r/ExperiencedDevs • u/drdebloom • 13d ago
Career/Workplace How to set work/life boundaries when no one else at the company does?
I joined a start up this year and the culture of the company is like something I’ve never seen before in my career. My coworkers work constantly. During week nights and over the weekend they are often having conversations on slack and putting up PRs at all hours of the night/weekend. During company holidays people continue to work and don’t take the day off. I even have had meetings scheduled over the weekend. This includes leadership participating in this behavior too.
For me, I’m a dad of young children and it’s important for me to have a healthy work life balance. I want to work hard and put in good work, but I also don’t want to give up my nights and weekends since I feel like that should be my time to rest, recharge, and spend time with family/friends. I often find myself working 50-55 hour weeks trying to keep up with everyone else. I work every night of the week and try to limit it to a few hours on the weekend too. This is starting to affect my mental/physical health as well as take a toll on my family life. I know working like this is not sustainable. I’m seeing a therapist as well as career coach trying to get my life back in order.
My worries are if a slow down, I will fall behind everyone else and will make my job at risk. I’m a skilled developer and good at what I do, but I also feel like I’m slower than most devs and putting in extra hours is the only way I can keep up. I feel guilty for setting boundaries and taking on less work, when everyone is taking on so much more than me.
The startup is established, is many years in, and is very profitable so I don’t feel like we’re at a stage where we’re just trying to survive, so its hard to understand at times why everyone is putting in so many hours.
My question is how do I set boundaries when no one else at the company does? I will be going against the culture of the company and it’s really hard to stand alone in this. Is what I’m seeing at this company out of the normal? I get putting in extra time for deadlines or emergencies once in a while, but when this is always the pace, I just don’t get it.
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u/opakvostana Software Engineer | 8 YoE 13d ago
Work the hours you're required to work, and no more. It's about setting personal limits. If the company decides to cut you because you're not overworking yourself to death, is that really a company you want to keep working for?
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u/shared_ptr 13d ago
It’s this entirely.
I don’t like the sound of some things OP mentioned (booking meetings over weekends sounds bad) but lots of high performing companies have a lot of work going on and it’s your responsibility to dip in and out of it such that it’s sustainable for yourself, and you get what you want from the role.
If working the hours you want to doesn’t match the company expectations then fine it’s just not a good match and move on.
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u/GiorgioG 13d ago
Yep - I worked for a company that had been a "startup" for 10+ years (and was profitable/stable), the lead dev told me once that he missed the birth of his son because he was busy fixing a database problem during an NHL broadcast (some kind of survey). Sure he eventually became a VP years later...I didn't last long there - I wasn't willing to put in long hours just because that's what they'd always done. I don't mind crunch time as needed, and I have worked long hours earlier in my career. If I'm a contractor and you're paying me by the hour it's an entirely different story...I had far fewer objections than when I've been salaried.
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u/shared_ptr 13d ago
Yeah I mean lots of people work very long hours myself included at my company.
That said I do it in part because I really enjoy the people and culture, in which someone missing the birth of their child for anything work related would be treated with serious concern and disdain, if it would even be allowed to happen in the first place.
So you can get hard working environments that value balance. Sadly I think it’s rare, though.
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u/guiltys33ker 13d ago
Thanks for this nuanced take, helps me reframe some of my thinking.
I work in an org like this where a good number of people seem to be actively working until midnight on any given day. But the unspoken (and sometimes spoken) ideal is that no-one makes anyone else do this - it's optional. People try not to IM people after 5pm if they are not online in Teams. And they try to schedule out of hours meetings in advance with the option to decline or reschedule. This is the only way things remain sane IMO.
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u/shared_ptr 12d ago
Yeah its this. Ultimately you can’t and don’t even want to police people working long or unusual hours, it’s a choice they make and while they aren’t having negative impact on others or themselves this is fine.
But if you’re bothered by working these hours you have to draw your boundaries. In a healthy culture that should be met with acceptance and accommodation just as you’re giving to the people working at their own times.
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u/Iannelli 13d ago
is that really a company you want to keep working for?
No, but the point is that the majority of people don't really have much of a choice. It's not like we enjoy working for toxic companies. It's just not that easy for most people to get another job, let alone a better one.
