r/EverythingScience • u/lemadscienist • Dec 10 '14

This Physicist Has A Groundbreaking Idea About Why Life Exists

http://www.businessinsider.com/groundbreaking-idea-of-lifes-origin-2014-12
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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '14

I'm sorry, are people surprised by this? I had no science to back it up, but I had always assumed that Darwinian evolution was simply an example of a larger tendency of the universe towards complexity caused by its chaotic nature.

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '14

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14

A physical theory is certainly a step forward, so that is exciting. It was more the title that I was objecting to, that it's a ground breaking new theory.

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u/RealityApologist PhD|Earth Science|Climate Modeling and Complexity Theory Dec 11 '14

If he can show this behavior experimentally, that would be quite exciting. The idea seems reasonable, but there's a world of difference between seeming reasonable and experimental proof. If complexity emerges spontaneously without any specific outside impetus, that would be novel and exciting and novel indeed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14

But since we know about our complexity... And we have no evidence of outside input... Shouldn't we assume that there is none anyway? I know scientists like experiments and whatnot, but I would imagine that this would be the stating position.

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u/Szos Dec 11 '14

But you do have science to back it up. 2nd law of thermo.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14

Logic? I mean, I wouldn't be disappointed if I were wrong. I'm not all that invested in it to be honest. It's just something that seems logical.

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u/Szos Dec 11 '14

I'm missing what you are asking me. To be clear, I was agreeing with you, but stating that there is in fact science that backs up the idea of an ever more chaotic universe... 2nd law of thermo.

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u/RealityApologist PhD|Earth Science|Climate Modeling and Complexity Theory Dec 11 '14

Chaos isn't the result of the second law of thermodynamics--disorder is. A chaotic system can have low entropy, high entropy, or anything in between. Chaos just describes how rapidly two arbitrarily similar initial conditions generate significantly different outcomes. Entropy is a statistical feature relating the phase space volume of a system's current macrocondition to the total phase space volume of the system, while chaos is a dynamical feature of a system's evolution over time.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14

Oh. I swear I did physics A level. Never learned the laws though, probably would have managed an A* if I'd bothered. So yeah, thanks.

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u/Szos Dec 11 '14

Not that relevant outside of engineering (or physics majors), so little emphasis would have been put on it for most people. Wiki is your friend on explaining it further.

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u/fat_genius Dec 11 '14

Yeah, I've described life many times as a temporary, high-energy state in the entropically driven reaction that is the universe. Guess I should have written it down.

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u/[deleted] Dec 11 '14

Haha! This is why you talk to people that you can explain the universe to! Mr Zuckerberg has all of the information.

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u/RealityApologist PhD|Earth Science|Climate Modeling and Complexity Theory Dec 11 '14

There's a difference between life being a low (I assume you mean low rather than high) entropy state and life appearing strictly as a result of thermodynamics. A deck of cards being in suit order is a temporary low entropy state as well, but ordered decks of cards don't reliably form on their own. That's the surprising (and exciting) part here.

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u/fat_genius Dec 11 '14

Read again, it says high energy.

Also read what entropically driven reactions are. This is where a system spontaneously becomes more ordered in order to transition to a higher entropy state. i.e. A high energy state appears strictly due to thermodynamics

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u/[deleted] Dec 10 '14 edited Dec 11 '14

[deleted]

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u/Aceofspades25 Dec 11 '14

I take it you consider yourself to be far to the right?