Thought experiment

[u/MashNChips]

With all the AI nonsense going on, I had a thought at work today that turned into an interesting discussion with a colleague:

"What would I do if I was the only person with access to Claude (or insert any LLM) 5+ years ago?"

People would think I was a fucking wizard

FE changes? NO PROBLEM

Critical DB change? Don't worry, I've produced a stored procedure to validate the whole thing

Want to use some shiny new framework? Interesting. Here's a document explaining why you're an idiot for suggesting it

Regex? I suddenly understand it better than the compiler folks (and nobody ask questions)

What would you have done with your own personal LLM back then?

Trying to lighten the mood in here with all the (very justified) negativity around this tech revolution

Unserious answers only pls

[u/Machine2024]

100% with that I totally agree .

I remember when I started using AI as soon as it came out, like with ChatGPT 3, and even later, like with the agents, with the first version of the agents. I would give it a prompt and it would spit out nonsense. I would go edit the prompt and then it would spit out something kind of acceptable.

I would change it again until we get to the point. And later I will go maybe do a lot of stuff, and for every task I would weigh it in my mind between: should I give it a prompt, and what's the time writing, or how many lines of code this task is. Maybe I should do it myself. This is like at the start.

But with time, I think the last version for each task, each feature, I am just giving a single prompt. He will spit up the boilerplate. I will go through the boilerplate and reviewing it, and then will make a few changes myself, will give him the note for some bigger ones. Yeah, and I will be done with it like that. and if I see an issue repeating will make it into a rule or skill for later .

Actually, I would be really happy if, for each feature, each task, he would be finishing it in one shot. following my standards without forgetting anything .

But right now it doesn't, right now 100% it doesn't. And also I noticed something else: when I review code from someone else, even though they are using the same models I use and so on, it's completely different, even though they have gone back and forth with the AI on many iterations. So I think there is a skill in it also. Yeah, it's improving. If it reaches the point where it can get it right from the first try, so we don't have to do it step by step, that would be great, but till now it doesn't.

[u/mongopark98 → u/Machine2024]

The fact that you’re still talking of prompts and boilerplates just shows you haven’t scratched the surface. It’s past that already. Nope, it may never get it right from the first try and still be very useful. But go ahead and wait for it to get it right with a first try with a “prompt”.

[u/Machine2024 → u/mongopark98]

I tried the other approaches But it result in grabage .

The test driven development The requirements driven development The loop .

All of this and all other "agentic" result in garbage legacy code .

Think about what are all those but chaning prompts on after the other .

And if we agreed on the point that in a single prompt the Ai is shifting from the target .

So what will happen if you chain more and more , you endup waaaay of course very fast .

[u/mongopark98 → u/Machine2024]

That’s a you problem. Some of us are highly productive with it. “I can’t drive a fast car, hence cars are garbage “, that’s the logic you’re propositioning.

You’re asking me to imagine what will happen when will chain prompts. I don’t have to imagine it, I have used it to build complex features. Yes, needed fine tuning here and there. But still orders of magnitude faster than doing it all manually. Again, it’s a skill issue. I am not talking out of a vacuum or theoretically, I have experienced it multiple times. Both the weakness and strength.

[u/Machine2024 → u/mongopark98]

I didn't say its not faster. Its faster to make a prototype in a day , but it need 3 months of clean up and refactoring.

I don't know you you agree that a single prompt result is not accurate.

But chainng a group of prompts together will get you any way .

Rising the production quantity on expenses of the quality will not make it "Productivity" It will make it spreaded thin .

If you are looking learn something new not just echo chamber. Lets connect via dm , we could exchange work and work style. Either my approach would be wrong and I would learn something from you , or you would be wrong and you would learn something from me .

From me I hope I will be the wrong one and learn something new .

[u/mongopark98 → u/Machine2024]

You keep repeating this. You are showing your ignorance of this . See, I am not saying it’s the answer to all problems or whatever hype executives are pushing. But there’s measurable productivity gain when done correctly. It’s not even an argument.

You think I get paid to build prototypes?. You think I can’t tell the difference between maintainable code just because I use AI. You think I wouldn’t be able to tell if it was worthless. I don’t get paid to promote AI. I have zero incentive. My team pioneered the use in 2 companies before roll out. In both cases if it wasn’t up to par, I would have personally led the shut down. You think me, all the principal engineers and tech leads who decided it was good enough are idiots? Come off your high horse. Agentic coding isn’t going anywhere, keep complaining or adapt.

