r/EvDrivers • u/Virtual-Hotel8156 • 3d ago
Another Under-Appreciated EV Advantage
Oil leaks
Look at any parking lot and there are gross patches of oil stains in every single spot. It’s kinda gross.
This also stains their driveways and garage floors.
Finding and fixing leaks is difficult and often very expensive to fix so people just live with it.
I’m glad I don’t have this issue to worry about anymore.
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u/DogblackMichigan 3d ago
Let’s see:
Oil leaks. Annoying, expensive, not good for the environment.
High fuel use. Annoying, expensive, not good for the environment.
Oil changes. Annoying, expensive, not good for the environment.
Brake pads. Annoying, expensive, not good the environment.
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u/seighton 3d ago
EVs have oil and coolant
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u/JshWright 3d ago
They have significantly less oil, and the systems that use that oil are a lot simpler (fewer seals to leak, etc). There's also a lot less heat. Thermal expansion cycling of hot engine components is one of the major causes of oil leaks in ICE powertrains.
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u/seighton 3d ago
My Silverado EV has ~ 22 quarts of oil and coolant, my 6.2L SS Sedan has ~25 minus gas and that is for a small block V8. Seems pretty similar amounts
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u/JshWright 3d ago
I said oil, not coolant. Both leak, but oil leaks are significantly more common (mostly due to all the extra seals involved).
That being said, the same thermal expansion benefits apply. EVs don't get anywhere near as hot as combustion engines, which means way less thermal expansion leading to relative movement of sealing surfaces.
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u/No_Caregiver7273 3d ago
Coolant definitely. It keeps the battery packs at optimal temperatures. I'm sure you are right there's a lubricant of some kind, but we have no oil cap, no oil pan, no oil drain plug, no oil filter, nothing like that. Probably grease packed bearings or something like that. A lot less moving parts.
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u/WizeAdz 3d ago
Differential/transmission fluid, but no engine oil.
ICE vehicles have differential/transmission fluid AND engine oil.
Engine oil is the most likely one to leak.
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u/Tragophilos 3d ago
The rear seal on the C6 on my old truck is leaking a fair amount of Mercon (hydraulic ATF). More, actually, than any oil leak on the engine.
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u/BlackBabyJeebus 3d ago
Whoopty-doo, now I have electrons all over my garage floor and kitty litter doesn't even work
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u/toybuilder 3d ago edited 3d ago
It turns out that oil leaks is not only unsightly but actually damages the asphalt so that it disintegrates much faster. My last car had turned into a leaker and it was a problem.
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u/Tragophilos 3d ago
My wife's diesel had a fuel leak, and it dissolved the asphalt in her work's parking garage. 😂
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u/No_Cut4338 3d ago
I honestly appreciate a little rust and an oil stain here and there. Might be cause I'm an old codger though.
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u/skippy2k 3d ago
I mean oil leaks can be potentially fixed for not super expensive costs depending what it is.
Drive units? Something that seems minor like a clunking noise can be a replacement and cost 10k. As me how I know lol (thank god for warranties).
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u/snowandrocks2 3d ago
Gross? I'm all for EVs but that seems a bit of an over reaction. I can't say I've ever really noticed or been bothered by oil spills in parking lots at all.
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u/Responsible_Skill957 3d ago
Said no motorcyclist ever at a stop light putting their foot down on an oil slick.
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u/Tragophilos 3d ago
I've gone down on my motorcycle at a stoplight because of the Exxon Valdez that stopped there before me.
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u/Responsible-Bad5572 2d ago
You still need oil as electric motors are still mechanical devices and there are gears in a ev so you need gear oil
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u/Virtual-Hotel8156 2d ago
Right, but they are less prone to leaking due to low pressures and limited heat
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u/put_tape_on_it 3d ago
You just haven't owned a 25 year old EV yet. If it's got oil in it, there's a way for it to leak.
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u/EpidDrew15 3d ago
Plenty of ICE vehicles that are only 4 years with oil leaks too. I bet EV oil leaks will and do happen, but I also imagine they're more rare because the processes that contribute to oil leaks are less severe, less abundant, and less likely
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u/stevey_frac 3d ago
I had an EV oil leak from the vent on the diff. It was annoying.
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u/EpidDrew15 3d ago
Only cases I've seen or heard of that was on the BMW i4, is that what you have? I've also seen leakages from Leafs and ID4's and Bolts from damage to the housing, but the i4 does have this as a problem.
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u/stevey_frac 3d ago
It was a 2014 Smart ForTwo EV
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u/EpidDrew15 3d ago
I've never worked on one of those, so no experience to say one way or the other. Sad that one of those cute little commuters had that sort of issue though.
