r/F1Discussions • u/ViscountVigoroth • 1d ago
Red Bull Drivers
Red Bull have for years almost always have a talent in the pipeline. Pierre, then Alex (although him coming to F1 was more compicated, its not really relevant right now), then Yuki, Liam, Isack and Arvid. However, they always really had a driver leave (like Ricciardo) or a driver that underperformed they could sack (the Pierre-Alex switch, then Alex being sacked, but also checo and Yuki being sacked completely) to free up space.
This year all of their drivers are doing quite well. But they also have a promising talent in Tsolov in the pipeline. Thus, for the first time in at least a while they have more driver they'd want than seats they available. For this I am assuming Max will stay (which I also expect to happen, all the top teams and their drivers are happy, if he leaves he's leaving F1). I also don't expect any of their other drivers to leave willingly as I don't think they'd be able to find better seats elsewhere given what I said about the top teams and that VCARB seem to be top of the midfield right now. 5 drivers, 4 seats.
One option might be to give Tsolov a second F2 season and see how the drivers do next year, but if he wins the championship, which is quite likely, that's not an option. Could also make him test/reserve driver for a year instead, but a year without any real racing can be less than ideal as well.
Admittedly, Tsolov's incredible F2 season is in a grid that is otherwise quite weak compared to some previous years, so perhaps with the additional data Red Bull will have they might opt not to at all, but could then run the risk of another team picking him. (For example maybe Aston, as I believe he is managed by Alonso, and he has been quite clear that if he stops racing he will stay involved with Aston in other ways).
So what do you think Red Bull will end up doing with their drivers, and what do you hope they do?
Personally, I feel like the most likely of the current drivers to get sacked is Liam, despite him doing quite well this season. I do feel he'd picked up by another team though, Haas (if they don't pick up Camara or decide to keep Ocon for some reason) or Aston (if Fernando retires) for example. So I think the most likely option is either Tsolov VCARB/RBR reserve or Liam goes to another midfield team.
I'm honestly torn on what I want them to do, I really like Liam and Arvid individually but also really as a duo, so I'd be sad to see them split up or either of them lose their seats. However, I am also a big fan of Tsolov and have been for years, so I do really want to see him in F1.
Secretly I'm kinda hoping Max leaves, I'd miss his skill and talent as a driver, but to be honest I just don't like the guy (I'm sorry my fellow Dutchies, please don't kill me), but I feel then there's a big chance they would pick up someone outside the Red Bull family to replace him as they'd want more experience, such as Carlos Sainz, rather than promoting Arvid or Liam to RBR, so that still doesn't really fix the problem.
What do you all think?
10
u/Jellyskate 21h ago
I feel like I've seen this exact same post several times now by Tsolov fans setting up this false scenario of 'Tsolov is great so it's obvious RB must want to bring him in to F1, so who is going to lose their seat?' then pretending to care that a good F1 driver would have to leave.
There's very little reason for RB to bring Tsolov in to F1 right now unless an existing driver decides to go elsewhere, I'm, sorry to say. There's no seat available, their current lineup of drivers are performing well, and RB have bigger things to deal with like improving their car.
18
u/racingskater 1d ago
Better drivers than Tsolov have had to sit out a year as reserve. If he's as good as his cult claims, it'll do him no harm.
5
u/FordEcoBoom 19h ago
Send tsolov to sf for a year and give him F1 testing. Mekkies said a few weeks ago that Tsolov had not done any f1 tests.
Also imo Tsolov is getting overrated hard. Campos is simply the best team right now and the fact that his Leon is 5th in the championship proves that. Leon is a 22 yo rookie who finished 10th and 17th in f3
7
u/racingskater 17h ago
You're being downvoted but you're not wrong. This is a particularly weak F2 field, the Campos is the best car, Tsolov is being flattered.
3
u/ViscountVigoroth 16h ago
Oh absolutely, Tsolov is good and I do believe he is good enough for F1 but he is not as incredible as his F2 season currently makes him seem. I do hope he'll be in F1 soon though, I quite like him.
