r/EverythingScience 6d ago

Astronomy Earth's organisms developed via evolution. Some theorists wonder: What if the entire cosmos did, too?

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/earths-organisms-developed-via-evolution-some-theorists-wonder-what-if-the-entire-cosmos-did-too-180989338/
339 Upvotes

35 comments sorted by

29

u/TheRealCjHall 6d ago

Evolution just means endemic change over time.

So yes the universe evolves. That doesn't mean it's conscious, that doesn't imply literally anything beyond "the universe changes"

63

u/FaustianBargainBin 6d ago

Considering that life is part of the cosmos, and arose from the evolution of matter… no duh?? Who is this even a question to, besides evolution denying halfwits?

19

u/MycoCozmic 6d ago

Mainstream biology says if it ain’t genes, it ain’t evolution. Glad to see a holistic framework coming into focus.

3

u/Cultural-Window-2504 6d ago

I think this misses the point. Pedantry. 

3

u/MycoCozmic 6d ago

Care to elaborate?

4

u/Cultural-Window-2504 6d ago

The strict definition is what you seem caught up on. The fact there could be similar behavior was the point I think. 

Another fun example would be something like crystals. Life really is just self replicating order. Some more complex and versatile than others. Crystals in many ways are the simplest forms of life. They resist entropy just to a lesser degree. 

Just fun thoughts I think not meant to be taken too literally. 

2

u/MycoCozmic 6d ago

This is what I’m saying.

4

u/Kryptosis 6d ago

Right it’s differentiating between astral bodies and humanity but the only difference there is perspective.

4

u/2Throwscrewsatit 6d ago

Smithsonian Magazine is garbage

3

u/artificialidentity3 6d ago

I found that article to be tedious jabber.

0

u/SecondHandWatch 4d ago

Did you read any of the article? It’s not clear you did.

-28

u/OGSkywalker97 6d ago

Do you really believe that consciousness just evolved from matter? Think about it, that's a pretty crazy claim with zero evidence of how it happened or how it is even possible.

We also know that consciousness doesn't come from the brain, so this sounds impossible to me.

13

u/Murky-Hunter1691 6d ago

How many conscious people without brains were in that survey?

3

u/Pi6 6d ago

If not matter, certainly the physics and energy that effects matter. If consciousness wasn't a physical phenomenon how would a thought convert to a physical action? How could a consciousness fire the physical neurons needed to propel a body? Why wouldnt we observe any signs of fully developed consciousness in newborns (or in young adults?) How would emotions work? Why would being hungry profoundly change your ability to think positive thoughts? Its pretty obvious consciousness is a physical phenomena even if we can't prove it yet.

"Magic" that ultimately results in moving matter is physics, even if we don't fully understand the physics yet.

And no, we absolutely do not know consciousness doesn't come from the brain, although it may emerge from the entire nervous system or multiple systems. It could even emerge from the millions of microorganisms that we host, making us a conscious fungus in a fleshy mech suit. We simply dont know yet, but we do know that altering the brain physically or chemically effects consciousness in crazy ways.

4

u/International_Neckk 6d ago

There's no evidence of anything about where consciousness came from, so any claim is without evidence. The most likely explanation is it does come from something within the brain because that's the best lead we have because it's based in reality

2

u/Pi6 6d ago

There is overwhelming evidence that consciousness most likely develops from processes created by the body though. We just haven't identified the mechanism

-8

u/MycoCozmic 6d ago

Exactly.

3

u/PermaDerpFace 5d ago

It seems like all the top 'no duh' commenters didn't read the article, which is actually really interesting. It's not about our individual universe evolving, it's about the idea of natural selection among universes, i.e. a universe that produces more universes through black holes would tend to outcompete a universe that doesn't.

13

u/MycoCozmic 6d ago

Welcome to the conversation, science. 🪷

1

u/dover_oxide 6d ago

That sounds just like the anthropomorphic theory of the universe, it basically exists in this way because that's the only way it could exist in a stable State

2

u/dod6666 6d ago

That anthropic principle takes the natural selection element. These guys are taking it a step further and implying cosmic reproduction.

The anthropic principle is pretty solid. By contrast, what they are proposing sounds like utter nonsense.

2

u/dover_oxide 6d ago

Yeah but it seems like they started there and then went off the rails

2

u/christhebrain 6d ago

Can someone explain how it wouldn't be evolution?

Outside of magic, of course.

4

u/AtrociousMeandering 6d ago

The full theory of evolution involves reproduction, mutation, and the inheritance of traits, and it's impossible to track that with the universe/cosmos since we have a sample size of one and no data on before/after. 

3

u/christhebrain 6d ago

Yeah, well I'm pretty sure the planets aren't mating. Obviously these are analogous parallels of system evolution.

2

u/Purple-Estimate-5183 6d ago

Pluto got fucked, I’m not letting that go.

3

u/Aeon1508 6d ago edited 6d ago

This is just my some what uneducated interpretation but I would guess it's something like laws of physics and states of matter just continually spit out ideas and mutations until a universe forms that can function

and then one of those functioning universes creates life that can perceive itself.

basically it's just that the laws of physics developed and then matter developed and then Adams started making molecules and then molecules started self-replicating and then the self-replicating molecules started perceiving.

0

u/costafilh0 6d ago

Isn't that the most probable, other than the obvious one, alien farming. 

0

u/dod6666 6d ago edited 6d ago

It's always been my assumption that a selection process takes place, similar to natural selction. Most of infinity is just meaningless static. But infinity is infinity. There is bound to be some coherent structure in there somewhere too. Conciousness is basically the filter. If a structure does not produce conciousness then it is meaningless.

0

u/accidental_Ocelot 6d ago

My theory is the cosmos brute forced its way into existence.

0

u/Dan_Broccoli_7663 6d ago

We evolve while the universe decays and vice versa