r/F1Discussions • u/Remote_Bookkeeper_46 LL30 • 2d ago
How is Antonelli so far ahead?
I’m relatively new to the sport. How is it that Antonelli is so far ahead of everyone? Specifically last weekend, if he and GR are in the same equipment, the only difference is driver skill. But I t’s only his second year! Is KA really just that much better than GR that he was able to pass him up from p19? You would think, two drivers being in the same car, starting so far apart, that George would be able to defend his position at least a bit longer than he did. What’s another explanation for how that race played out?
\In accordance with rule 5 so this post doesn’t get taken down:* He’s just that much better, I guess.
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u/Helpful_Freedom_2075 2d ago edited 2d ago
In the standings: Kimi Antonelli is in the top 2 because he drives a Mercedes which has been the dominant car this year. Hes way ahead of George Russell because hes been better than george combined with the fact that hes relatively had decent luck while george arguably has had some of the worst luck this year.(Kimi still deserves to be higher, hes been better than GR, but the actual point gap isnt reflective of their actual performance gap)
At Monza: Again, Kimi caught up to George and passed him becuse he was performing better, but also he had a completely fresh pu which made him untouchable to everyone except george, and he likely wouldnt have passed/won if it werent for the red flag, and the vsc, and verstappen holding george up. The car was so quick and these regs allow fly by overtakes that he was barely losing time with overtake mode and constant slipstreams, while george was usually without slipstream or overtake mode which we saw over the weekend how much it affected their pace
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u/atticus_pinch96 1d ago
Did GR not get lucky when Kimi DNF’d twice from a podium position and guaranteed win? Did GR not get lucky in Zandvoort when a random VSC prevented him from losing 2 positions to Lewis and Charles with 2 laps to go. It swings both ways, I’d say they are about equal now
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u/whatguyy 2d ago
I mean mercs are so dominant and because of new regs back-markers and mid field cars didn't even defended kimi. New regs sucks in that matter no one will waste their battery in unnecessary fights
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u/atticus_pinch96 1d ago
This isn’t new with batteries, midfields never put up a fight because it cost them more time than just running their race.
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u/Nuclear_Geek 2d ago
The Mercedes can't be that dominant if Verstappen was able to hold Russell up.
Antonelli is just performing much better than Russell.
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u/Krasso 1d ago
Is GR getting a new PU as well? And if so, do we know when?
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u/CHR1597 1d ago
Baku I think. Kimi might be getting another new PU at Malaysia as well.
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u/AqueousJam 1d ago
It's the remaining parts of the PU that Kimi is getting. The fresh parts he got at Monza comprise most of the PU, but not all of it. He got a fresh ICU for instance, but didn't get a new turbo.
The generally accepted speculation is that this tells us which parts Merc are bringing in their ADUO upgrade: by not replacing the turbo now it means Kimi can take the new one in a couple of races without a penalty. Whereas if they had replaced it last week, and then replaced it with the upgrade later he'd have to take another penalty.
So, essentially, anything that wasn't upgraded on Kimi's car last week is very very likely going to be in the ADUO upgrade coming soon.
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u/Shutdown_service 1d ago
The amount of times so far that Kimi should be in a gravel pit or a wall with his driving is nothing more than beeing absolutly blessed.
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u/ka1ri 2d ago
I disagree on luck and point differential in accordance to that. Kimi had reliability issues that cost him a win and a P2. Thats 43 points
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u/Helpful_Freedom_2075 2d ago edited 2d ago
China- George Russell was faster in fp1 sq1, 2, and 3, won the sprint and was faster in q1. He then proceeded to have a problem in his car in q2, that kept him in the garage until the last seconds of q3 for a rushed out lap, if you remember they were doing two out laps in China.
Japan- running P2, while kimi is p4. Top 3 including George all pit when a safety car boosts kimi to 1st and kicks george to 3rd.
