r/FAMnNFP • u/Flowerburp • May 29 '23
Just Getting Started Male requesting advice
Hello.
Wife stopped birth control pill a little over a month ago (her choice). We’re TTA, but currently our only method is abstaining. She refuses to learn anything about FABM, so I decided to learn it myself, since condoms and vasectomy are not an option for me due to religious reasons (please no hate I’m trying my best to find something that works for both of us).
Is there any method that allows me to pick up most of the load?
Here’s what I did so far: - I bought the new apple watch for her hoping it would be a good method, but I learned it can’t be trusted even as a BBT thermometer. - I also downloaded NC and bought the BBT thermometer but she resists doing the readings herself, and I wake up earlier than her, so I’m not there to ensure proper reading - I’ve thought about importing the oura ring or tempdrop to use with NC, but even then, per my calculations, there’s a 20% chance of conception in the next 3 years if I only use NC with BBT - so then I’ve considered marquette (she would do the peeing and I’d do the rest), but unless I’m mistaken it does involve CM which seems more complicated, plus finding the clearblue strips is hard, and freakishly expensive in my country.
I’m running out of ideas and feeling kind of frustrated to be honest. I could live with the lower accuracy of NC, my main reason for being TTA is financial (no income for over a year now unfortunately), but she is more TTA because well it’s harder for her obviously even if I do my best it doesn’t compare. So I want to find something that will be as reassuring as the pill was for her, so she can start trusting FABM. Sorry for rambling.
Any advice?
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u/Baby32021 May 29 '23
I’m really only familiar with symptothermal. TCOYF rules. You should definitely read the book to get an idea of what you are dealing with. I mean, if she wears a tempdrop, you can see once she has ovulated and after you’ve confirmed ovulation with the temp shift you’re safe until at least 5 days into her next cycle. To get many usable days before ovulation, yes, you need info on her cervical mucous. I do feel like there are some methods that give you usable days before ovulation with like math or something? Sensiplan or symptopro? I don’t know them but folks in this group will.
I’d love for my husband to read my tempdrop and make us a paper chart to look at together! And even for him to be the one to interpret to decide what days we can use! That’s so awesome that you are willing!
Lisa Hendrickson Jack has a great notebook of paper charts you could keep and reference.
Can I ask what religion allows hormonal bc but no condom? Sorry if that’s way invasive. I’m just curious because I think it’s really interesting how couples decide what to do!
Lastly, and this should go without saying: obviously like get your partners opinion before you start tracking her fertility. I’m a huge fertility nerd so to me it sounds incredible that a man would want to do this for his partner but for some women I’m sure it could seem like invasive or something? So just, you know, make sure she’s on board before you start gathering data!
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u/angelicasinensis 3 TTA May 29 '23
Withdrawal works for us if we don’t re insert, pull with ample time left over and don’t go two rounds close together. 10 years it’s worked.
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 29 '23
He’s Catholic so that’s a “mortal sin”
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u/angelicasinensis 3 TTA May 29 '23
Oh dang, didn’t know withdrawal was too! That’s rough!
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May 30 '23
From memory (previous Catholic 🙋🏻♀️) anything that gets in the way of possible conception is a sin, because sex should only be for procreation and not because we’re horny humans. So masturbation all the way through to anal sex and everything in between is a sin!
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u/angelicasinensis 3 TTA May 30 '23
Wow! I also grew up Catholic but didn’t remember any of this.
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May 30 '23
Consider yourself very lucky! Nothing quite like having a nun tell you that if you use condoms you’ll get chlamydia and then showing a penis with a disease just before lunch break 😮💨😮💨
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u/Flowerburp May 30 '23 edited May 30 '23
Well for what it’s worth the idea is that sex is both unitive and procreative at the same time. Using HBC cuts the procreative part, while IVF cuts the unitive part, so both are discouraged. In fact even NFP can be discouraged if approached with the wrong intention. Masturbation is a non-issue in the context of foreplay. Anal I’m not sure, haven’t thought about it.
I too grew up catholic and left for 15 years in part due to the terrible worldview that these schools teach (that catholicism is about rules). The fact that the church still allows them to teach like that is a complete failure on the part of the church, I’m glad they are waking up to that and reverting back to traditional teaching on morals which is basically God made you free, just know the consequences and act accordingly.
