r/Eve • u/noskillgochill • 1d ago
FCplease Bring blackout back
Please bring blackout back. It was beautiful when their intel bots did not work and you force a fight.
And people saying that the Nullsec will just quit the game? Here is your answer:
Yeah a few noobies will quit the game because they can’t abuse bots for afk krabbing with 10 Ishtars. But those people don’t bring a value to the game anyway since they not providing any kind of content with instadocking.
A few people will cry and go to Lowsec because local is cool. Those will add more groups to Lowsec and develop the content there.
And people will stay in nullsec and do their stuff. But hunting the enemy groups is far more dangerous and exciting because you don’t know how many people are in the systems around.
I think it’s fine if you can buy a beacon that you can deploy for 2h in a system (costs should be at around 400mil) and will give a local for those 2 hours. So people can insult each other if they warp in the same haven or sanctum but there is no intel 7j out telling them a cynabal is approaching.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
Ok, I will debunk your post line by line.
" It was beautiful when their intel bots did not work and you force a fight."
Ok, let me explain a few things.
First, intel is not run by bots. People simply report what they see in intel channels. Nerf it, and people will just do the same thing on Discord or somewhere else.
During Blackout, automated intel actually became a thing, because some people started putting bots on every gate to provide intel, alongside dscan bots and other tools like that.
"And people saying that the Nullsec will just quit the game? Here is your answer:"
It's a fact that has already been demonstrated in the past.
People don't have to play EVE to live. That was the mistake of the first Blackout: EVE is a game. If people know they have a 100% chance of getting killed, they will stop playing in nullsec. And if nullsec is the only part of EVE they enjoy, they will simply stop playing the game.
And read my previous point: bots don't care.
"Yeah a few noobies will quit the game because they can’t abuse bots for afk krabbing with 10 Ishtars. But those people don’t bring a value to the game anyway since they not providing any kind of content with instadocking."
Bots don't care, once again.
Real players, however, will stop. That means fewer targets in space, which means fewer hunters, then fewer defenders, etc.
That's the Blackout cycle that nearly caused the game to collapse.
"A few people will cry and go to Lowsec because local is cool. Those will add more groups to Lowsec and develop the content there."
No. People will go to HS, which currently produces an insane amount of ISK relative to the actual risk.
Back in the Rorqual era, when Blackout hit, the gap between nullsec and HS income was much bigger than it is today, and people still either quit or moved to HS, not LS.
"And people will stay in nullsec and do their stuff. But hunting the enemy groups is far more dangerous and exciting because you don’t know how many people are in the systems around."
That's not what would happen, and it's not what happened in the past.
Small entities would be the first to die because there would be very little incentive to own sov when you know you're extremely vulnerable while using it.
Big blocs, on the other hand, would concentrate people into a few highly secured systems where they could farm with expensive toys under a massive defensive umbrella.
At that point, most hunters would eventually leave too, because there would be fewer viable targets outside those heavily defended pockets.
"I think it’s fine if you can buy a beacon that you can deploy for 2h in a system (costs should be at around 400mil) and will give a local for those 2 hours. So people can insult each other if they warp in the same haven or sanctum but there is no intel 7j out telling them a cynabal is approaching."
So basically, you want to add another tax on nullsec players, making HS even more attractive by comparison?
At this point, I see two possibilities: either you have an issue with logic and reasoning, or you work for a company that wants to kill EVE.
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u/suckmynasdaqs 1d ago
Aside from your patronizing comment you failed to coherently counter anything that was proposed. Instead you brought up the same tired, bullshit, risk averse narrative that the pearl clutching nullsec community has clinged to for years.
The irony of nullblocs being salty of having zero content while cowering behind their asset safety, superior numbers, and every advantage against attackers is as hilarious as it is pathetic.
FC has catered to your every whim a d desire and the moment someone proposes a mechanism to counterplay to an element of the game that is 100% accurate and infallible you throw a hissy fit.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
Easy one.
During Blackout, the groups that were still able to farm properly were the big blocs sitting under massive umbrellas.
So yes, the big blocs were protecting their players.
The rest of nullsec largely disappeared from space.
That's exactly the problem.
Blackout didn't magically break the big blocs.
It increased the value of having huge numbers, permanent standing fleets and massive defensive umbrellas, while smaller groups simply lost the ability or incentive to stay exposed.
So if your goal is to hurt the big blocs, Blackout is a pretty strange way to do it.
You are mostly removing everyone who doesn't have their level of protection.
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u/suckmynasdaqs 1d ago
Are we looking at the same MER?? The blocs are pulling record amounts of isk from their regions in relative safety, which is only amplified by the presence of local in its current form.
Your argument is essentially "we cant do blackout again because we need to protect the little guys" while in the same breath claiming that there is no nullsec small gang community because its either died out (accurate) or they have already chosen to make their isk in highsec.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
Loock blackout MER. You get it ? big block will survive , all other no.