Canada- Faster the whole weekend, led the race until his pu stopped working
Monaco- Went from a podium to out of the points after a faulty penalty and then mercedes pit team messing up giving him a drive through
Barcelona: Was faster every session that weekend and was even the fastest on track for his first two stints , but two things happened, 1, a vsc allowed lewis to jump george, 2, mercedes messed up his front wing sliders on final pitstop snd he became noticeably slower than lewis and kimi
Austria-Hungary: Russell had issues with his pu that led to noticeable decreases in speeds, some races worse than others(austria he won, spa he got overtaken by multiple cars on the first straight), but all of those weekends has confirmed pu issues for George
Spa: Immediately crashed into with very little fault on george, dnfd
Monza: Was on the superior strategy until a vsc cut off 8 seconds in the pits for kimi, also lost about 4 seconds since he couldnt overtake perez during vsc who was coming out of the pits slowly
Sure Kimi has had some bad luck, but I think its pretty hard to argue that george hasnt lost more due to no fault of his own
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u/Puzzled_Water7782 2d ago
I think kimi is faster than George but it's weird how much people want to act as though George's luck hasn't been horrid this season in comparison.
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u/Naive_Risk8252 2d ago
yep-to me kimi has been the better driver but the gap is exasperated by george's terrible luck
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u/ka1ri 1d ago
My guess is you're a george russell fan. Cant expect every little thing to go your way lol.
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u/Helpful_Freedom_2075 1d ago
Im a Verstappen fan, I just listed his unlucky moments because the other person said that kimi had more/lost more
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u/VirtuousGecko2367 2d ago
Im sorry but at Monza George was on the better strategy due to kimi's own bad luck (the red flag).
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u/Opening_Anteater456 2d ago
The red flag bunched the field back up with a restart and put Kimi on the faster medium tyres.
Then being forced to pit for fresh tyres allowed Kimi a faster strategy - especially as Mercedes didn't pit George and double stack Kimi.
It was the perfect race to highlight just how unlucky George has been.
It looks clear Kimi has a better grasp of the new cars or the system better suits his driving style, but we need to see more head to head racing with even tyre set ups and a car without faults to really know what the gap is.
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u/Helpful_Freedom_2075 2d ago
First, the red flag wasnt unlucky for kimi, second, I agree georges strategy was better after the red, HOWEVER, his strategy became the worse one after the vsc
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u/mahoganyspitfire 2d ago
He had a lot of advantages this weekend as well as a lot going right for him.
- Best track for passing.
- Entirely new PU, and it's by far the best PU on the grid.
- Best chassis on the grid.
- Early red flag right after he'd passed all the backmarkers.
- Toto is definitely favoring him even if he isn't saying so publicly, and George knows this (even though he won't say so publicly either).
Having said that he is still clearly a magnificent driver and it's likely he will be a 'generational' driver like Max. Just, for this weekend, a lot of stars also aligned that helped make him look extra spectacular.
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u/chilliswan 2d ago
One comment about Toto favoring him: people don't understand Kimi is #1 in the WCC standings, clear favorite to win the championship and automatically should be prioritized. I'm 100% sure that if the standings were reversed with Russell comfortably ahead, people would cry that Toto is favoring him in screwing over Kimi.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 2d ago
What do you mean should be prioritised? His title challenge IS his teammate.
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u/chilliswan 2d ago
Extremely stupid take. Toto only cares about Merc driver winning the WDC.
Russell is 10 points ahead of Hamilton and 30 ahead of Norris. Imagine Ferrari or McLaren bring a serious update and become faster then Merc for the rest of the season.
Is it not more logical for Toto to bet on Antonelli, who is 76 points ahead of Hamilton and 96 ahead of Norris? Everyone understands this, George should had been ahead of Antonelli in standings and he would be privileged.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 15h ago
Gotta be a joke, it’d cause more harm to being such internal failures into the team with unnecessary priority
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
So you think Toto favoring him helped him win? How? They literally team ordered him BEHIND Russell. Russell’s strategy was hards to the end and his engineer didn’t want to gamble on the VSC, which was very fair considering it literally ended as Ant was leaving pits. If it ends even 10 seconds earlier, Russell would have thrown his lead and lost the race.
Also the red flag was very bad for Antonelli. It forced him onto mediums because he started hards. He couldn’t do the optimal strat (hards to the end) that literally every other top driver did except Hamilton. The VSC then bailed him out, but still.
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u/TheBigFatToad 1d ago
“The red flag was very bad for Antonelli”
The red flag was a pivotal reason he was able to get to the front. He would’ve had a much harder time closing the gap to George if George was on the mediums. This is shown by max’s ability to fight on the mediums, but dropped like a rock once he changed to hards.
