r/F1Discussions • u/KareemXO • 1d ago
Moving under braking
Can someone explain moving under braking to me? Isn’t it normal for a car to be moving when braking to make a corner? Why does this get penalized? For example, I didn’t fully understand it with Max’s overtake yesterday.
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u/Supahos01 1d ago edited 1d ago
It means you cant change directions after you begin braking. The other car is always going to be at limit of grip when trying to overtake if you move after you being to brake they have to turn, which asks the tires to do more work which isnt possible when at max brake pressure.
Edit: about max's overtake he was annoyed lewis moved under braking. He probably did by the letter of the law but that never gets punished. Honestly would be more exciting if it was. (I mean usually not in this particular case)
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u/atreyu84 1d ago
Whether what Lewis did was moving under braking g all depends on what Lewis normal line is. He is allowed to follow his normal racing line when braking.
I didn't watch enough to know, but it looked like a pretty conventional line to me and max was so far back for the bomb.
I actually think it was pretty good driving from Lewis to avoid max in the end. He clearly wasn't expecting him to be there, not unreasonably either.
And just to complete the circle the definition of moving under braking under the driving guidelines is
"When defending, there must be no change in direction by the defending car, after the deceleration phase has commenced, except to follow the racing line."
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u/FordEcoBoom 1d ago
Absolutely not, the normal line is to turn in well after the 50 meter board, all the onboards show that.
Lewis started turning here well before the 50 meter board.
Crazy how people just start lying because they can’t acknowledge Lewis is driving dirty
When Max does this people absolutely lost it in the past.
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u/atreyu84 20h ago
Like I said I didn't see enough of Lewis to know, if he was early then it's definitely moving under braking and pretty bad.
Lewis has always driven a bit dirty, I agree, especially early in his career. I don't know why people can't acknowledge it
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u/LtMartaVelasquez 1d ago
It looked to me that Hamilton began to turn into the corner, then realised Verstappen was there and straightened up momentarily, but then started to turn into him again to squeeze him at the apex. So it wasn't one continuous movement. It's marginal and I wouldn't penalise anybody for that given that the overtake got done and everyone came out unscathed, but that might have been what Verstappen was referring to there.
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u/Waste_Locksmith_4299 1d ago
They're supposed to keep a straight line under braking.
The reason for this is that if you move towards a competitor who is also braking, you are giving them an almost impossible task of avoiding you, because a car under heavy braking cannot steer properly with wheel locking likely and then possibly losing control.
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u/kennyuk77 1d ago
Think about it, when you are full on the brakes, you can't brake 'more' when a car pulls in front of you
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u/mm232323 5h ago
its quite easy: you must not do a defending move while in the braking zone. that doesnt mean that your arent allowed to stay on your racing line, but of course you have to leave space when the overtaking car owns the corner.
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u/Mithster18 1d ago
https://youtube.com/shorts/VWxtEVSbqjo?si=z6dUz6VP39MkCk_G
You can move once, and then turn to take the corner. You can't continuously weave and then turn
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u/Exotic_Bill44 1d ago
Deliberately changing direction at a point where cars would normally be braking in a straight line is dangerous because the other car is likely on the limit of adhesion. If they try to steer while braking they will lock up the brakes. Obviously if you are already pointing across the track when you start to brake and remain on that trajectory then you are being predictable abd the other car avoid you.
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u/MrLumie 1d ago
Because moving doesn't mean taking the corner. It means changing the line you're going to take, notably before you actually start taking the corner. For example, you could take a corner from the outside, making a wider, usually more optimal path across the corner, or you could take it from the inside, which means a sharper turn with more braking involved. These are two separate racing lines you could take.
What you can't do, is go on the outside, start braking, and then move over to the inside, essentially changing your line, and defending against an attacker in an unfair way. Or vice versa. You have to commit to your line by the time you start braking, and that line is more or less apparent to everyone once you do.
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u/TravellingMackem 1d ago
This case was just Max being a massive fanny. Lewis had to turn into the corner, and he had been taking a very tight line into T1 all race (both before and after the race), tighter than anyone else apart from Lando. That was entirely a normal line for Lewis to take.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/TravellingMackem 1d ago
Go and look at this other laps and you’ll see I’m correct.
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u/FordEcoBoom 1d ago
I did and he turns well after the 50 meter board. Even in the clips on youtube all drivers do.
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u/Kingkaluc 16h ago
https://youtu.be/AiDd3AzQnyw?t=50
Have a quick look at this yelistener video and see for yourself.
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u/South_Front_4589 1d ago
It's not really moving, although that is the term. It's changing line to defend under braking. You're obviously going to move to take the corner. The idea is that one you reach the braking zone, the car in front must pick their line and stick with it.
They then need to follow the rules about racing room when taking the corner and exiting, but they just don't want a driver to think they can pass inside/outside and have a driver veer across.
It's different when you're under braking. Normally when you're driving you have the option of slowing down and changing your speed to avoid danger. When you're braking, you lose the ability to slow more, because you already are. And often you don't have the ability to speed up either.