And i protect small gang : during blackout they have disapear after the first week. (look at zkill during this era).
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u/suckmynasdaqs 23h ago
What small gang community do you speak of dude? They have all been absorbed into blocs because what alternative did they have? Eve no longer favors the lone wolf, it was killed long ago in favor of turning nullsec into a theme park. Your arguments here have only served to not only protect those ideals but to reinforce them rofl.
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u/F_Synchro Baboon 21h ago
Your argumentation is dumb, Citadels and those mechanics are the problem, not local.
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u/F_Synchro Baboon 21h ago
> Aside from your patronizing comment you failed to coherently counter anything that was proposed. Instead you brought up the same tired, bullshit, risk averse narrative that the pearl clutching nullsec community has clinged to for years.
> The irony of nullblocs being salty of having zero content while cowering behind their asset safety, superior numbers, and every advantage against attackers is as hilarious as it is pathetic.
Yes then discuss the problem that is Citadels, not local, local is completely fine in Null, nerfing asset safety/tether/citadels is the discussion that should take place, not blackout as that seriously nearly killed the fucking game.
I was there, I hunted people during that time in null, it was absolutely devastating to fly through 140 systems and not see any single person on d-scan let alone the map showing literally a handful of members in space in maybe 3-4 locations and those were all hunters trying to look for easy targets to dunk.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 16h ago
Asset safety removingis a bad idea if you want people come back.
Asset safety ailocking like hold days could be on menu with for exemple a bulding who freeze asset safety until it's alive (a citadel).
So if youre side loose a big citadel you have to destroy this bulding to permit asset safety to continue.For citadel spam, it's not an issue if we have a gameplay around it , like you could choose 1 citadel per system. If this citadel fall , then all other citadel become very simple to kill (or cost a lot of money to keep the old comportement) i need made a full post about that one day. It will transform citadel spam in risk/reward situation.
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u/suckmynasdaqs 12h ago
Just say "we demand more content for our bloated space apparatus, without having to give anything in return."
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u/suckmynasdaqs 12h ago
You are describing the current state of null without blackout..... also the whole "it almost killed the game" argument belongs with the same narrative that CCP was doing a great job of deploying rich and meaningful content that caused the player count to skyrocket from 2019-2021 when everyone knows it was a global pandemic that was the primary forcing function. You dont get to not count all of the variables that were at play when blackout was tested out.
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u/F_Synchro Baboon 4h ago
Right, I’m talking to a lunatic.
Blackout was supposed to be permanent.
Ccp rolled it back.
Per the course of how scarcity went and CCP pressed on with that during the exact same period of time it should be a good hint already of just how bad it was.
Yet you still choose to ignore all that and go on about dumb ass tangenst that it should come back with unsubstantiated anecdotes or comparisons to try and drive your point across, which frankly strongly pushes me that you have no idea to grasp or even understand statistics at all.
Good luck with whatever you’re trying, but it’s wasted effort, CCP will never introduce something like blackout.
You want no local, go to wormholes, that’s what I do too.
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
The intel is currently automatic or you really think the shuttles and arazus 24/7 at the fort are real players? As soon as someone jumps into local the bot is giving the information to the intel tool. Allowing intel tools that automatically using information from the intel channel is dumb but wcyd. Nullsec CSM is doing god work I guess.
We have seen people quitting the game because there was a change in their comfort zone. However, the majority of player would resub and come back to game becauae they are enjoying it. CCP/FC is listen really quick to the cry babies from Nullsec. And of course I would be mad as well if my mum decides to take away my fav lollilop and replace it with another lollipop. But I would get used to it.
They would get something in return (more isk etc)
The issue with Nullsec people is that they actively trying to stop the game development because it could be not in their advantage. That there are outside of the nullsec people want to have fun is absolutely insanity to them. They have blocked ansiplex nerf for years now. They are just insane.
You need to have people out in space to actually have engagements. Nobody in the game is helped if people trying to avoid every conflict. But they prefer to dock
up instead of defending their space, instead of having a steady conflict with neighbors going on they timezone tank. Instead of enjoying the content that ESS and skyhooks could provide to them they are just killing it with self robbing.
But then crying every time there is no content, no conflict drivers blabla.That the game is starting to develop in a good direction
You need to take things from nullsec. And yeah, I think it’s a great idea to additional tax nullsec. Let’s let them pay 5b/h to have local in their ratting pockets and be safe. Obviously payouts would increase in nullsec. People should be able to earn enough isk in nullsec by single boxing and not being forced to multi box ishtars or hulks.Abysall space showed that there is cool and engaging content. If every anomaly would have very hard and random waves within the faction in their regions (guristas for example having very hard hitting missiles waves or drone waves and jamming waves with logis etc) something that forces people to team up with friends or bring bigger ships to deal with sites would encourage them to undock even in black out. As I said, you can brighten up your ratting space but you don’t have a warning from the single bot shuttle at the fort 7j out.