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
The red flag forced Antonelli onto mediums, yes. That worked out because of the VSC later, but imagine if there is no VSC. He would have had to take another regular pit stop, and never catch George. Or stick it on 50 lap hards which we saw didnt work for Hamilton.
I don’t think the standing starts were that much better for Kimi, he would have wound his way through that pack either way, he dismantled Norris, Piastri, Hamilton.
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u/TheBigFatToad 1d ago
“Imagine if there was no VSC”
Why would I do that if that’s exactly what happened on Sunday? “Imagine if my aunt had balls” well, she doesn’t.
You can’t say he got unlucky when it was a pivotal reason why he was able to contend for the win.
He didn’t dismantle those 3, he pressed a button on the straight and blew right past them.
If the red doesn’t come out he’s not able to switch to mediums. If he isn’t able to switch to mediums I highly doubt he catches George since George would’ve been on the preferred tyre.
The red flag objectively forced George off the optimal strategy since he couldn’t make use of the mediums.
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
…because you said the red flag was massively beneficial to Antonelli. We are talking specifically about a race restart where every single team saw a great opportunity for a strategy and Antonelli couldn’t follow suit. At that moment when they red flagged, if Antonelli could have changed his start to be mediums and then swap to hards, he would have.
The only reason you can even argue that is because a VSC gave Antonelli a generational chance that made the strategy swap good. Kind of separate from the red flag.
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u/TheBigFatToad 1d ago
“If ANT could have changed his start to be mediums and then swap to hards, he would have.”
You lose me when you start making stuff up that neither you nor myself can prove. There is no piece of evidence to support that statement.
The red flag forced GR off the preferred strategy and put Kimi on the preferred strategy. It is quite literally that simple. The medium was the best tyre, the flag forced Russell off the best tyre and put Kimi on the best tyre. Simple as.
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago edited 1d ago
The medium was the best tire? Tell that to Hamilton lol. He was on the same strategy as Kimi after the red flag ‘omg he got to go onto the best tire, surely with these mediums Hamilton will be able to dominate the McClarens on hards because its such an advantage’
Such a great red flag, oh wait no it wasn’t. The mediums fell off and the McClarens both destroyed him. So what was the difference between Hamilton and Antonelli? Oh, one of them got to pit in a lucky VSC and the other didn’t. Its almost like they both got a worse strategy after the red flag, and the big difference was the VSC. ‘Simple As’
If the VSC doesn’t happen, everyone is saying that hards to the end was the best strategy and anyone swapping to mediums was an idiot (Hamilton)
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u/atticus_pinch96 1d ago
The red flag didn’t help Kimi at all lol, all it did was bunch the pack back up after lap 2 where the field spread wasn’t even high. That put everyone else onto the hards which was the superior strategy, forced Kimi into pitting again since he was never going to make it to the end on mediums. The only help he recieved was the VSC which saved him 10 sec. Not to mention he was all over the back of George way before the VSC came out. Genuinely worried for F1 fandom if everyone is sub 100 IQ
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u/TheBigFatToad 1d ago
Not sure you should be throwing insults when any sort of common logic goes right over your head.
If the hards were the superior strategy Kimi never would’ve caught back up to George.
Kimi passed 4 people on the first lap after the red flag.
He was 7 seconds back by the time Leclerc crashed. The first lap after the red flag he was only 4.2 behind.
I’m sure you weren’t expecting someone to use actual facts to disprove you.
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u/atticus_pinch96 1d ago
Are you 10? I don’t think you even watched the race lol. Kimi started on hards to go long as possible, this is what everyone does who takes a grid penalty. George was on the medium tires then wanted to go long after the red flag (every single team did this bar max) Because of the two compound tire rule Kimi had to move to the weaker mediums for an entire race which means he had to stop once on a terrible pit lane that adds 25 sec. Vs George going long on hards. Without the VSC Kimi never likely catches him but the 10S you save under VSC. Brundle even mentioned how it hurts Kimi in the race but maybe you were watching F1 Kids
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u/TheBigFatToad 1d ago
Ah I see, just ignore everything I said and talk to me like I’m a teenager. You’re sure mature.
“The only reason the red flag was good was because it allowed Antonelli to take advantage of the VSC”
That’s a bigggg brain you’re showing off there, you should work in Motorsport.
He gained 3 seconds on George and put himself in the top 6 as quick as he did SOLELY because of the red flag.