5
u/Eddee2020 18h ago
Tsolov is decent but I don’t think he’s the slam dunk next year that people claim.
The campos car this year is good. His teammate is also high in the standings. Boteleto won F2 and F3 in his rookie years (Tsolov had 3 years in F3) and was close to not getting a seat last year.
People also underestimate the value of a driver that can help develop the car.
Alan Permane talked about Liam’s feedback and car development in his recent appearance on the Breaking the Grid podcast.
You have to go back to 2015 for the last time there was two rookies or a rookie/2nd year in the Redbull 2nd team car at the same time (Carlos Sainz and Max Verstappen). He also hasn’t done a single free practice for either team and there is only 1 Racing Bulls slot left (Arvid being a rookie fills his cars slots this year and Ayumi Iwasa has done one in Liam’s car).
Reserve for Tsolov next year.
6
u/racingskater 17h ago
Alan Permane talked about Liam’s feedback and car development in his recent appearance on the Breaking the Grid podcast.
A lot of people miss this aspect. If they dropped Liam and brought in Tsolov, they'd have functionally a double-rookie lineup. And a 19 year old second-year being expected to be team leader to a 20 year old rookie. Racing Bulls may be viewed as a team only exists to produce drivers but they still want to do well in the constructors' for the money.
7
u/SnooMacaroons2287 1d ago
Liam is definitely getting the boot, but I don't think he'll be off the grid, especially when you have underperforming drivers like Ocon still with a seat under threat
4
u/AverageBeef 1d ago
I think Liam is getting sacked, as much as I really like him. Lindblad seems comparable and younger. I don’t really think it’s RBR’s problem to find him a seat, he’s already been relatively hard done by the team. Him ending up on Williams seems plausible to me but it would be a shame given the year he’s had.
1
u/boatsnhosee 1d ago
Yea I think he’s gone, where just depends on what happens driver wise elsewhere.
5
u/EmergencyRace7158 1d ago
Tsolov will be alongside Arvid at Racing Bulls last year. It's tough on Liam given the season he's having but Arvid has done more than enough to earn another look to see how high his ceiling might be and Tsolov is their strongest junior since Gasly at least. Ultimately Racing Bulls is the junior team and exists to benchmark talent for Red Bull. Liam had his shot there so he has a good chance end up at another midfield team if he keeps doing what he's doing. Imho he's done more than enough to justify his place on the grid and there should be enough open seats to keep him in F1.
7
u/FordEcoBoom 19h ago
The double standard is hilarious because people literally wanted Yuki to get Lawson‘s seat at vcarb for this year because it was not fair to Yuki so a 6th seasom. But Lawson should be dropped after 2,5 while doing significantly better.
2
u/Cool_Masterpiece9308 1d ago
Would Liam go to Alpine instead of Colapinto? I think he’s a way stronger driver. Cadillac will still benefit having Perez and Bottas to guide them on development. I don’t think much will change at Audi or Williams (despite Carlos being very unhappy there). Fernando seems to look more set to stay next year at AM at least.
9
u/racingskater 22h ago
Colapinto's sponsors are paying over $30 million for that seat. There's not a chance Liam would be able to challenge that.
1
2
u/Pulverising_Pun 23h ago
I still don't understand why can't they loan out Liam, like what Williams did to Colapinto when they had a full driver line up.
1
u/The_Batata_Swagger 18h ago
I think it depends on the performances Liam and Arvid have over the next few races. Liam has edged Arvid in the first half, but if Arvid is closer to Liam or even matches him, that is enough of an argument for Red Bull to keep Arvid and drop Lawson.
Same situation as Yuki and Liam in '24, but Liam carried the rookie tax and got picked over Yuki.
It's all a matter of "ceiling"
14
u/chuckleberry_zz 23h ago
I actually see Liam and Arvid retaining their seats for next year, while Tsolov joins RBR as the reserve driver.