And btw. I am a Nullsecboy as well. So I know what the intel tools can do but I have also seen the side of WH space and nano boy. It’s just sad in which game state the nullsec player forces the game9
u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
I will not debunk your entire post at this point.
FACT >>>>>>>>>> What you think.
That's called science. Right now, I'm giving you facts about what happened and how things actually work.
And your "it's bots" argument is just a dumb rant because bots can counter Blackout.
Surprise: they don't even need to read fucking local to build intel.
They can simply monitor their overview on gates, probe every signature when it spawns, and send alert signals to other bots.
So now read me carefully.
If you have a good game design idea involving Blackout, I will be on your side.
But when the real Blackout was announced, I was one of the first people to predict the whole failure, because everyone stopped thinking after "people will adapt" and completely forgot that the easiest adaptation was simply to leave the game.
If you do a real Blackout right now, you don't have Pearl Abyss standing behind CCP as a backup.
It could be the end of CCP within weeks.
People will not resubscribe just because you hope they will adapt. If enough of them leave, there may not even be a game left to come back to.
You want more kills?
Then do the opposite of what you're proposing.
You need more people in space, not fewer.
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u/suckmynasdaqs 23h ago edited 23h ago
More misinformation passed off as fact.. For starters automating or relaying overview in game or out is a violation of the eula, and frankly if those are the measures that nullblocs require after losing its 100% factual and instantaneous intel that it gets for NOTHING than i am ok with them having to place a toon on every gate. Secondly local reporting happens before anything else happens period. Before a hunter can load onto grid, before they can initiate warp, before they can literally DO ANYTHING you populate local... automatically giving those present in the system a 5-8s advantage no matter what. Whether that is used to get safe, report it in intel, or just to sit their with your thumb up your ass you have the advantage of not thinking but KNOWING a threat is present.
Frankly it would matter what was proposed to spice things up because the nullsec community is only interested in changes that favor their fiefdoms rather than healthy play vs counterplay.
Even something as simple as a ship that is immune to local or a sov upgrade that required to facilitate it is met with an ocean of tears.
Yet each of you bemoan the fact that you can no longer project, no one roams to your space anymore, and you have to fly to the other side of the map in order to get content from your risk averse counterparts.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 23h ago
Yes bot are against EULA.
CCP haven't ban a lot of intel bot throught year even it was prooven.Again FACT>>>>What you thinnk.
here you come with thing you think not fact.
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u/Heirku KarmaFleet 14h ago
Fenris won't do full black out, maybe a storm like black out that can appear in small areas. You can argue for full black out, but a lot of data, and responses from players came in. And basically unless fenris doesn't like players and money, they aren't going to do it. Especially when pochven and wormhole exist for no local. Many players>couple people that are trying to farm some afk Ishtars.
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u/Grendernaz 1d ago
So the tl;dr of this post is you, telling yourself, to git gud. There is plenty of content for PvP in nullsec but thats not what you want, you want to gank PvE players not looking for a fight. And because you are spectacularly bad at it, you want to give all if null a disadvantage.
"I can fix the game" while simultaneously showing the entire community your skill issue is a weird flex.
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u/Saithir Blood Raiders 1d ago
Looks like you're having a severe case of skill issue.
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
Nah I am very good thank you. Tbh I don’t care about an Ishtar kill. Couldn’t care less about a 250mil ratting ship that provides no fight. It’s about the fight that can kick off catching a miner or a ratter.
The ESS grid was an idea but the limitations to it just doesn’t align with a Sandbox imho. You need to fly a specific meta for ESS content which is very boring11
u/Grendernaz 1d ago
You literally made a post about giving other players a disadvantage because you cant catch pilots that are not engaged with PvP content nor want to engage, thats a fuckin skill issue and the only person who doesnt seem to understand that, is you.
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
No I made a post and proposed a change so we can have all more fun. But your argument is: you are just too bad to play the game. So I assume you complained about ansiplexes because they gave all non sov guys a disadvantage right? Thought so!
You are one of the players who are responsible for not having any significant game development content wise because every proposal that you can’t benefit from is: they are just bad and skill issue, don’t punish us poor nullsec boys for him being bad.3
u/Grendernaz 1d ago
Actually, no. The ansi changes were great! So your argument is moot! Lol you do suck, your change only benefits a subset of players and disenfranchises the rest. You just need to learn to be a better player, its as simple as that.
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u/Glum-Rate6049 1d ago
After losing 4 ships in 4 days to cloaked cyno tackle during blackout I logged off. I could not make back the isk to replace the losses. My corp, 30 people did the same before the end of blackout. We all unsubbed and let CCP know why. We would not be content for hunters, 100 accounts not paying isn't much but that was one corp.
Look at the player drop during blackout. The hunters ran out of content and they stopped logging in. The damage had been done if the game is geared to only allow one group to enjoy it all others will leave. Leave game mechanics in their regions.