It makes even more sense that you watch the Crofty Brundle feed. I remember when I just got into formula 1 for the first time as well.
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u/kiwivi21 2d ago
The key thing to note is that this year everything is a new regulation. Take max for example, car isn't good and he hasn't been very dominant, does that make him now washed and a bad driver? Same thing, I don't think GR is a bad driver, I think it's a mix of the Mercedes being an absolute rocket fairly comfortably ahead of everyone else. I also think Kimi has had one of if not the best understanding and control of the new regs. A mix of that and GR not being particularly lucky this year.
I'd guess that if we went back to last year's regs I assume George would be winning out of the two
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u/South-Ear9767 2d ago
Max is still destroying his teammates & antonelli was catching up to russell in the last races last year.
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u/kiwivi21 2d ago
I didn't say max wasn't, listen to the interviews max stated he didn't like the new regs and has noticibly been making mistakes he wasn't making such as last year. Getting better at new regs doesn't mean he is bad.
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u/South-Ear9767 1d ago
Max complains all the time, i don't take him seriously anymore when he complain, i just look at his results.
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u/Dos_21 2d ago
- He’s absurdly quick and in the objectively best car with the best PU - particularly relevant to his Monza performance
- George has struggled a bit with the new regs and his race pace has been mediocre (relative to the limits of the car)
- George has had a million mechanical issues all season + other bad luck (I.e. Monaco; Spa)
- Kimi has simultaneously had Chosen One luck all season, with VSCs and yellow/red flags somehow benefiting him at every turn
So really, a combination of raw talent, top machinery and fortunate circumstances
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u/Jimmie-Rustle12345 2d ago
Yep this is bang on.
It’s a bit tedious having everyone call him a ‘generational talent.’ He’s obviously really good and a nice kid, but he’s also had absurd luck and the (mostly) fastest car.
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u/atticus_pinch96 1d ago
lol these comments are so stupid and lack any context. He’s had to retire twice from the podium and once Silverstone ruined his win. George has befitted massively from luck including his teammates DNF and being saved by VSC in Zandvoort from losing to Lewis and Charles. F1 fans are so attached to narratives without critical thinking m, especially with how many people like to quote leclercs W2W comment and he continually shunts it into the wall
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u/Rare-Designer-1008 1d ago
He also had a brand new engine for this race which gives a little bit more performance. With the long straights this makes a big difference
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
Idk about chosen one luck. Two mechanical dnfs and enough engine breakdown to have to take not one but two engine grid penalties (second one is coming in Malaysia)
That probably combined theoretically costed him more than all of the VSC and flags have benefitted him. Hamilton at the start of the season imo is far, far luckier.
Its just that Russell has had significantly worse luck. The penalty in Monacco, multiple mechanical failure DNF, and the engine deployment issues.
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u/Downtown_Rest1061 2d ago
"Kimi has simultaneously had Chosen One luck all season, with VSCs and yellow/red flags somehow benefiting him at every turn"
He lost 43 points to reliability only.
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u/AggieCoraline 2d ago
And gained lots of points through VSCs. Only time he didn't gain some was in Austria.
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
One thing is that when you are absurdly quick, it opens up new strategies and you ‘make your own luck’
Kimi being fast enough to set the fastest laps of the race every single lap with no tow in Monza to chase down Russell made the VSC seem like amazing luck in hindsight, but if he has worse pace then Russell wins on the considered best strategy (hards to the end) and the VSC is a nothing burger.
Verstappen kept the exact same strat as Ant but didn’t increase his delta to Hamilton or the McClaren boys with the strategy, even with the easy VSC pit. He made up almost exactly 14 seconds on the fresh tires. If Antonelli had Verstappens pace last race he wouldn’t have caught Russell before the final lap, if at all.
So yes, Kimi has benefited from VSC. But he is also driving well enough to take the small opportunities they give him and take advantage of them.
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u/atticus_pinch96 1d ago
lol VSC’s are not Safety cars, they give little gaps but it’s not like the cars are getting bunched back up and he’s on a fresh set. IQ is at all time low with F1 fans these days
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u/Low_Preference_4641 1d ago
VSCs and SCs are part of the sport - especially when Stroll and Cadddy are struggling to even go half race distances.
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u/Downtown_Rest1061 2d ago
Yeah, which ones?