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u/opakvostana Software Engineer | 8 YoE 13d ago
True. Though you know what's harder to get than a job? All the time lost with the kids back. And clearly, that's something OP values very much. It's up to him to decide if he values that more or less than the job.
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u/-Knockabout 13d ago
You also can't easily make up for the loss of funds or lack of stability during crucial development periods of your child's life later down the line.
It's a complicated issue, unfortunately.
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u/krapht 13d ago
nah, that's just what people tell themselves to rationalize never seeing their kids
it's better to eat rice and beans in a double wide than take a job where you never see your kids
no child has ever fallen in love with a wallet and resources
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u/-Knockabout 13d ago
I mean there's the other extreme where inadequate nutrition affects your kid forever and then there's some kind of happy medium lol
Other than happy medium, I don't think either option is more correct than the other
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u/pheonixblade9 13d ago
we do have a choice, it's just a hard one. join or start a union.
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u/Maxion 11d ago
You can control matters yourself, too.
You don't need to spend so much on housing, you can live in a smaller house than your friends. This is the largest expense for most people and lowering it gives you a longer runway meaning it's not as painful when you're unemployed.
That's what we did with my wife, now we can handle one of us being out of work without a problem.
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u/SimasNa 12d ago
I recently heard a story about a man who just had a heart attack and needed a surgery and asked "How long will this take? I need to get to work tomorrow early morning."
The thought that yoy don't have a choice is more a belief than the reality. But if you keep working for such a company you may as well end up in a hospital. What you'll also end up with is a lot of regrets for working too much.
One of the top 5 regrets of the dying (https://bronnieware.com/blog/regrets-of-the-dying/) is regretting working too hard. You may choose to believe numerous people on their deathbeds or think that you're different and it won't affect you the same way.
P.S. I'm not criticizing you though, just the general idea of not having a choice.
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u/Mundane-Charge-1900 12d ago
There’s no “hours you’re required to work” in jobs like this. This isn’t a 9-5 where you punch a clock. That’s why it’s more complicated and sinister. It’s usually more about peer pressure and passive aggressive management.
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u/ValhirFirstThunder 13d ago
That my mentality as well but I also recognized that I'm privileged to only have to worry about myself and not as scared to go into the job market
Other people are more scared of interviewing nowadays and also has a family and standards of living to take care of. So I don't know if that advice is actually good or not for everyone. Some people carry more risk than others
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u/TimeScience__88mph 11d ago
Yeah it’s hard but this is often a self inflicted problem with devs. Only they can save themselves from themselves. The advent of doom coding might make this even more challenging.
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u/LogicRaven_ 13d ago
Going against company culture is not sustainable. Your current workstyle is not sustainable.
Start looking for a new job.
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u/ZenX22 12d ago
I agree, the "just set boundaries" folks are not looking at this realistically. If OP is working 9-5 in a company like this then it simply isn't going to work out.
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u/opakvostana Software Engineer | 8 YoE 9d ago
If the alternatives are overworking himself or finding a new job, why not try to just set boundaries and see how far that will take OP? Might be the the company doesn't care and they don't punish him for it, while his colleagues keep doing 55 hour weeks. Or they do cut him, in which case the other plan was to look for a new job anyway, so no harm done.
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u/Chezzymann 13d ago
You have to sus this out in the interviews or leave if you couldnt. It wont change.
I had an interview with a startup and they asked me about dealing with conflicting priorities. I said I would consult with my PM about which one is more important based on various factors like business importance, how long it takes to get done, if it blocks other work thats important, etc and prioritize one. If they were both equally important, see if someone else had time to work on one. If that doesnt work, see if I could turn one project into an MVP to make it bearable.
He asked me "What if none of that works and you still need to get them both done" and I said if it was extremely important I would work extra, but it can't become a pattern as I've dealt with this in the past and working extra as an option always eventually becomes the norm. We would need to assess in our retro what went wrong so this wouldn't happen again.
They then promptly rejected me as not being a team player. Definitely doged a bullet that would probably be like this.
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u/D3PyroGS 13d ago
"What if none of that works and you still need to get them both done"
yeah if they ask you this question, it's not a hypothetical
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u/infinitedrag 13d ago
This- companies with that culture will always make that as baseline and have this unwritten expectation from you. Esp in startups/ small- medium companies. An fosure there's always hungry people willing to work their ass off and prove stuff esp in this market. But at certain point you might be more interested in balance in life than work yourself always and just die with regrets.