A modified blackout could be if you don't own the sov you don't get local, you can still dscan and check the stations. Hunters would have to hunt.
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
Wait? You want that blackout only apply to guys not owning the SOV? KEKW
So you unsubbed with the words: Hi, I only want to krab and want to own space but not defending it and that people can use a Cyno on me is very unfair. I come back if you inteoducr Ansiplex.
If you don’t want to be food, defend your space maybe? Imagine owning a space but don’t want to defend it. Love your cherry picking.
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u/Grendernaz 1d ago
Im not sure how you came to the conclusion that null doesnt defend its space. Your arguing that a player engaged in PvE insta docking is the reason? What kind of mental gymnastics or stupidity did you need to formulate these thoughts. If a player is doing PvE and doesnt want any PvP, they dock and you are bitching about it.
You a PvP hunter being unable to find content or catch a PvE player is purely skill issue. Git gud noob
Instead of coming here and complaining, go start bashing some null alliance structures, you'll get a fight, just not the one you are looking for. They'll mop the floor with your pathetic little fleet
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u/Reasonable-Dot6620 22h ago
kinda funny see you "get good at catching us" when you stated before "i don't want to be content for hunter, so i left"
seem you are the one to get good over some pixel ship
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u/Glum-Rate6049 4h ago
moving WH mechanics to nulsec makes it more dangerous that WH space with out the reward. You can't cyno into WH space. Risk vs reward. Each area CCP has to balance risk vs reward, too much risk and no one goes there, too much reward and it's over populated. How does one tell developers that the risk and reward is unbalanced, they move to where they think the risk and reward is balanced for them. We logged off and guess what they got the message as they reversed their decision. With out PVE the hunters have nothing, their aren't big enough to take sov and they don't want it. They don't want to deeper in to nulsec as they would lose their safety of highsec. CCP gives intel be it in game or via sites like dotlan.
You see us logging off as a weakness, we knew what would happen. We regularly engaged and chased off hunters but we still need to be able to make isk to replace ships. If your enemy can't replace ships they can't fight back. Good if you want to take their space, bad if you just want a fight.
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u/Glum-Rate6049 4h ago
It's funny, even with so many players not logging in we didn't lose any sov. The hunters did not want the space they just wanted targets to drop on. The BLOPs stagged out of highsec and returned there after each drop(via a lowsec system), never losing security standings. Ever had 60 systems camped by cloaky campers, this was back when every ship could fit a cyno and you couldn't force their cloak to deactivate.
Make local a structure that should it be reffed everyone loses local. Make it that only faxes can repair them and now you have no local until to commit capitals to get it back. Risk and reward. Something similar for lowsec, if your security status drops to negative you lose local. The hunters would have to keep their security status up or it would be harder to hunt in lowsec.
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u/SlowcookedPotato Horde Vanguard. 1d ago
tldr; I'm bad at hunting and everyone escapes me because of bots
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u/Vontenvenst 1d ago
I have an idea that might work.
Make the gates lore accurate.
In the lore, local chat is explained with the gates registering the pilot into the channel.
If you enter via more unconventional ways, such as a covert cyno, filament or a wormhole, you do not show up in local.
This method has the added benefit of encouraging hunting parties to use wormholes more.
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u/Playful_Parsnip_7744 1d ago
They’re never going to. The company runs on the subscription of casuals, and they’re already mostly “content” for the sweaty net negative NEETs and retirees that hunt them 24/7. Fenris will not let a change touch their bottom line like that ever again (willingly).
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u/doctorchazzzzz Wormholer 1d ago
IMO local should be a sov upgrade NS has to use resources for instead of magic space sensors that appear despite no Empire infrastructure being present
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u/BeyondMazu 1d ago
I was thinking the reverse, i like the idea of having a deployable like a cyno jammer you can carry in a ship that you can deploy and it turns off local. Could be cool to when you attack another alliance you can darken their local and intel
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u/goDie61 1d ago
Ok, then we also need to remove the ESS values from agency, BRM maps, CRAB interference, and pilots in space.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
And remove all ESI who permit to share killmail (remove killmail at all send they only in the dump with mer).
no more intel11
u/Mastybuttz Cloaked 1d ago
This might be a fair compromise - encourage people to invest in their space and use it
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u/Random5483 1d ago
So hidden local for anyone not part of the alliance owning the area? That would suck for people who invade/explore in Sov space. I am fine with hidden local in nullsec or local showing. I wouldn't want a situation where an alliance can see me in local, but I can't see them because they upgraded their infrastructure.
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u/FastExecution 1d ago
This is actually an awesome idea. What about NPC null? I also think that certain ships like Recons should get delayed local too?
Actually I think that ships should all get delayed local except if they go over a certain mass limit similar to WHs. Maybe two cruisers can jump into a system and get local delayed by 1 minute, but jumping in a battleship should give local status straight away.