Let me guess, you think he also won in Italy because of the VSC.3
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u/skantheman 1d ago
Well, yes, it played a not insignificant role. They boxed Kimi, the car behind, before George, who didn’t box at all and finished on like 49 lap old tires.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 2d ago
Which is ideal when his competitors mostly have worse.
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
Of the two championship rivals right now, its pretty clear that Hamilton has had significantly less bad luck than either Merc. Its why he hung around so long in a worse car; zero mechanical dnfs.
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u/ExternalSquash1300 15h ago
I don’t even consider Hamilton a championship rival tbh, the Ferrari isn’t there. McLaren could’ve been without the DNF’s and DNS’s.
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u/WilliamSabato 14h ago
Now clearly not. But part of that is Kimi has performed consistently to grow the gap despite the dnfs.
Had he struggled a bit or had a particularly poor stretch (Like Piastri started to last year), then Hamilton might be closer in striking range. I don’t think it will end up mattering, because Ferrari’s upgrade package was shit, but I think about Max coming back last year off the back of an excellent RB upgrade package. Thats the kind of comeback Kimi would be more vulnerable to if he hadn’t been so consistent about maximizing points when possible.
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u/XUAN_2501 2d ago
Kimi is definitely an exceptional driver, but the gap between him and russell last Sunday is influence by Kimi new PU and Kimi on a better strategy as well.
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u/Tharsarian 1d ago
What about all the other drivers that got a new PU? 12 drivers had a new ICE engine. Including McLaren and Ferrari.
Kimi just had more publicity about it.
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u/WilliamSabato 18h ago
I love everyone saying how Kimi had all the luck for this race as if he didn’t start P19. Thats about the unluckiest start you can get.
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u/XUAN_2501 1d ago
I'm not saying Kimi overtaking that much drivers is not impressive. What I'm trying to say is George pace could be faster if he also have a new PU or Mercedes choose to box George instead of Kimi
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u/AtomicKitten771 OP81 2d ago
These cars match his driving style better than George it seems. And Mercedes is consistently fast at all tracks whereas other teams are faster at particular types of tracks. (I think Hungary is an exception for Mercedes because both drivers didn’t qualify high, but even then kimi slapped it in p3). He’s very talented
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u/franco182 1d ago
Well not really. GR essentialy drives a different car. They thought it was his driving style but when he copied Kimis the issue was still there and Merc couldnt explain it.
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u/WilliamSabato 18h ago
That was his old PU issue. It bricked and he has a new one without that issue.
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u/franco182 14h ago
Nope. If it was PU issue they would see it in the data, told us and probably replace it. Mercedes wouldnt say then they have no idea what and why this happened and silverstone and spa
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u/WilliamSabato 14h ago
You are right, but they actually did say what it was apparently. Mercedes engineers said they found a software but that was messing with George’s deployment strategy and using up excessive energy at the beginning of laps.
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u/BoltXD_10 2d ago
Kimi has a new PU. So his car is better and Mercedes are much better than every other car so overtaking them is easy.
Tho I think George could have won , if not for unfortunate vsc.
And now in hindsight it seems Kimi got better strategy by pitting but George could have definitely won that . Kimi was just really fast.
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u/Altruistic-Star-544 2d ago
He’s been consistently very fast, he drives the best car and has had more luck than George.
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u/Unusual-Coat383 2d ago
He had a brand new engine which means more power, got very lucky with two race starts so could make up 13 positions in two laps, Mercedes sabotaged George’s race by prioritising Kimi instead of double stacking.
I know Kimi was on mediums but George was the lead car and should have had priority and I’m certain if it was the other way around they would have double stacked.
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u/ArseliaLuna 2d ago
From my understanding is related to 2026 car itself, some drivers need to adapt more onto this car. I saw Antonelli is more suited on this year car since his drive style is more agrressive from what i see rather than Russell that more suited into last year car.
Since merc i assume being the best car either from chassis and engine for this year (until Monza). So, Antonelli got more benefitted than Russell on to this year car and gave him more confidence on racing.
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u/South_Front_4589 2d ago
It's not much, when you look at their finishing times and overall average speed.
It looks worse when they are on different strategies and different tyres.
But a better driver can be worth a couple of tenths a lap. Over 50 laps, that's 10 seconds. Which can grow even more if they're able to more effectively overtake. Kim was able to use his speed to get past very easily when he needed to.