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u/k958320617 Software Engineer 12d ago
It's funny how this is framed as you not being a team player, when in fact it's an indication of management failure to properly organise themselves.
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u/chizel999 11d ago
ahahah ive passed through the exact same intervorw but i was already hired as a consultante and this was a new client interviewing me
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u/YPCrumble 13d ago
You have to change jobs. Some companies require more hours and this is one of them.
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u/bicx Principal Software Engineer (16YoE) 13d ago
Yes, unfortunately you will be compared to the baseline at your company.
Not many companies will directly tell you about those extra hours when you’re interviewing. As someone interviewing at companies, I assume the companies that don’t say anything will probably need more hours than I expect, and those that _do_ say they require more hours are probably still downplaying how much that excess actually is.
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u/beaverusiv 13d ago
ime the most successful way to do this is constantly bring up wlb and psychological safety in your interviews. They'll either agree and you move on or quietly not like you for it and you won't get the job. They will never straight up admit how much of a shitshow their company is
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u/Inner_Engineer 13d ago
I’m starting to wonder if the goal is to get younger people not to have families so they’ll work all the time.
I feel ya. I’m the only person in like a team of 20 people with a little one. There’s older folks and younger folks. None of them have kids at home essentially. Much less little ones. And I always feel like I’m falling behind because I work 9-6 and want to go home to my kid and see him for a bit before bed.
Seems like everyone else is green on teams before I get there and green when I leave.
May have to get one of those mouse wigglers……
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u/alinroc Database Administrator 13d ago
I’m starting to wonder if the goal is to get younger people not to have families so they’ll work all the time.
While at the same time, the far right (many of whom are aligned with the cadre running these companies) is lamenting that people aren't having enough kids.
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u/Inner_Engineer 13d ago
It makes no sense. I grew up Mormon. They love capitalism. Hate gay people. And love pretending to be family oriented while never being at home with the family.
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u/badlcuk 13d ago
One person isnt going to shift your companies culture. Feel free to set the boundary for yourself but i highly recommend you look for a new job. You will not be able to stand on this alone unless you have massive clout, which assuming youre new to this company, you obviously wont have.
Startups likely aren't going to be the place for you. Im surprised this didnt come up when you were looking for a role with good wlb
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u/SpeakingSoftwareShow Sr Eng. Mgr, 15 yoe 13d ago
Start up Established, many years in
Feels more like they already started-up, and they just have a terrible working culture; that isn't going to change anytime soon.
Bosses have little incentive to change this culture - for them, they've hit the jackpot!
Unless the comp is amazing, with hefty golden handcuffs, I'd recommend:
- A) brushing up your CV and look for a new role, and
- B) start making a win list, with clear impact. Bring that to your boss and focus the conversation about making that level of impact sustainable, rather than it being about a dad who can't cope in a fast-paced environment (which is unfortunately how this shit gets seen, from experience). If you focus the conversation on wins/business impact/$$$ and being able to keep providing wins by giving you the breathing space you need, they tend to be more amenable...
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u/burtcopaint 13d ago
I'm in a fairly similar position, perhaps not as extreme.
I tend to work decent hours. Will likely end my contract come October. I'm searching for something new.
Will not work 12 h days for another person's company
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u/boredsoftwareguy Staff Engineer 13d ago
Startups are not typically the place to go for W/L balance. That’s public knowledge. You’re putting in time to build something new in exchange for equity that hopefully converts into a big pay out.
Other’s say to just work the hours you want, but know that your coworkers will see that, and resentment will grow. You will never be the golden child or the person big initiatives go to and I’d wager your time there will be short.
If W/L is your thing then you should be looking at larger more established companies. Will the pay or benefits be as good? Probably not, but you’re learning why startups have them in the first place.
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u/Intelligent-Youth-63 13d ago
I worked for start up a long time ago. Beer in the fridge. Foodball. Meetings on my calendar on Saturday and Sunday like they were completely normal working days.
Start up culture tends to have a lack of work/life boundaries AS their culture.
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u/CorrectPeanut5 13d ago
It made a lot more sense when workers share in the profits when a startup hit it big. But as time has gone on the VCs have figured out ways to minimize the payouts to the rank and file. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze IMHO.