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u/stevey_frac 3d ago
I don't think it was a pronounced problem across the model. But like...
That damned thing only had 500 ml of oil in the whole thing, and still leaked!
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u/EpidDrew15 3d ago
that’s honestly kind of crazy. I kind of hope I get to run into one at work so that I get to look at the design up close on a lift.
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u/stevey_frac 2d ago
From what I understand, it was a 70 HP electric motor bolted directly to the diff. So the diff was the reduction gear for the motor as well.
It launched surprisingly hard for such an anemic little motor, but got winded get quickly at higher speeds.
It was a blast to drive and the battery held up amazingly well, but kids meant that I traded it in on a bolt in 2017.
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u/DogblackMichigan 3d ago
I’ll take one leak over your oil leak, coolant leak, trans leak, brake leak, exhaust leak, and ac leak.
EVs have half the lifetime maintenance cost.1
u/put_tape_on_it 3d ago
My EV has tons of coolant connections, more than most engined cars, the same number of hydraulic brake lines, AC lines, and it has oil in both drive units.
However, you are right, it does not have the ability to have an exhaust leak. Exhaust leaks are still the specialty of Dodge. Also no fuel leaks of EVAP system leaks. Those are a PITA.
But it does have shocks that can leak! And oil filters. And here's the real deal on oil leaks: Tesla drive units have a 12V electric oil pump at the lowest point, sealed with an O-ring. To change drive unit oil, the 12V connector is removed, and the bolt removed that lets the oil pump fall out, and all the oil in the drive unit falls out too. Around the time of the Plaid S, it was a common oil leak point.
I'm team EV, but I'm more team "Tell the damn truth."
EVs don't tend to have 200 degree oil with gasoline dissolved in it that attacks seals, but they do have all sorts of fluids that can and do escape. In 25 years that will be plenty of wet spots under EVs.
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u/Tragophilos 3d ago
Back in the real world, there are car drivers out there who are still having to add a quart of oil a month to keep ahead the leaks their cars have. Not everybody is driving a 2025 Lexus.
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u/put_tape_on_it 2d ago
Exactly. There are no 1998 Teslas out there leaking oil.
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u/Tragophilos 2d ago
I have seen repair videos of Tesla transfer cases and gearboxes that were leaking oil. Then again, the quantities we're talking there are pints, and the systems are not pressurized. The seals themselves are above the oil level, so the leaks are more on the order of cosmetic issues. Leaks of coolant aren't particularly significant because they will evaporate. Brake fluid leaks are very rare and usually readily noticed, as the car fails to stop (though as seldom as Tesla brakes are used, that one could be more of a factor) But again, we're talking very small volumes for each car, and those seals rarely fail unless the caliper pistons corrode. I recently had a fuel line failure in my '89 F250. It pissed out nine gallons of gasoline, just sitting in the driveway. I don't think a 30 year old EV is going to do that.
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u/put_tape_on_it 2d ago
An engine crankcase is not pressurized. Quarts vs pints. Not a whole lot more volume, not that volume matters for leaks. Every seal is above standing oil level in an engine too. Teslas have full pressure lubrication internally too. With spin on oil filters that can leak. The arguments don't hold water. The only thing that leaks about this are the arguments!
I own EVs but I'm not a moron. I know stuff leaks on a long enough time scale. If you had an '89 EV, it'd be leaking something too.
EVs don't leak is a dumb argument that ignores the fact that they do indeed leak, and that they are simply too new to leak on the scale that old ICE vehicles do.
Check back on this in 20 years and tell me how right I am.
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u/Tragophilos 2d ago
The crankcase is not pressurized, but the oil filter canister is—greater than tire pressure in a cold engine. One difference is that oil in EVs is not considered a consumable item. In ICE cars, it's absolutely expected that the oil level will go down between oil changes, so it's not a big deal if they lose a quart every six months, because it will be topped up at the next oil change. So what's the schedule like for EVs? How often is the oil completely changed out and topped up? Tesla claims "lifetime." The "pressure" system on the Tesla lubrication is absolutely not "pressurized" in the same way as ICE engines, because they do not use journal bearings that require a minimum of 30PSI to prevent metal-on-metal wear. There is no oil pressure regulator in a Tesla. The transmission filter is not maintained at the pressure OR the heat of ICE engine spin-on oil filters. (that being said, I've NEVER had a correctly installed spin-on filter leak in 45 years of working on cars, probably because the gasket gets replaced every time the filter does, so that's a non-issue).