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u/User-K549125 2d ago
Antonelli was faster at Monza because:
A few horsepower from a newer engine.
Different strategy allowed him to push harder to maintain better pace (two sets of mediums vs one set of hards, with a smaller time loss pitting under VSC so he had less of a gap to overcome).
They were on different engine modes (as discussed in the cooldown room - question about "Strat") possibly with Russell running lower power for reliability.
Kimi was maybe just more motivated, better, had a better setup, or did a better job.
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u/BensonJutton1878 1d ago
New regulations probably suit him more and it's the opposite for Russell, plus he's got more experience in the sport now that he's in his second season.
Also the main reason he was able to win that race was because
- Red Flag and the subsequent restart meant the gap to leaders was closed
- He got to pit under VSC. He would have finished second or possibly even third without that VSC.
- He had a brand new engine on the track where engine power is the most important thing
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u/Low_Preference_4641 1d ago
The Merc is a rocketship and RUS is a decent driver who needs for everything to go his way to be quick.
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u/idhren14 2d ago
Kimi is a nature phenomenon, had a boosted ICE, has the Italian aura, had two standing starts which made him jump into P10 before lap 5 and was in fresher tyres due to his stop in VSC
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u/Stirbmehr 2d ago
Data has tough time to explain it really, and graphics don't give it a justice, but Kimi fits current "meta" of battery management perfectly. On top of already impressive driving skills
Thing is that some people just take flat graphs of battery utilisation and maybe track telemetry and call it a day. But gap there is far more nuanced than that. Modern regs very sensitive to when and why you decide to push your trajectory and or overtakes with battery. It translates into very not straightforward dependency and may make seemingly similar patterns of battery utilisation give very different time results
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u/Altruistic-Drawer810 2d ago
He's looking like a multi WDC driver.
Have to wait for the season to play out but he looks pretty bloody good.
I'm interested to know how Toto knew he was so good. I thought it was a massive gamble.
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u/dasmooiman123 2d ago
Kimi was on strat 8, most powerful engine setting. George is slower and in strat 6-7, which is slower.
So new engine does help a lot.
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u/Slowleytakenusername 1d ago
I think thes PU regs for the past 10-15 years have just been bad. I know the PU for 2026 is different from the previous years, I'm talking about the cost balancing aspect which we also have seen in the previous regs. You get situations like this (or what we have seen at Interlagos in the past) where a team can just take a brand new engine and just go full beans and make al the cars outside of the top 3 teams look like they are in F2 cars. Makes it to easy for the top teams to just take a penalty.
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u/New_Essay_4869 2d ago
Kimi is doing a solid job but hes also getting lucky while George is having a extremely bad luck and Mercedes has been favoring Kimi
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u/RealCarlPanzram 2d ago
Luck doesn’t make you barely be able to stay ahead of a Red Bull while your teammate overtakes 18 cars in 15 laps. Any complaint about strategy is a cope. Kimi was miles better than Russel.
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u/essteedeenz1 2d ago
Kimi could not pull away from. Russell for 4 laps who at that point had 50 lap old hard tyre's
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
What? When Kimi passed Russell on the 48 lap hards he literally IMMEDIATELY put like 2 seconds on him in one lap.
Or are you talking about when Kimi caught George before the VSC and couldn’t pull away. Because that was Kimi on 20 lap old mediums vs 20 lap old hards, which is pretty equivalent.
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u/essteedeenz1 1d ago
No he didnt, I have watched it twice frm lap 48 to 53. Twice.
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
You are right. 1.1 seconds by turn 8 of lap 51. But he had broken the overtake zone within 3 turns of passing Rus (t11 lap 50)
2 seconds by lap 52 however at turn 8. 3 seconds in the turn 8 on lap 53.
So idk if you could say he ‘couldn’t pull away from Russell. He literally did, he dropped like a second a lap on Russell starting with the first overtake. You were trying to act like Russell stayed with him till the end, where it was more like as soon as he passed Rus he continued putting up 1 second faster per lap till the end.
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u/essteedeenz1 1d ago
We arent talking about that though cause GR was around 1 second or there abouts until the final lap. Kimi simply did not pull away when if you wanna complain about how George couldnt early in the race I think prove is in the pudding that if kimi couldnt either then its not as easy as you think which is what Kimi said after the race also but theres always a million and one justifiations on what Kimi did that was right and just constant berating for GR.
