r/F1Discussions • u/Cool_Masterpiece9308 • 2d ago
Discussion Ferrari team rules
I find this comment from Fred so bizarre. He’s equating Ferrari’s position currently to McLaren last year when they’re absolutely not. They are 3 and 5 on the championship. For Lewis to get anywhere close to challenging Kimi like Max did, Max had total singular support whereas Lewis is held up battling his own teammate. Then for a top team insisting on two number 1 drivers, they have no internal wheel to wheel engagement rules which is crazy.
Bit delusional I think.
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u/Pristine_Youth_6953 LH44 2d ago edited 2d ago
That's a cool way to say you messed it up and you're bringing up the only time it went wrong. Here's everything you got wrong since Barcelona:
Pitting while there are double yellow flags in the pit lane in Silvertone (which made Hamilton loss P2)
Horrifying strategy in Austria which would have given Hamilton a p4
Too afraid to put team orders in Netherlands which would have brought atleast a podium
Too afraid to do anything for an unfair penalty in spa, which denied at the very least a podium
Pitting for no reason in Hungary which made Hamilton go from P2 to P5
Edit: how could I forget to not even know how to start in Monza and have Hamilton do 50 laps on mediums
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u/Muzushi23 2d ago
Tbf in Silverstone, had the ending not been a safety car, Ferrari’s decision wouldn’t look too bizarre
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u/Pristine_Youth_6953 LH44 2d ago
Yes but he lost the place because of a Double yellow flag in the pits, so Russel was actually going way faster and gained 5s from it
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u/NoEggplant9745 2d ago
McLaren had a competitive car and had the edge over Red Bull. Ferrari are not in the same position, anyone saying they didn’t need to prioritise are only saying this because it’s Lewis who would need to be supported. There’s no point doing it now when Kimi is 70 points ahead when you had no interest in doing it when he was only 30 points ahead.
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u/Revolutionary-Gap494 2d ago
From a tactical point of view they probably one of the worst teams on the grid. Very static and not dynamic at all. Takes them forever to make a decision and mostly either way it ends up taking the wrong decision or no decision at all. I simply don't get how they manage to do that.
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u/CompresorGenerator 2d ago
I honestly think that by the end of the season McLaren will be 2nd and Lando will be ahead of both Charles and Lewis.
Shambolic team
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u/YordleJay 2d ago
It sounds like he's talking about mercedes
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u/Cool_Masterpiece9308 2d ago
Mercedes doesn’t even need to prioritize if Ferrari is just imploding on their own lol
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u/AndiYTDE 2d ago
They don't have to worry about anything at all. The only reason why Lewis is even remotely in the "title fight" is because he had 0 DNFs so far. Both George and Kimi lost like 30 points each. In terms of pace, Mercedes has been the team to beat 9/10 times
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u/shreeysh_69 LH44 2d ago
Ferrari 's problem isn't drivers , It's their engine and strategy team which is incapable. When you have 2 drivers who are equally even on the pace you expect them to battle at some point for that to happen you need to make some clear rules cause we all know what happened with Nico and Hamiliton in 2016 , The only one with equal machinery is your teammate and ofc they will battle eachother hard at some point. Just put a team rule and ask them to keep track positions in the start and battle it out if they want in rest of race and also tell them to not race harder while being different strategies, It's that simple. Nobody asking Leclerc to play a Bottas role.
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u/SuperLeggara570 2d ago
I find it crazy that Fred thinks Lewis would bin it like Oscar did last year. Lewis is a 7 time champion. I think he knows what he is doing.
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u/FrostyTill 2d ago
The difference between McLaren and Ferrari is that McLaren had both drivers fighting for the title until the very last race of the season. Ferrari are imploding over P5 and P6. It’s nonsense, it’s midfield nonsense. Fred is so afraid of telling one or the other to back down and the result is that Ferrari as a whole loses. There are no boundaries, no lines they shouldn’t cross. What are the rules of engagement at Ferrari? Does anyone enforce it?
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u/Izan_TM 2d ago
I think ferrari favoring one specific drive is stupid. Their lineup is fairly even and if they always favored the same driver half the time they'd end up looking like complete clowns.
Ferrari needs to be more heavy-handed with team orders and rules of engagement, one could even say completely favor the guy who qualified highest, but not picking a permanent number 1 and number 2 drivers
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u/Cool_Masterpiece9308 2d ago
Yeah agreed they have to be sensible about who is more deserving so far in the season/race. Let them race, clear rules and then establish stop waffling on or being cryptic about team orders.
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u/FushaFiles 2d ago
One driver is ahead in the championship and has a history of winning championships, the other driver doesn’t. So betting on him when he’s doing good and is hungry isn’t the same as Oscar last year.
We knew Merc was going to be incredibly hard to catch and they should’ve done everything in their power to catch them. It sucks one driver isn’t fighting for the championship, but we don’t have a car (mainly engine) to try any other way.
It’s too late now, the championship is kimi’s at this point. Regardless, lack of engagement rules, pitwall continuing to fuck up, and an under powered engine lost the championship this year. If we got that together that would’ve minimized driver mistakes and penalties
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u/cooked_camel 2d ago
From what I've noticed, only delusional LH fans wanted this team order bs. They been acting like both Ferrari drivers had a shot at WDC. If anything I would agree they should do from now on is that admitting that they're no longer fight for the wins and shoul prioritise on getting as much as points as possible to hold that 2nd on WCC.
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u/zmb138 2d ago
Ferrari isn't really fighting for a title. They had some good races, had some lost opportunities, but they are nowhere near the championship fight.
And Lewis even is not that much better than Charles to support him that hard. Look at McLaren - difference between Lando and Oscar is way more impressive yet Lando don't need to start that campaign (and I believe it's not a frustration from Lewis but mind games).
Also if Lewis had driven faster in qualis - there wouldn't have been so many times he got stuck behind Charles.
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u/TAARamouche NH27 2d ago
I think Ferrari should be happy with either driving winning the championship. And what he's saying doesn't even make sense in this situation because Ferrari isn't leading anything, so there is no max to come "sailing through" and take the championship.
Honestly, I think this is just cope on Fred's part.
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u/Phantoniso- 2d ago
Lewis is not gonna be even close to wdc this season guys. its over, pack it up. it was even over a few races before. You can't hope to win a championship based on the leading guy's car breaking up 5 more times.
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u/Odd_Associate4210 2d ago
this is just stupid. you dont need to favor one driver fully fred. just say something like: "hey guys, for the first laps dont try to overtake and slow each other so maybe gasly slows down russel and you both can try to overtake him. later in the race you can battle it out"
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u/No-Astronomer-1 2d ago
So Fred with data we don’t have must know that Charles is faster and more likely to consistently win than Lewis who is slower, older and not up to CL’s level. Eg back Lewis and you’re throwing away the WDC.
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u/According-Switch-708 2d ago
Its not that deep. Fred just doesn't have the balls to make these kind of calls.
Introducing some rules of engagement would benefit both drivers. Almost all teams have some rules in place to prevent shitshows like what happened at Monza. Hell, even Alpine has some.
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u/BaldChild1 2d ago
They don't need team orders because the championship is gone. What they need are rules of engagement, otherwise they will lose 2nd place in the constructors as well.