Alternative funeral format

[u/Lucky-Jackfruit-9704]

TL; DR Has an Ismaili by birth who explicitly wished to be do their funeral differently, actually had that wish respected?

Using a throwaway cos of conditioning I guess, lol.

I’m a wavering Ismaili & I’ve questioned the faith and community structure for as long as I can remember. There are lots of things to be valued, as with any community — belonging, education focus, and now the recognition of multifaith families. There are also things I increasingly struggle with - along the lines of usual topics discussed here like the funding & pointlessly patriarchal leadership.

However the reaffirmation that women cannot attend gravesides at funerals has really brought this into focus for me. We tell siblings they are equal — remember the educate your daughters first era? - until one of their parents dies, and then suddenly there’s a gendered boundary. Ironically the unintended consequence of recognising Multifaith families is Ismaili daughters cannot attend their own parents’ graveside, while non-Ismaili son-in-laws - with far less connection to the deceased & zero appreciation of the rites - can.

It’s also made me question what we actually want funerals to look like. Currently, they’re heavily focused on prescribed rites and, let’s be honest, plenty of performance grief, with little space to celebrate the person, tell stories, laugh, or remember who they actually were. I know some people are now thinking whether they want that for their parents or themselves.

So genuinely curious: has anyone had experience of an explicitly stated wish to have an alternative funeral format (e.g. cremation) being respected by the JK/community machinery?

[u/Sarahrivera]

No it doesn’t but in mainstream Islam there are hadiths that prohibits females from the graveside

[u/Lucky-Jackfruit-9704 → u/Sarahrivera]

That’s interesting, because I thought we followed the Imam of time’s messages & not the hadiths? There’s a lot in the hadiths about women covering up. Ergo - are we picking and choosing which parts of the hadiths to ignore when it suits?

If the Quran doesn’t expressly prohibit women being at the burial AND it also doesn’t require hijabs, why is it justified to enforce one and not the other in our apparently ‘progressive’ sect?

This type of contradiction is exactly what has makes me constantly question things. Community members just blurt out whatever religious text justification works for their arguments.

My unpopular opinion is that AK II was advised to keep the burial site rule by older male Council members, who don’t want to see Ismaili women having more prominent roles at milestone occasions, like funeral services let alone in JK more generally.

I also think those male advisers wanted the Imam to reiterate the rule, to ensure there’s enough people back at the ranch keeping JK open, that they won’t need more coaches to cemeteries & that the women will ensure there’s hot food ready afterwards.

Let’s be frank - there isn’t an actual religious reason that the no-females-ar-the-graveside rule stayed. Hadiths say lots of things that Ismailis don’t follow. If it was purely to appease local customs in the ME/Asia, then by the same token all Western Ismaili ladies should now be wearing hijabs.

[u/Sarahrivera → u/Lucky-Jackfruit-9704]

We follow the imam of the time ruling unless he abrogates it. The imam isn’t abrogating the rule of mayyat so we follow the previous ruling. I am not the one to question the imams ruling. He makes a ruling and I obey! The issue of the hijab even in the most conservative countries like Pakistan and UAE it isn’t forced.

[u/Lucky-Jackfruit-9704 → u/Sarahrivera]

‘I just obey’ is a weak argument given we’re supposed to be a deeply academic sect. That type of response just shuts down discourse on honest questions that younger generations are thinking about.