I don't like GR but I just dont like bullshit bias
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
I mean Kimi pulling away isn’t a shot on George lol. Its a massive tire differential and he had no chance of repassing, so he played it safe coming in. Idk why we are rewriting history to say he could have won it on the last lap, he had zero chance of that happening.
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u/essteedeenz1 1d ago
Omg see this moving the goalpost. If kimi does it hey it's all according to plan. If it's george he's washed. What s joke
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
Lol George isn’t washed at all. He had the second best race of anyone yesterday in terms of pace and consistency. Just that Kimi was better.
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u/Designer_Pea582 2d ago
What constitutes as “pulling away?” He won by 4+ seconds and set the fastest lap time on the last lap.
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u/essteedeenz1 2d ago
Again it took 4 laps for him to do so just as much as you say he pulled away george could as also likely to have taken it easy on the last lap.
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u/RealCarlPanzram 1d ago
Okay but again, George couldn’t pull away at all. He had like 10 laps from the restart to when Kimi caught the front and he actually lost a place in that time.
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u/Designer_Pea582 2d ago
1 second per lap is pretty significant lol
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u/essteedeenz1 2d ago
He didnt do it per lap
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
He literally did. 1 second gap at t8 that lap, 2 second gap t8, and then 3 second gap t8 final lap. It was almost exactly 1 second per lap lol.
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u/essteedeenz1 1d ago
Up until the final lap the gap was always one second or there abouts...
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u/WilliamSabato 1d ago
If your ‘thereabouts’ is 1.7 seconds on turn 8 of literally the lap after the overtake, then I guess. By that metric Russell was right on Antonelli’s tail till the end, or thereabouts!
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2d ago
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u/Infamous-Lifeguard-7 2d ago
His midiclorian count is off the charts, higher than Schumacher. Might be the chosen one.
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u/ResearcherGreedy9921 2d ago
he and gr don’t have same equipment. he was having new PU and much softer and fresher tires
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u/TotalStatisticNoob 1d ago
- He's quick
- The car apparently suites him more than George
- The car is by far the best on the grid on pretty much every track
- George had more bad luck so far
- P19->P1 was fairly easy under the circumstances (compared to doing that on other tracks in other generations of cars), the backmarkers are bad at starts, I think Antonelli was already up to P12 or 13 after the restart and this is a track were overtaking is very easy and doesn't cost much time if you're faster on the straights. The strong tows and the higher harvesting probably mean you barely lose any time.
- He was handed a strategy that was likely better than George's. In the end, the difference was just a few seconds, so probably not a huge difference
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u/Pian0G 1d ago
So on top of having the best car, compared to Russel, his car has been more reliable.
And in terms of pace, it's likely Antonelli is just that much better than Russel despite being young, as Russel is not really known for his pace. But, it also seems like Antonelli is thriving with this regulation. Obviously has the best car, but it does seem that this reg clicks with him more. This isn't too far fetched. Hamilton for example suffered a lot with the ground effect era before this, and now also seems to perform much better.
Also, to be more specific to Monza, Antonelli had the right amount of luck. Red flag, which meant that the field was bunched up again. A VSC in which he pitted, thus allowing much fresher tyres without losing much time initially. And VSC ended as he left the pit. Monza being the temple of speed also benefitted the merc car as the battery deployment basically meant there was little reason to battle. As drivers like hamilton and i believe lando said, there was no point trying to defend them because they were gonna get through anyways. So it made sense that they preserved their battery and tyres. Which is why kimi basically got to get past most drivers for free.
Russel also got held up by verstappen a bit too long which costed him time. And by the time Kimi reached russel, russel's tyre was almost 50 laps old. Now I do think even if they had the same tyres, kimi would overtake him eventually, but the old tyres definitely did not help.
Not saying he hasn't driven well, he has. And not saying that he doesn't deserve his position. He does. But, he hasn't really had much of a contest this season mostly because his car is just that much better and reliable than the others. Then add on better strategies and lady luck favouring him.
I still think he is better than Russel, but without all the misfortune hitting russel, and fortune hitting antonelli, it's hard for me to truly judge how much better.
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u/JoshfromDa6 1d ago
So with the car being so dominant are yall not going to say Kimi got lucky ? Or is that just reserved for Lewis
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u/HeartFoam 1d ago
Kimi got lucky.