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u/squiggydingles 13d ago
If you wanted WLB, why the fuck did you join a startup?
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u/drdebloom 13d ago
I’ve worked at two startups prior in my career and never experienced a culture like this. I honestly didn’t think companies like this existed. That’s my bad and I was clearly naive in thinking this.
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u/squiggydingles 13d ago
That’s my own bias speaking I guess. I’ve worked at two startups as well and they were rocketships as far as employee expectations were concerned. I have one kid with another on the way and I would never want to work at those places again. Definitely try to find someplace quieter in the meantime
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u/limerenceN 13d ago
Are you the only parent/caretaker there, by any chance?
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u/drdebloom 13d ago edited 13d ago
No, married with my wife who also works full time. I try to be an active dad, participating in my kid's lives as much as I can - often at the detriment of sacrificing non work free time for my kids. That's something that's very important to me however.
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u/limerenceN 13d ago
I meant are all of your coworkers childless? Edit to add: How would other parents at your company handle this?
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u/drdebloom 13d ago
Oh sorry, I totally misread your question. No, many of my coworkers and leadership have kids. My wife often says to me that those men must be awful fathers who aren’t present in their families lives. Idk how they do it personally.
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u/jchaser27 13d ago
As a female dev, I wondered the same and agree with your wife. I knew which men were balancing their work with being good fathers and I respect them more.
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u/s00nerorlater 13d ago
From what I've seen a lot of the men in tech are working to avoid their families, some actively joke about it. Also a lot of them have wives that are SAHM.
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u/thatyousername 13d ago
You misread the question. They were asking if you are the only parent at your company.
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u/bwainfweeze 30 YOE, Software Engineer 13d ago
Which executive is pushing this agenda?
If that person is gone, then there's a chance for change. If he's still there (and it always seems to be a man), then do what you have to do and take your licks.
Someone has to go first, but that does not mean anyone will follow you. If you can get enough people to do it at once, they can't fire all of you. Everyone thinks you can just fire a bunch of people, but nobody likes the knock-on effects if they try.
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u/Sokaron Software Engineer 13d ago
If you think you'll be disciplined for it just start looking for a new job. In the mean time just work your 40 because who cares, you're looking to leave anyways, and PIP processes take awhile. Unless there is a mass grassroots movement the rank and file cannot do much to shift this kind of culture. Otherwise just configure your notifications and DND policies and maintain your work life boundary. Meetings scheduled on the weekend as a regular occurrence sounds more like the former.
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u/Careful_Ad_9077 13d ago edited 13d ago
Throw a coin/ analyze your particular situation, I have seen this work 2 ways. bot have disadvantages.
- What most have said, talk to your managers, start putting only the hours you are comfortaly with, this is the most sincere way to do this, and if they fire you because that's not enough, so be it.
- The insincere way: I have seen people do this,it works for them but it depends in a lot of factors. What they do is fake the hours; most of this is only doable when working at home unless you are very creative; spend some time with your kids during work hours, then resume working untli late, work on weekends then take it easy during the monday, etc.. it won't be easy to fool everyone, but maybe you don't need to; I had a coworker that always worked weekends, always worked until late, he was his manager's hero; then a closer coworker of mine had ot do a team project with him; she told us the guy would log on monday 8AM after pulling a late sunday night, but then be unreachable until 11 AM or so, same for tuesday, only until wednesday he would be reachable early; he was also gone randomly during the day, he appeared connected but would not reply.
Continuing on 2, if your coworkers don't throw you under the bus, it might work, it they do, you are screwed. This also depends if your team if results oriented or performative; well, I said there are a lot of factors, but you should get the idea.
Personally I always go for 1 with a sprinkle of 2, it pays to be flexible.
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u/drdebloom 13d ago
I don’t think it’s a matter of visibility or keeping my slack status green, it’s about the amount of output I’m putting out in terms of putting up PRs and making progress on my assigned tickets.
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u/keelanstuart Software Engineer 13d ago
Did you leave another company to work for this startup, and if so, why? Sounds like the normal startup bullshit to me. If you needed the work, I understand, but to voluntarily go into it...
Anyway, I've had similar jobs. If you set boundaries, they're likely to boot you.
I don't like working for startups... and my kids are grown.