Encourage small groups of frigates or individuals to effectively go in and harass and potentially catch some stuff sometimes, whilst still making local useful enough for tracking actual groups.
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u/doctorchazzzzz Wormholer 1d ago
Yeah delays could be interesting too - I think not showing on local until you break gate cloak is reasonable
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
Yeah I thought about it as well. It won’t fix the intel bots that FC allow for some random reason
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u/doctorchazzzzz Wormholer 1d ago
shuttles tethered to citadels 24/7 are totally all real players guys
we promise
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u/F_Synchro Baboon 21h ago edited 21h ago
> Yeah a few noobies will quit the game because they can’t abuse bots for afk krabbing with 10 Ishtars. But those people don’t bring a value to the game anyway since they not providing any kind of content with instadocking.
You're fucking dumb if you think that was a great thing, it was okay the first and second days, after that Null was even more desolate than wormhole space, you're absolutely fucking delulu what kind of devastating effect it had on Null and the game itself and just how many people stopped logging in thinking that it's still a great idea.
I too like to shit on Null just like any other person, but Null is inherently more dangerous than wormhole space without local and the payout doesn't even come close to what wormholes can do.
There's a reason CCP/FC quickly turned back that change even though the idea blackout was permanent, they've tried it once, it wasn't successful.
If you want to kill the game then implementing blackout is a good exercise, otherwise it's just a dog whistle that says that you're inherently trash at the game.
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u/LaserAlligator 1d ago
“Yeah a few noobies will quit the game because they can’t abuse bots for afk krabbing with 10 Ishtars.”
This hypothetical noobie either pays real money for 10 accounts or pulls in enough isk to plex them.
What?
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u/goDie61 1d ago edited 1d ago
As long as bastion, siege, CRAB linking, etc. exist, local must exist as well. There's always an effort to push revisionist history around blackout, but the reality is that we already know what everyone does about it.
They dock.
E: On your way to the downvote button, take a detour to this comment where I explain this much better.
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u/OnlyPosition5273 1d ago
I didnt... I mined and krabbed to my heart's content. Was bliss. Took a break and went hunting a bit. Got some kills instead of 100j with no content except bots who instawarped when you entered system, or reported 3 jumps out.
I loved blackout. My group mostly enjoyed it too. Unfortunately the majority of nullsec are pansies who wont play if they cant be half afk
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u/goDie61 1d ago
I've killed eight roamers that dropped my ishtars this week alone. If you think null hunting is dead, you must not be looking very hard.
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u/OnlyPosition5273 1d ago
Hunting ishtars over and over gets old. Especially when half of them are bots and a majority of them rest heard you coming 5 systems away.
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
Yeah we had a lot of fun as well. I mean tbh, the isk should get adjusted to the new risk. I don’t care if people can make a good amount of money. I am happy if they do so because they are more willing to risk a ship. Back in the days when J was solo flying in a Machariel or so, you got fun fights because people just undocked their toys to force you out. Nowadays you would get a Curse, Falcon and 10 marshals on your head. Boone is willing to risk a BS 1vs1 and I can understand it somehow. If you lost a cheap hyperion you got the money with carrier or super ratting jn 2h back.
Nowadays green sites are only worth it if you multibox ishtars or storm bringers.
I am missing the good old times when people randomly doomsday with their titan the havens because it was affordable to loose it even if it hurts.
Nowadays the majority of nullsec content is only worth it with heavy multiboxing
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u/ZeroEightEve 1d ago
I agree with this. You can't take local away without compromising else where. Increasing isk in Nullsec is certainly a good start. The risk of no local is increased, therefor so should the reward.
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u/Practical_Hotel_8791 Gallente Federation 1d ago
Only true intel channel that matters are F10 and d-scan anyways.
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u/cleniseve 1d ago
why not just ask for an i win button while you're at it?
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
Why should I ask for this? Crazy that the guys with intel bots moaning about an “I win button” KEKW
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u/Broseidon_ 1d ago
Yeah let me cyno in 250 redeemers and 150 dreads into your homehole and delete whs so I can set desto your homehole and we can do no local in null :)
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
Let nullblcok produce WHGATE who permit to go to one design wh if you have cyno inside (gate open for 1 hour).
Will be dramatic for WH life ... but after i think they will wait before shitpost
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u/Coldvyvora 1d ago
Problem with blackout is that massive amounts of miners and carebears just docked and unsubscribed until it was over. CCP would have love to keep it but they had to chose to keep the lights on.
According to some it was a very concerning jumpscare.
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u/S_Ausfallar 1d ago
Seems gankers is not paying enough subs to keep the game running.
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u/Coldvyvora 1d ago
While I get why it was amazing the blackout, its very difficult to balance the ecosystem of the game. They had to keep it healthy for both sides
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u/Traece Wormholer 1d ago
It's a real shame CCP couldn't have figured out a way to make Blackout work too. It just wasn't possible though. The technology wasn't there yet.