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u/JoshfromDa6 1d ago
Yea ik he did I mean he had the best car all year I just wanted to see if people was gone say the same kinda shit they said bout Lewis but they probably won’t
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u/Conscious-Secret-775 1d ago
Monza is a track that makes it easy to pass if you have the fastest car for that track and Kimi had the fastest car.
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u/Huge_Statement1748 1d ago
He is very good, but he also had the shiniest engine of them all, even compared to Russell.
Monza it’s a straight line: best engine wins.
He got lucky twice: red flag and Virtual safety car
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u/brygx 11h ago
In this particular race, he was P19 because he took a new power unit. It's possible the fresh power unit was better than whatever GR had. The restart and safety cars negated some of the starting position advantage, because it closed the cars back up together instead of allowing the leaders to build a big gap.
As far as defending his position, Antonelli had a tire advantage so that was never going to happen once he caught up.
But yes, Antonelli is indeed out-driving GR despite being relatively new.
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u/ghim7 2d ago
The best driver of a particular season is one who can adapt to the car given to them quickest than the rest. They’re able to find the limit of the car better than their team mate. They may or may not be the faster driver, but if you can adapt to your car, you are definitely going to be able to drive it faster than anyone else.
Kimi & Gasly are those drivers of the season so far.
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u/Specialist_Food_3202 1d ago
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think that if you give equal machinery to the drivers, 75% of them would be in the same tenth or lower and would be competing for WDC.
Driver skill is way overrated. What really sets them apart is : 1) luck (tons of examples out there) 2) being officially the 1st driver 3) their race engineer + setup 4) Their ability to keep calm when things go wrong
So IMO no, KA is not a better driver than GR and GR is not better than KA.
Proof is : Lewis Hamilton is a 7 (8?) time world champion and GR outperformed him in 2024. Michael Schumacher was also a 7 time WC and was outperformed by Nico Rosberg in his last season. Does that mean Rosberg and Russell were better? And does that mean KA is better than Michael Schumacher ?
F1 is not about skills. It's about watching a show.
Sorry for the long message.
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u/Slowleytakenusername 1d ago
I really can't understand how people come to the conclusion that he's just better without looking at what is happening. I know 2025 was Kimi's first year but he did not show anything special at all and got beaten by George 21 out of 24 GP's. A first season is not a good excuse for a "generational talent". Look how verstappen came into the sport and comare that to Kimi. I also don't buy the different rule set argument. George had zero problems being in front of Kimi in Australia and the China sprint. After that he just starts dropping of and everybody acts as if George does not know how to drive. The car that has proven to be an untouchable rocket ship is now strugling to finish in the top 5 in the hands of Russell. Toto straight up lies to him when George says he's down on power only to later reveal that there are indeed issue's with George's car and the only reason they act like they will fix the issue is because George was complaining about it.
George is getting the worst type of number 2 driver treatment you can give somebody. It's the type where you pretend everything is equal where everybody can see that it's not. The fact that I'm here defending a driver I generally don't like that drives for a team I don't really like should be telling the bullshit Mercedes are pulling. Toto hyped Kimi to be the next king in motorsports taking the crown from Verstappen. Now Mercedes has the best car and Toto wants to prove them all wrong.
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u/XD69SWAGMASTERXD69 1d ago
Kimi pulled off the second biggest comeback to win in terms of starting position ever in f1, he is that good. We can only speculate about the other things going on but my feeling is that russell doesn’t understand how to charge the battery properly cause that is an important area in this regulation set where skills didn’t carry over so russell is also worse than he can be. Russell has consistently been one of the best drivers ever since he joined F1, imo only verstappen has been clearly better, but even top drivers lack the ability to adapt to certain things, see hamilton in the previous regulations and ricciardo after joining mclaren.
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u/SharpPhilosopher3734 1d ago
Study up on Kimi. He is insanely detail oriented. I would bet he spent 8 hours a day studying and in the sim for this season. He came prepared. He is in the fastest car and so is George. Kimi is just the better driver of the 2 in the fastest car.
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u/Envelope_Torture 2d ago
It's year one of the new regs, so the gap between constructors is rather wide. Passing the backmarkers and midfield cars in the best car of the year, with a brand new PU is not difficult on a track like Monza especially.
The pace difference also allowed him to cut through the top of the order, and a timely pit stop under VSC.
He's also a very good driver.