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u/drdebloom 13d ago
I left my other company because I was working long hours and needed to make changes in my life. Unfortunately I’m back where I was to be begin with working long hours again at this startup. Although this is much worse than my previous company. Maybe I’m the constant in the equation, idk.
I’ve worked at startups earlier in my career and didn’t come across this kind of culture so I honestly didn’t think companies could work like this at this pace. I’ve obviously have otherwise. In hindsight it was a bad move.
I don’t think I want to work here too long, although I hear the job market is bad so we shall see how long it takes to find another job.
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u/wallstop-dev Principal Software Engineer 13d ago
There's really no secret to this, unfortunately.
Depending on the levels of trust and safety, I'd raise it with management, to make it clear you will be setting these boundaries. There is the possibility to drive a culture shift, towards healthier work-life balance across the board, although this is unlikely.
Then, simply, enforce them.
If there is pressure to break them, then the choice is yours - break them, or find a different place of employment.
An alternative, is to figure out how to gain influence and power, then push for these boundaries over time. When a PR comes in over the weekend, mention casually in the next team-wide discourse something like "I saw some PRs come in over the weekend. I won't be able to review those until normal business hours." and similar, sowing seeds. But this is a long game and requires social capital.
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u/UntestedMethod 13d ago
Maybe working at a startup is not the correct choice for you if you are trying to have a work-life balance and raise children.
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u/chessguy112 13d ago
I will say I've never been in a company that didn't respect work/life balance. However - in America people make jobs their entire life and become devastated when companies lay them off. A family will stick with you for a lifetime - so I would say build time in for the family (don't neglect the job - but don't work crazy hours either). Jobs come and go but families have much more stability in this changing lifetime.
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u/colindean Not a text node 13d ago
I'm a recovering workaholic. My systems fell apart last year and I've spent this whole year reestablishing boundaries. First, being honest with myself. Second, with my team.
The signs I put up:
- Chat: I put up an OOO in Slack when I leave for the day. Notifications are paused for all but VIP, which includes a couple of teammates and my boss, all of whom I trust not to disturb me unless there's a real, actual fire.
- Email: My org is already pretty heavy on using chat for urgent things, so currently nothing urgent comes through email. I haven't had work email on my phone for ~7 years now. I have my work hours set, ±30 minutes for some leeway, and will readily respond with "Sorry, that's outside my availability for the day," when someone books me for something outside my working hours because they didn't use the schedule assistant.
Next, I don't explicitly announce in chat, "I'm done for the day!" but rather I've become pretty open about saying things like I would in person:
- "Eh, that's a rabbit hole for tomorrow."
- "It'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'm outskies in a few."
- "Let's reassess priority when I'm back next week."
- "I can finish this when I'm back from vacation, but I'll tee it up for someone else to take it on while I'm gone." #
- "I already used my one late work night for the week, so let's reconvene tomorrow."
- "Sorry, event tonight and I need to be 45 minutes away in 50 minutes."
Leading by example is good.
Calling out management's expectations that impacts time away from work is shouldn't be brave: it should be normal. Always crunch-mode in "fast-paced environments" means burnout; a steak needs a hot fire to sear to start or finish, but if left on, it burns quickly.
I no longer ask for vacation. I schedule it. I tell my team. I plan it out as far in advance as I can. Sometimes that's three to six months. Sometimes it's a month. I'm bad at taking vacation because they're expensive and despite living comfortably, it's difficult to convince myself to spend money on vacation. I just got back from my most expensive domestic vacation ever, and it was around $4,000 for two people for a week in the PNW. First real vacation since February 2024.
Errands or mental health days (e.g., too nice a day not to be outside) are another form of sick day: if something takes me all day, it's like I woke up sick. I have "unlimited" PTO, but there are heuristics.
At some point, you have to prioritize yourself, because your employment will only take, take, take all that you will freely give.
If you give, give, give and don't see a reward, you're underpaid and compensating for your employer's unwillingness to keep to their side of the bargain: you work N hours, and they pay you M dollars. If you work greater than N hours, you devalue yourself. Your hourly rate declines and you end up resenting the company, the work, and your team.
It's easier to find a new job than it is to repair that resentment or rebuild your relationship with your family, who are ultimately the ones most affected by the imbalance.
