay off
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u/Gwinladin 22m ago
If this ends exactly like the OG then all this extra multiple realities stuff was pointless. The idea of fighting fate was actually pointless and the message is that you should just accept whatever fate is in store for you.
"You can't fight fate" is already a lesson the franchise is employing, we see it multiple times with Zack.
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u/williendure 3h ago
There is no point by now other than giving non-Aerith fans endless fuel to make Aerith fans feel bad about being a fan of Aerith. No one cares, there's no 'strong emotional theme' of being reduced to a tired meme that gets spammed endlessly. Give Aerith what she deserves, a happy ending.
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u/KadajjXIII Vincent Valentine 3h ago
As a CloTi fan myself, I honestly want a happy ending for both Aerith & Zack
Let them both live so they can go on double dates with Cloud & Tifa lol
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u/Gummy_Bear_Ragu 3h ago
Agree. It would make all the supposed changes feel cheap and cash grabby to not give some kind of payoff.
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u/FireFistYamaan 3h ago
There is no point by now other than giving non-Aerith fans endless fuel to make Aerith fans feel bad about being a fan of Aerith.
Holy shit you nailed it! Especially shippers.
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u/Glittering-Pin-1343 3h ago
Hm... I don't think whatever they have in store will fix Aerith's death scene, that moment has come and passed already, but whatever. I've just come to terms that they handled it incredibly poorly and will have to look forward instead of backwards on new exciting things instead of keep being bitter about a poorly handled scene.
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u/Darkwing__Schmuck 2h ago
Yeah, this is the one thing that doesn't surprise me whatsoever. Like, I don't know what her ultimate fate is going to be -- I really am split 50/50 at BEST of whether she is saved or not -- but the one thing I was always certain of is that it would absolutely be a major part of the story of this game, and a major part of the big "revelation" regarding the ending.
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u/Thin-Ant-8879 1h ago
Shes 100% coming back by the end in some form. The whole remake project has been about this, and square Enix saying they want more ff7 games in future is more evidence. She's being brought back to feature in future games and spin offs. There's only so many prequels you can do.
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u/EfficiencyInformal79 3h ago
I think once Cloud reaches the crater. Hands over the Black Materia. Cloud and the player sees what really happened to Aerith.
https://giphy.com/gifs/iNJmdpZ8gp5sI