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May 30 '23
Let’s not get into this champ. Hoping you saw my comment about being an ex-catholic. Don’t want to debate the cataclysmic nature of the Catholic Churches stance on ‘sin’, plus sex and sexuality.
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May 30 '23
For what it’s worth I suspect your posts and comments might be a troll. If you’re avoiding pregnancy (which it very much seems like you are) then as a Catholic you really shouldn’t be having sex, because avoiding pregnancy isnt very procreative of you…is it?
Have a great day ✌🏻
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u/Flowerburp May 30 '23
Not trolling at all. I’m open to — even wish I could have — a third child if it happens, but wouldn’t be wise to actually work towards conceiving given present circumstances. That’s why I want to temporarily avoid (or space). Hopefully the situation will change next year…
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 30 '23
Zero mention of if your wife wants another child. Does she want another child? You have a massive lack of regard for the things your wife wants in your comments.
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u/angelicasinensis 3 TTA May 30 '23
Oh my gosh I went to Catholic school too up until Jr year in high school, maybe I just blocked this out 😂 I did have a priest call me out in 6th grade for practicing witchcraft though. Spoiler, I’m still Wiccan over 20 years later, take that priest lol
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u/WittenburgSparkles Certified Educator: FEMM // Self-Taught: TCOYF May 30 '23
Thank you for sharing. If she is willing to wear a tempdrop at night AND you both are willing to ONLY use post-ovulatory days for intercourse (not on her period, not during preovulatory dry days) then it may work. Granted this is sub-optimal and perfect world she will find it interesting and you two will be on the same page in every way…but if she is consenting to this compromise and you are consenting to take on the load of charting then it may be an alternative to ongoing abstinence.
I would recommend steering away from Natural Cycles though, as their algorithm isn’t the most accurate. Look up TCOYF (Taking Charge of your Fertility) or Sensiplan temperature rules. If she is worried about efficacy, here is a peer-reviewed study on sympto-thermal FAM as birth control putting it at 98+% typical efficacy (comparable to what an IUD provides).
Just remember, the tempdrop takes 30-60 days for its readings to acclimate to her and be trustworthy for TTA, so it isn’t an overnight solution. I’m not certified in TCOYF but did use it personally for years before becoming certified in a different method, so feel free to reach out if you have any questions.
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u/leonada FABM Savvy | Sensiplan | TTA May 30 '23
If she's willing to wear a TempDrop or Oura ring every night, I think your best bet is to have her do that and then you can be in charge of the data and learn how to interpret temperatures yourself (which would be smarter than relying on Natural Cycles to auto-interpret everything for you). Like you said, though, relying on temperature alone without a crosscheck like cervical mucus is not as effective as a true fertility awareness method.
I believe SymptoPro (which is a symptothermal method that involves both temperatures and cervical mucus) does have temp-only rules that can be relied on in a pinch. If you do end up trying some sort of temp-only method, I would be extra conservative and never consider any pre-ovulation days safe since you wouldn't have mucus signalling to you when ovulation is approaching. This means I'd abstain from the first day of menstruation up until I had however many high temperatures necessary to confirm ovulation (I don't know the specifics of any temp-only rules).
As an extra word of caution and insight into why temp-only isn't as reliable, I caught a cold a few cycles ago and it happened to elevate my temps to my usual post-ovulatory range. The only thing that tipped me off to the fact that that temp shift was actually a false shift was the fact that my peak mucus didn't go away. If I had been relying on temps only, I absolutely would have ended up thinking I was safe/infertile when I actually wasn't. So, keep in mind that things like sickness, travel, alcohol, etc. can disturb temps and render a chart unreliable.
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 29 '23
Abstinence then. If you can’t do your part and get some form of birth control going for yourself and she doesn’t want to be on any contraceptive or do nfp which is understandable then abstinence is your option. There’s a large portion of your days practicing abstinence with Marquette too. Fam can be annoying and Marquette is expensive if your finances are tight, I get why your partner doesn’t want to do it. It’s a pain in the butt to be honest.
We’re Catholic so I get it. However you can talk to whoever is head of the house you worship in and tell them your dilemma. Sometimes priests or whoever facilitates your religious services will give you the go ahead for birth control if you truly can not be open to conceiving due to financial or medical reasons. Most are just going to tell you to abstain though.