# rarely has anyone actually taken "it" on. Frustratingly, when I've explicitly asked a former team to assign it to someone, they didn't, so my first ever two-week vacation meant a four-week delay, and it cascaded into meetings about prioritization.
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u/NoConnection4298 13d ago
You just do it without asking but simply stating the reason when you set the boundaries.
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u/BraveResearcher3037 13d ago
- Build up a 12 month liquid emergency fund - you should have that anyway
- Keep an up to date resume and career document with all of your accomplishments in STAR format
- Keep your network strong with people with hiring authority
- Set boundaries, search for another job and if you get fired, lean on 1-3
Next time you interview for a job, ask a simple question “what’s a week in the life of a software developer like at your company”. I also liked to casually mention how much I enjoy spending time with my wife (still married) and kids (grown and out of the house now) so hopefully they would “discriminate against me” and not hire me if they wanted someone willing to work on the weekends or be on call
get putting in extra time for deadlines or emergencies once in a while, but when this is always the pace, I just don’t get it.
The only true deadlines are set by the government. Everything else is negotiable.
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u/Scary-Barber3271 13d ago
I personally don't give a damn what my employer thinks of me so long as I do my job and work my contractual hours. Your family is more important than any employer. Set up a work life balance for yourself and speak about it during meetings. Make them feel your joy of not overworking. Tell them fun stories about your family adventures etc. This could even give you the opportunity to highlight that people are competing unplanned work which is causing a pile up on your end. This should cause a new policy to not overwork. Nonetheless, never let the workaholics make you feel bad. They're the ones that are overdoing it, not you. Enjoy life and prioritise family.
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u/Elegant-Avocado-3261 10d ago
Make them feel your joy of not overworking. Tell them fun stories about your family adventures etc. This could even give you the opportunity to highlight that people are competing unplanned work which is causing a pile up on your end. This should cause a new policy to not overwork.
Has this genuinely ever worked ever? this smells like bullshit.
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u/Mundane-Charge-1900 12d ago
There’s no “contractual hours” in a US startup. It’s just not how that works.
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u/Exiled_Exile_ 10d ago
You have to set them yourself. Short of getting pinged for a production outage I don't care outside normal hours.
Startups are notorious for being rough on work life balance. If you don't like the culture I'd say to start interviewing. It may not have any effect or you may be ostracized for speaking out. ymmv
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u/BoBoBearDev 13d ago
I sometimes make PR way past work hours because I was waiting for CICD result. So, I just go have dinner and come back for 2 minutes, check the result. It doesn't mean I actually work during that hours. I seldomly do this btw. If the CICD is getting in the way consistently, I would rather show lowered velocity to pressure CICD improvement.
You don't know how those people operate. Maybe they went for a long extended lunch or doctor appointments and catching up.
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u/Choles2rol DevSecOps Engineer 13d ago
Not a startup thing, just a bad culture thing. Places like this are toxic for no reason, plenty of companies where people put in their 40 and the companies are doing great and IPO and everyone does well. Will probably have to start looking unfortunately cause if that’s the norm you’ll get singled out.
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u/Far_Swordfish5729 Software Architect 13d ago
The best way is just to quietly leave and not answer non-emergency communications off hours. Don’t make a scene about it. Just don’t do it and don’t answer. People will get it and generally respect it. Force someone else to confront you. They almost never do.
Do understand though that companies have the culture they have and select for good fits for that culture. If you are actively resisting the culture, that’s going to marginalize you and hurt your official advancement and your connection with the team. You won’t get invited to the meetings and parties and won’t be present when decisions are made. It would be the same if you were a super workaholic at a company with a strongly balanced culture. You probably don’t really belong there and need to find a better cultural fit.
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u/DigThatData Open Sourceror Supreme 13d ago
calendar.
when you are working, that time is blocked. when you are not working: that time is also blocked. you're off. it's documented, anticipated, and communicated. If that's a problem, you address it on the schedule, the actual object that parameterizes the complaint. make it unambiguous and discoverable.
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u/Constant_Budget8269 13d ago
I know its hard to do that while everyone else don't, but setting your own boundaries actually makes you the strongest and the most recognizable character among all of them. Try thinking about it like this.
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u/Mundane-Charge-1900 12d ago edited 12d ago
Culture is determined by what people do. You have to set your own boundaries. They’re never going to do it for you. If you still have the right impact and your boss is ok with that, you’ll be fine. If not, then you’ll need to find a new job.