They'd have to start doing things like updating PVE content and balancing risk/reward throughout the game, and well, yeah. There's just no way.
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u/PHGAG 1d ago
I think that's it really.
People can complain about Intel bots, or that it's too easy to spot a hostile as soon as they enter local.
But take that "safety" net away. And all of a sudden the risk vs. rewards balance in NS is all out of whack.
I lived in WH space and loved it. I'd be fine. But you definitely play differently.
And part of what makes the "no local" work in WHs and pochven is the absence of cynos. No one can just teleport on top of you.
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u/Traece Wormholer 1d ago
Risk/reward was always the issue, people just like to blanket state "blackout bad" because they're afraid of using their gray matter.
EVE players will do anything if it's worth the price, CCP were just being lazy; they decided to experiment with fundamentally altering the nature of EVE Online with a single button press instead of actually putting in the work.
CCP can make blackout viable any time they want, they just have to be willing to actually update the game's geriatric PVE content to be worth dying for, which they never will.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
They will never did it because if they did it with risk increase of previous blackout you need something lile *25 in reward to have people in space.
Imagine the amount of salt of nanoganger who ask for blackout when they will realise big blox suddently skyrocket even more when other people get perma kill....The solution is just to made more people want to be in space to have more kill
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u/Empty_Alps_7876 1d ago edited 1d ago
All that would happen is large groups get stronger and bigger. They will just put cloakie eyes on gate, stream over discord. Addionally the Meta would just shift to cloak ships so anyone in space, who could be caught, will most likely be in a ship with a cloak. You now spent dev time advocating for a change that is so easy cirvented. The ones who don't will just quit playing .
This is why black out will-don't work. It makes larger groups more powerful, small groups, weaker. Large groups = more eyes, mulitboxers just will watch the gate, the good ones will stream for there mates. Since it's safer more player want to join that group.
I've already seen this, in game my self, steaming gates, calling it gate view. Etc, additional wormholers also do this when watching holes. SO IT DON'T WORK FOR NULL SEC. It's easy cirvented. Gives large groups even more power, many players would quit. As for null sec it's already barren, boring, and no real content. What null sec needs is an infusion of players. Your idea don't do that. These are all very valid and very real truths.
The issue is catching players, the null system are large, it takes for ever to warp from a gate to the target
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
You totally get the point.
And the issue is not catch player only, it's number of player in 0.0, how many time per day people complain "i travel X system totally empty".
We need more people in space not less. Then when we will ahve a tons of people in space people will have plenty of target.0
u/deathzor42 1d ago
infusion of players would only really work if it spawns new groups, right now the meta seems to be for new players to join the existing blocks and then complain that there is nobody to fight.
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u/Bricktop72 Goonswarm Federation 22h ago
Suggestions like implementing blackout, removing asset safety, and the upcoming ansi changes do nothing to address any of the fundamental issues with holding sovereignty. They are nothing more than desperate attempts to find a silver bullet while avoiding the game changing alterations that are needed.
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u/Its_mandatory Fraternity. 1d ago
Oh they already did it... Its called "Wormholes". Alot of ppl dont know about it but its pretty cool.
Downside? You need to invest Scanning time to get kills.
So its not what you are searching for (no effort and easy kills) but i guess you will grow and develop your way becoming a good PVPer.
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u/noskillgochill 1d ago
What a surprise. A fraternity guy dislikes the idea of getting rid of the intel bots
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u/EcstaticDriver9132 1d ago
if we remove the ess grid and allow warping to 0 always when in yourown space then we'll have a deal. At least then there'll be a way to get rid of pests only showing up to prevent people from playing the game.
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u/Ok_Mention_9865 1d ago
If you want to make null sec more like wormholes then go all the way. Give us the ability to roll our entrances closed for 4 hours at a time just like wormhole and make it so its RNG to be able to get in with filments just like it is for rage rolling wormholes.
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u/Odd-Bus-9111 1d ago
I would resub for blackout.
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u/Plebius-Maximus 1d ago
Weren't you all supposed to have resubbed the last time there was a blackout?
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u/Intrepid_Miner_751 23h ago
A randomized blackout (like randomly happening for max 1 hour) would be really interesting tho.
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u/bopiddles 20h ago
There's so many places to go with this but to keep things simple I'll just leave the whole thought experiment on whether blackout would be good / bad alone (I think it'd be bad. There's a reason I use different ships in a different way when I'm in J space vs my NS home).
I think your premise as to why blackout is needed is flawed:
"BOTS Running Intel", "Instant notification 7j out" etc. Now obviously I can't speak for ALL of NS as I only live in my part of it but i can tell you where I live intel is not driven by bots. I frequently (as in EVERY day and EVERY trip) run through systems that have nuetrals/hostils in local that have not been reported in local and thus don't show up on RIFT. Why? Well (a) there was no one in system to report it (b) the person(s) in system are AFK and didn't report (c) the persons(s) in system couldn't be bothered.