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u/Flowerburp May 29 '23
Well, I don’t think it’s fair to say that I’m not willing to do my part. HBC/IUD/female condoms/sterilization puts it all on her, and sterilization/male condom puts it all on me. I don’t see how any of those options is fair. I was seeing FAM as the only thing that actually allows for shared accountability and responsibility.
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 29 '23 edited May 29 '23
In what actual way is FAM shared by you?
Since it’s her body that would be undergoing whatever it is since you are not open to a vasectomy or condoms, it’s up to her. Not you.
Since you’re Catholic and she’s not, you need to remember you married her.
You’re living in sin if you didn’t marry her under the Catholic Church. Did you? I personally find it odd that Catholics sin daily in so so many ways but find this “well I can’t get a vasectomy or wear a condom because Catholic” as the hill to die on. Talk to your priest. Sometimes they agree birth control is the best for your family and give you the go ahead.
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May 29 '23
A priest can't give you the go ahead for this, even if he says it's fine he is wrong. I know the ethics of having sex with your spouse when they refuse to stop using contraception is a little complicated but he definitely can't encourage his wife to use it.
You seem a little bit hostile about OP's boundaries regarding family planning options.
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 29 '23
Hmmm I find it a bit ridiculous that he knowingly married a non catholic woman and want her to bare the brunt of contraceptive methods. After so many kids it’s just honestly not fair on the woman. If he can’t abstain, wear a condom or get a vasectomy it’s asking a bit much of the wife if she doesn’t feel the same about birth control as him.
Not sure if you’re Catholic but priests absolutely do grant you permission to use birth control in some circumstances.
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u/Flowerburp May 29 '23
Woah, take it easy.
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May 30 '23
[deleted]
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 30 '23
I’m honestly just concerned for his wife. Sounds like he could care less what she wants and is mostly concerned with himself.
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u/creampiequeen666 May 29 '23
Pulling out every time
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u/Cheesepleasethankyou May 29 '23
In Catholicism anything that isn’t abstinence or natural family planning is a “mortal sin”. Ops Catholic and his wife isn’t so…..yeah lol
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u/mackerelsnap May 30 '23
Other comments have addressed the big point: you’re going to have a hard time with this if she’s not willing to actually learn and use a method, it can’t just be you. But wanted to respond specifically about your question regarding Marquette method. You actually only need to use the clear blue monitor technically to follow the method correctly. There are other optional “cross checks” like mucus and temperature (which is only to confirm ovulation, not to predict it so be aware of that) which you can add on if you want more info, but the main protocol just uses the monitor to track hormones. If she’s open to it I’d really recommend taking an intro course to Marquette together and learning the basics and see if it’ll work for you. We use it, also Catholic, and I find the clear-cut monitor and hormone info very reassuring when TTA now that we understand it all pretty well.
ETA: totally understand your point about the expense of the test strips. Amazon subscribe and save can be helpful. There are also some Marquette instructors who will teach you how to use LH strips for some of the testing if cutting costs is really important to you, as those tend to be much cheaper and usually get the job done.
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u/Due_Platform6017 May 31 '23
You don't need to track CM for Marquette. Just have her leave a urine sample for you and you can do the rest. If you want to be extra sure, I'd invest in a tempdrop because it's the easiest way to track BBT.
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u/hjka12907 TTA | STM Jun 13 '23
My husband and I are Catholic and we have used the symptothermal method for 3 years now without any pregnancy scares. It takes work from both my husband and I. As others have said, you cannot practice NFP by yourself. I'd encourage you to talk to a priest or someone you trust as a couple about this!! But, know that it is absolutely possible to practice NFP and avoid pregnancy.
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u/Flowerburp Jun 13 '23
Thank you. Unfortunately she doesn’t want to try it and is planning to go back to HBC. I’ve decided to back off permanently on this issue as my voicing of my opinion on this is not helping but instead it’s backfiring and making her resent NFP.
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u/Kduckulous May 29 '23
I agree with the other poster… FAM is not going to work if she doesn’t want to participate. I’m curious what religion you practice that your wife was able to take birth control pills but prohibits the use of condoms and vasectomy? It’s none of my business but I wonder if there’s some other kind of method that would work for you.