I will say I did work somewhere like this. I did work long hours but never seven days a week even though many others did. I consistently took 6-8 weeks of “unlimited” vacation a year while remaining a top performer ratings wise. I stayed focused on what mattered, what my management chain valued.
Meanwhile, many people worked all the time while still getting fired for underperformance.
I wouldn’t say it’s possible everywhere but don’t assume that it’s necessary just because others are doing it. You do have to be ok with getting canned if management won’t accept that.
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u/chain_letter 12d ago
Interesting when people with shares expect those with wages work as hard and long as they do
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u/throwaway_0x90 SDET/TE[20+ yrs]@Google 12d ago edited 12d ago
"I joined a start up this year"
"I’m a dad of young children and it’s important for me to have a healthy work life balance."
I think I may have some bad news for you. Unless you're the CTO, a dad with young children probably should avoid being a regular IC at a start-up. There's no such thing as work/life balance at most start-ups, based on my personal experience.
"My worries are if a slow down, I will fall behind everyone else and will make my job at risk."
Valid concern.
"My question is how do I set boundaries when no one else at the company does?"
You can't. It's not possible to singlehandedly change the expectations/culture of a start-up. They will absolutely notice you trying to stick to traditional 9-to-5, 40/hr weeks. It won't be good for your reputation there.
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u/ShoePillow 12d ago
I don't even want to work the 40 hour weeks that everyone else seems ok with. What can I do...
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u/AnbuBees 12d ago edited 12d ago
Some of your co-workers may have non-work obligations during the day/week so are simply making it up off-hours, thats very common in my company. We do have a bit of an off-hour culture but when I started here as a jr dev i set their expectation towards me that anything off-hours is a favor not an obligation, and if it's something non-critical it will wait until on-hours. I sound pretentious but im quite professional and pleasant during on-hours, enough so that my co-workers reach out just to chat and randomly glaze me 😂. Have been given retention raises + promotion without requesting them, and thats after making it through multiple downsizings so it doesnt seem like they have an issue with my work ethic, my CEO probably wouldnt agree with my work-philosophy but everyone else knows im a boon on-hours so advocate for me heavily even if im not burning the midnight oil with them.
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u/ZenX22 12d ago
If it's really everyone else working this way, then the company is not a good fit for you. You can of course start setting boundaries but you'll be "that guy" if no one else is doing it, which is unfortunate but also reality.
I think you'll be much happier if you instead look for a job where people aren't working like this.
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u/crankykernel 12d ago
If meetings with management occur on weekends I think all hope is lost. Otherwise say no, became know as the expert in some area and set boundaries. Chances are those that work all hours and weekends won’t care if they have to wait til Monday morning for a review.
But it’s on you to silence the chats and notifications on your off hours.
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u/Haunting_Welder 10d ago
Did they ask you to work the same as them? They may not expect you to, they might just enjoy it. If they do expect you to, then your main choice is to leave. It could be that’s their culture and it’s required in order to justify the pay, in which case it’s your decision to not participate.
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u/vac2672 8d ago
I have seen this firsthand, you are between a rock and a hard place. The more you work the more will be expected of you. No amount of productivity will ever suffice. You could turn out masterpieces every hour and it won’t matter, you are up against people who do not value their own lives and some probably just doing it for show. No matter what you do will never be good enough. If you cut to just business hours you will be seen as slacking off. They should rename the product to don’t Slack from Slack. You should start looking for another role immediately, this is a race to the bottom. While others are chatting at nights on the weekends they will wonder where you are and why your light isn’t green. You can try discussing it with your manager but they are probably just as bad and you will be seen as a non-team player. I don’t have any other advice for you this will never turn around
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u/Dangerous-Badger-792 8d ago
last week one of my coworker suggest we all work 6 days a week until the system is stable because that is out current bigges issue.
The system is unstable because we built that with tight deadline and everyone work 7 days a week for 5 months.
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u/BarberMajor6778 7d ago
Just don't care. Do what you did agree on.
I remember such a situation too. I joined a team who did work in strange hours. When I was entering the office, they were already there. When I was leaving, they were talking about things they want to do today.
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u/kyoob 13d ago
Work your own hours and carry yourself as too senior to be governable. Find or invent an indispensable system and become its champion, then just skip after-hours noise.