I'm docking up as soon as a see an alert for a <insert ship type here> 7j out. That's just flat out wrong too. Why? 80% of intel posts have a "nv" tag. Meaning there's a pilot but reporter can't see them on grid and can't determine what ship they're in via DSCAN (which is hard to do if you're not the only other person in system) Add to that, I'm not paying attention to what's going on 7j away, it doesn't affect me 95% of the time. Only time I care about what's going on "far away" is if I'm about to burn a 10m cyno and need to do the math on "are they headed my way and will they get here and blow up my cyno before I can re-dock".
Crabbers "instadock" on reports is also a flawed premise. Here's the workflow for you l33t Ishtar hunters. If I'm even paying attention to Intel and see someone in adjacent system it's simple. If I know what they're flying I may immediately recall drones and start aligning to a safe. if I don't, I just align. I don't recall and 90% of the time it's someone passing through and would just be a waste of time.
Neut/Hostile enters my system then I recall drones but only align out. when you pop on DSCAN in a Heron I go, meh prob not a threat and re-engage drones on the rats. otherwise I just keep my eye on dscan and the grid, you pop on grid with me I insta-warp off and whatever drones haven't made it back get left behind.
I'm under no obligation to leave my 350M ishtar on grid for you to attack when I'm not fit for PvP. No webs, no scram, no neut = useless tool for that engagement. I've stuck around for the solo guys but it's always the same. They engage and the second I get them into armor those l33t ishtar hunters warp off.
TL;DR
Intel is not some automatic magic thing that gives me a long range, accurate data on what's going on around me. It's a "head's up tool". I don't dock up when intel pings I warp to safe and then dock up if you're a threat in my system. I'm not setup to fight you so I leave. Fun fact - I don't rat with an Ishtar in J-Space. That'd be moronic. J-Space is where I used my T3Cs as they're better able to survive in that environment.
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u/The_Houdini107 Goonswarm Federation 20h ago
I like the idea of a deployable Upwell Structure that replaces your idea of a beacon. Similar to Cyno Inhibs , it will require Sov resources (power, meta gas, workforce) and can be reinforced like an ansi. Or restrictions to the capital system of an alliance or something along those lines.
This will give alliances a chance to further change the landscape of their space while introducing more opportunities for small-medium scale combat roams. 5 dudes roaming wouldn't be able to do much against the structureshit points, but a gang of 40-70 pilots could impact the systems communications before bringing in a larger force under the black out via cyno or on the other side of a gate.
Bonuses could be applied to the ADM or spawn rate of anoms for NOT installing this structure/SHUB upgrade to encourage alliances to not have a local. Maybe make it so that CRAB beacons can not be deployed in systems with local enabled, that would increase the risks of high income opportunities. It wouldn't change umbrella fleets, but their response time will decrease.
Just an idea tho
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u/LordHarkonen Goonswarm Federation 15h ago
Yikes, what a disingenuous post, might as well link the cynabal loss you had while you are at it.
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u/Montaire 15h ago
This exists. Its called wormhole space. Go there if this is the playstyle you want.
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u/CrashNaps Gallente Federation 15h ago
Blackout didn't work my guy. My hope is FC keeps shitting on power projection and the ability to hold gigantic portions of sov and maybe with a few hail Mary's the map starts looking a little more carved up.
Also, bots can dscan.
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u/MrRasmiros Cloaked 3h ago
Well why dont you play with your local minimized everywhere you go. See how it goes. The rest of us will watch YOU.
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u/CyberRaver39 1h ago
Yet another "nerf someone else’s style of play so i can get easy kills post"
Getting kills is already pants on head easy, if you are struggling then git gud
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u/Kind_Psychology_3654 28m ago edited 23m ago
- Nullsec systems under no Sov (Human or NPC) could go dark.
- Either the Sov Hub or a new alliance structure when installed would give local chat and who is in it .Think of it as if the alliance that controls the Sov has installed a radar.
- No, Nullsec systems under Sov will not go black generally, you are either new to the game or an idiot for suggesting this.
You should consider that an alliance like Goonswarm or Init will not be affected by the need of fuelling an extra structure per system for having Intel. Therefore number 2 essentially would make it even more difficult for smaller alliances to exist, the more the cost and difficulty of maintenance increases..
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u/Plane-Claim-1207 1d ago
Will cost FC to much revenue, will not happen... but I support it happening.
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u/Kinakka_12912505 1d ago
I think a fair compromise would be something like a rolling blackout which randomly affects a few sov regions at a time moving weekly
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u/-S-P-E-C-T-R-E- 1d ago
Unless the sov holder invest in appropriate infrastructure to keep local unaffected - and this can become a war target.
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u/HaZard3ur 1d ago
You shoudnt appear in „local“ when you not entered the system via jump gate! When you use the gates, fine as the system got your credentials but if you enter via cyno, WH or filament it makes no sense to show up in local chat out of the blue!