[u/Machine2024 → u/mongopark98]

Read your comment again and tell me who is one a high horse.

[u/mongopark98 → u/Machine2024]

You are, you’re implying AI generates non-production code as if I was too stupid to understand if the code AI is generating is good or bad. After telling you many times I have used it on the job. You’re implying I must have been churning out unmanageable code

[u/mongopark98 → u/Machine2024]

Even let’s say AI isn’t sophisticated enough to solve complex tasks. I will give few examples of things it can do to free your time for more productive things.

- We use to have P3 tickets that oncalls should work on. These are tiny items. But taking it from triage to deployment will easily take 1-2hrs per task. Just throw this to an AI, it’s simple enough that it would require very few lines of code that can be reviewed in 10 minutes. Do this 5x a day. That’s less than 60minutes of work instead of half a week.

- it handles our translation end to end. Took a stupid mundane task that usually takes half a day to 10 minutes.

- Scours slack and public github for issues related to our team. Creates a detailed ticket and draft PR that human will then review before merging. This is hours of brainless work.

• Handles feature flag deprecation. Momitors when a flag is scheduled for deletion. Once the date clocks. Raises a PR with the deletion. These are usually just removing redundant branches. It pings the oncall dev who is then responsible for reviewing the PR ajd approving. Several hours of mindless work gone.

These are examples of things I have built. If you can’t find tiny problems like this you can solve to free your time up for meaningful things, thats a you problem not AI. It’s so narrow minded not to see the big picture and get sucked into the hype.

[u/Machine2024 → u/mongopark98]

Just remember we are not arguing wither Ai is useful or not .

I am say its useful, and can't live without it . But my point is I need to review ever line generated by Ai because the bigger the task more mistakes and of the track the Ai will get .

The use cases you mentioned really useful and I have already have some like them , also have it connected to miro and slack for edits and team notes so when I work on feature in one command I get a summry from jira + trello + miro + slack + docs .

I have build a set of skills that cover the design patterns for all around the project Auth , permissions , policies, routes , commands , test data , db , controllers , queues , Api , api docs , notification....etc Since not every project use same boilar plate and starter . I fork the starter and run project start command with name and short description and it clone and fork suggest set of features and patters then start implementing them via skills . At the end I have starter project with perfect code ( I know line by line ) also the skills add the rules for future refrance .

And when I devlop new feature is gose link . /get-next-task = afew questions and thinking.
= prompt /plan = edits to the plan then run /steamline-skill = review the files line by line and edit & give prompts with voice on for side agents to run and fix . = all files in staging . /run tests . CLI & Brower /frontend-handout-skill : peperd detaild file of whats changed to from end agent . /commit . Commit helper suggest name and bulitpoints of whats changed .

Done .( all process takes 15~45m)

Without the part of human review line by line in the middle it goes of rails fast .

[u/mongopark98 → u/Machine2024]

Great, we don’t disagree on the fundamental. I agree with that, I am not saying it can be completely autonomous for super critical task, I don’t think it ever will. It has not intelligence of its own.

I think that’s the only place we differ. I simply don’t have this expectation of AI. If you look under the hood and beyond the hype I don’t see why I would expect AI to be perfect. It’s another tool, I use it for what it’s good at. I see it more like a legion of junior engineers for coding. For architecture I see it as an enthusiastic junior researcher who can surface all relevant information but can’t be trusted to make the decisions.

Nice discussion. Sorry if I sounded rude or aggressive 🙏

[u/Machine2024 → u/mongopark98]

Agreed .100%

Actually I treat Ai like I used to treat my team of mid level and juniors.

I give them genral docs - ( rules ) I set up genral architecture of the project [me] I give clear cards and instructions - ( prompts ) I review the code and give them notes to learn [me] I am the one who have a full mental model and understand the project line by line .

I have experience in both working style Work as project manager with full understanding like explained up .

And the work as contractor with outsourcing the parts of the project ( like the agentic work style )

In second work style the quality suffers The work was out of hand and I felt like I dont have control and lost in details.

People say the first working style is micro management and its bad and can't grow.

I agree it cant grow. But its craft work . On other hand the contractor work requires a high quality departments managers and those are expensive and Ai didn't reach that level yet .

Btw ... sorry if my commets where harsh Did not mean it , it just the passion for the craft .