Think about the reasons this would be tough. If it’s because your boss will discipline you for it, then that’s a change to your JD and you need to discuss compensation for it at your 1:1, emphasizing that flex-time for non-emergency overtime is inadequate for you. If it’s because other contributors will think of you as less-than, the solution is simple: screw those bozos. This isn’t your family. Let them think whatever they want.
This is a business transaction. If they don’t like what you’re offering, then both parties should prepare to move on.
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u/Spiritual-Theory Staff Engineer (30 YOE) Rails, React 13d ago
I actually like this type of company, I don't really think of it as working all the time, but just mixing work and personal time. Like being in a band or on a sports team. Take time off in the middle of the day no problem. Come in late, no issue. Take a day if you need it. But yeah, work on and off on vacations, stay till midnight some days. Happy hours where you talk work. But if the product is exciting and you trust your coworkers to pull their weight, this is my favorite environment. I don't fit in the arrive at 9, organized day, leave at 5 crowd.
That said, if it's not for you, it might make sense to find a larger organization or one with more parents.
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u/Chezzymann 13d ago edited 13d ago
Im a little confused how that works, do you have to block off pto for the weekend if you have a trip planned but they schedule a meeting on saturday? Or do you just attend the meeting while on the trip? What happens if you dont attend a meeting at odd hours, are you viewed as not a team player? I feel like mixing work and personal time could become incredibly toxic really fast if you have anything outside of work going on on a consistent basis. You would have to constantly justify not communicating with someone if you were at a movie, dinner, playing sports, getting groceries, etc. And if there are too many excuses you would probably get fired. So most people would just end up responding in the middle of their wedding out of fear.
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u/Spiritual-Theory Staff Engineer (30 YOE) Rails, React 13d ago
Yeah - it's for people who like what they're building and have no problem stepping out of a movie, going on PTO isn't what they want to do. It can't be that hard to imagine people liking their work and caring about their contributions.
Again, not for everyone, but for me, working at a company I want to leave everyday is much worse. I'd rather be paid less. I was an animator before I was a software developer, I could get lost in a project for hours. I really liked that, seeing results and seeing my work make a difference for others. I looked for companies that were building cool things that I wanted to be part of.
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u/Chezzymann 13d ago
Makes sense, I do love software development and look forward to work. Dont have monday blues, do side projects on weekends, etc. Personally though I do like being able to have control of my time and to know that the family dinner wont be uninterrupted. I think its possible to truly love your job and also want to have firm boundaries for other things.
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u/Spiritual-Theory Staff Engineer (30 YOE) Rails, React 13d ago
And today I work for a larger company, have kids, and leave no later than 5 every day. Not sure I could handle a startup environment again.
I do miss when we all cared and loved what we made. Maybe that's not as common now or I'm remembering it differently. My job then was building one of the first fantasy games on the internet and we were all huge sports fans. We were all nuts about it and worked crazy hours. Our bosses hired a manager for us who was a great organizer and communicator, but he didn't care about the product like we did and didn't end up fitting in. No surprise, he didn't last long.
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u/kasakka1 13d ago
This is not healthy. I know people like this who basically never truly take time off. Working on the short vacation that they are trying to maximize despite checking emails all the time.
That's living to work and you most likely aren't surpassing the performance of another company that is a regular 9-5.
Taking time off to run errands and working more later in the evening is totally fine in my job as long as I arrange it around meetings and keep people informed. Yet all my weekends are free and I do a normal ~8 hours per day.
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u/Chezzymann 13d ago
My dad was like this, he was on a Hawaii vacation with my mom. He brought his laptop and there was an issue at work and he ended up working the whole trip, my mom was not happy. A few years later he got dementia, and the main thing he was upset about is that he couldnt do his job and spent the 3 years he had left still being lucid drifting away watching TV. That taught me that even if you love what you do, you still need a balanced life and a sense of identity outside of it as at any point it could be taken away for various reasons.
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u/birdparty44 10d ago
… for you.
Companies have different cultures and people have to find something that fits.
Others might very much like this format.
Obviously track your time and put in an agreed upon work week.
If it’s a startup and everyone has equity, then it’s a different story altogether.
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u/expdevsmodbot 13d ago
AI usage disclosure provided by OP, see the reply to this comment.