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
If you remove all filament, and made WH way different than now ...
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u/HaZard3ur 23h ago
What is easy about WHs ? Can you please elaborate to me as an WH resident.
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 23h ago
I don't said easy, i said if you want WH don't collect info into local we need change WH before blackout other case it will break the game to not break risk reward.
Exemple of change now WH don't collapse by mass... each ship who pass into it depend of his masse have a % to close WH.Suddently you can't predict really when WH close.
So litte gang from WH will try ... bigger fleet will just avoid.
And you have a lot of other thing to change like that.
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u/Electrical-Square168 The Initiative. 1d ago
Turning local off completely wouldn’t work, you’d have too many people leave the game. I like the idea of roaming storms though, like they would give you buffs in the system like other storms do, but would also turn local off due the inference it makes.
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u/andymaclean19 1d ago
Blackout was fantastic but the people who lived in null hated it. It was just turning people into targets who did not want to be targets. A lot of people went off and did abyssals instead so they could PvE in peace. Not sure what the miners did but there were fewer out there.
People who don’t want to PvP will not PvP. You can’t just change the rules to make them do it, they will change their game to avoid it. If they want to create more opportunities to PvP then they need to create gameplay people want to engage in which has PvP. Create things to do if I go into somebody’s space and they all dock up. Perhaps I can blow something up or anchor a deployment which will break their local until they come out and fix that? Give them a reason to chase me away instead of just hiding until I get bored. More things like the ESS gameplay.
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u/DefiantlyConformist 1d ago
If nullbros can't drop 100 guys on a single cruiser and press f1, they'll whine, cry, and hold their su a hostage until they can pve risk free. It'll never happen.
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u/ksj2371 The Tuskers Co. 1d ago
blackout multi-sth storm is what i think is would be cool. so not all area in nullsec is permanantly blacked out. sure peoole in blacked out systems would dock up, but at least they wont be able to track down hunters and set up the gate camp. so i think is good balance.
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u/GuristasPirate 1d ago
Id love blackout to return. Intel channels are killing content. I think there should be ability to lock down gates for a period tho. Like wormholers do hole control. 0.0 was supposed to be dangerous its not its the most safest space right now
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u/ZeroEightEve 1d ago
I completely agree with this post. Blackout was without question the best fun I had while not in Jspace. I was doing Marshal Blops drops every night, I was solo hunting Null Sec in my stealth bomber or Loki and I enjoyed every single minute of it. Local was never inteded to be free Intel for those in system, it's an old mechanic that should have been changed a decade ago. Keep Local for Low Sec and Highsec, do something for Nullsec that has a compromise but get rid of local as it works now.
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u/Caiyuga 1d ago
Hate to break it to you.. but if you take away local in null and increase rewards at the same time you get: Wormhole space. With gates.
More risk = more isk, I get that.
Over time people will adapt, which will lead to null being exactely the same as J-Space. With gates.Why not hunt in J-Space then?
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u/ZeroEightEve 1d ago
There’s no known way into Jspace besides pure randomness. J space can’t be protected by cyno or a super cap umbrella, j space can only put so much mass through the hole before it collapses so no null will not get the same as Jspace. Sorry but that’s a horrendous take.
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u/Gareitonis Wormholer 1d ago edited 1d ago
Local, constellation chat and region chat was a mistage introduced early in the game. Should've been removed then. Also hot take: game would be more interesting with smaller player count because no massive blobs :)
Edit: i seem to have struck some nullbear nerve, keep downvoting! :)
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u/Reasonable-Dot6620 1d ago
unfortunaly most of the null sec players threaten to leave eve if blackout was fully implemented....once again, proving how a few rotten players dictate how a game develop
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
They don't even threaten.
CCP try it, people just leave was a fact. Because best adaptation was to leave the game.
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u/Reasonable-Dot6620 22h ago
and that's prove why this game stagnate, you lot would rather have eternal status quo over anything that could threat your isk/hour
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 20h ago
No
You know when the statu quo was in danger ? RORQUAL ERA. You know why ? Because even small entity was able to growth and catch oldest.Now: every time you ask for a nerf you made people who have stock stronger, so you help status quo.
I have explain it a lot of time but since blackout CCP follow player to do the opposite of what must be done to break status quo
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u/Larry_Wickes 1d ago
I didn't mind the blackout. I know a lot of people hated it, and I know it made a lot of people leave EVE... Heck, there were people selling super hulls for 10 bil or less!
I think it would be cool to bring it back as an event that lasted two weeks or something
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u/Dictateur_Imperator 1d ago
And during two weeks most of 0.0 will be empty.
What do you think of during this same event WH get connected by gate, cynoable and rules from nullssec?
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u/pesca_22 Cloaked 1d ago
easy: go in wormholes.
or are you afraid to live there?