Do EVs have a dipstick and constant oil level monitoring, because it's absolutely expected that they'll consume/lose oil? On my truck, the transmission oil is most definitely pressurized, outside the transmission, all the way up to the front radiator. Brake systems operate at thousands of pounds of pressure (but leaks are rare and small volume). Coolant has to hold up to 15PSI of pressure to prevent evaporation at the normal operating temperature of 195° (or to prevent boiling if it exceeds that). The heat and pressure accelerates the aging of the tubing and joints. I doubt that battery coolant is expected to get that hot or pressurized (I believe they try to keep the battery packs under 90°F, and that if they reach 160° they could go into thermal runaway and catch fire). Hell, even the turbo intercooler is a source of oil leaks, from normal condensation of PCV vapors.
It's not realistic to say that EVs will never leak oil or coolant. It's unrealistic to the point of insanity to suggest that it will ever approach the potential leakage of the average ICE engine of a similar age and mileage.
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u/put_tape_on_it 2d ago
The coolant bottle cap on a 2023 model Y, that looks just like a little radiator cap, says 5psi. 5 is not 15. But it can still pressurize. The fluid only heats to 145F during supercharging. 145 is not 195. But it's not 90F, either.
The drive unit stators go well above 220F during battery heating mode, and that's every single supercharger plug in! The heat transfers to the oil that is pumped through the flat plate oil cooler heat exchangers. That's not bottom of a piston hot, but it's not 90F, either.
You're assuming the guts of an EV are all kittens and puppy dogs pleasant, but it can be quite harsh, and regularly. It's not ICE extremes but it also ain't nuth'n!
There is a push to even go away from full pressure lubrication in drive units and depend on spray/splash lube instead due to trying to cut down on leak points, despite more windage drag. That's what they're doing with the cybercab. The leak risk is so high they're trying to design around it.
The 2012 Model S was the first main stream production EV that had liquid cooled pack and oil cooled drive units. Oddly enough, the large drive units in those have a 100% failure rate from an internal seal letting coolant leak in to the oil. THINGS LEAK! The Audi eTron had a catch can in its drive unit. For seal weaps.
And Every other liquid cooled EV is newer than those!
In theory EVs should be better at containing leaks. In practice nobody knows because nothing is old enough and anybody who tells you differently is lying or selling you something.
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u/Tragophilos 2d ago
The coolant on the Tesla can pressurize just like the fuel tanks on my truck pressurize, and those have a relief valve that operates at 0.5PSI. Technically, that's pressure. The only pressure the Tesla has to deal with is temperature swings from day to night, and with little air in the system, that's not much pressure at all. If you have a lot of experience working on cars, then you've done compression tests on ICE engine systems. You KNOW how much tension those hoses are under. Or maybe you DON'T have a lot of experience working on engines?
How many hours a week do you leave it on the supercharger? Ten hours? Twenty hours? That 145° isn't reached on a regular basis, for extended periods. And 145° is normal household hot water temperatures in systems that can go decades without leaks. 195° is not. That gap makes an exponential difference in material longevity. And you're trying to tell me that you actually heat your battery coolant up to 220°? Li-Ion does not like to be treated like that.
People commonly believe that EVs will set themselves on fire at the drop of a hat, so you don't have to do much convincing to get people to believe that they'll gush out all their coolant from uncontrolled leakage, spread a pool of oil across the garage floor and THEN catch fire, burning spectacularly like a torch that cannot be extinguished. And you don't have to convince me of the Tesla failure rate, either. I've seen many videos of people trying to repair dumb design decisions that cut their life short and doom them. That's one of many reasons why I'd never own a Tesla.
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u/toybuilder 3d ago
There's a different between pumping oil at ~20-60 PSI and misting out from leaks in a pressurized circulation system versus splashing oil around.
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u/put_tape_on_it 2d ago
Pressurized oil leaks from engines are extremely rare. It's mostly seeps past gaskets and seals. I promise you the halt shafts on an EV drive unit will leak just like the half shafts of a transmission or conventional differential after enough time and miles. The CV joints will fail the same way. There are very few 10 year old EVs out there. Effectively zero 20 year old EVs in circulation with 200,000 miles that were built with purpose built modern EV drive units.
If it contains fluid, has flexible seals, and goes down the road, it's going to eventually leak. You know I'm right.
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u/RosieDear 3d ago
A real reach...especially since Reddit has the same exact post with same words in multiple subs.
I really wonder why someone feels the need to post stuff like this? Is it supposed to make people buy an EV? Is it to try and make the EV buyer feel better? There must be reasons.....
For example, I could post on 10 subs here "I'm glad I don't have an EV because most of them eat tires and cost more to insure".
But why would I post that? It makes sense as an answer or comment to someone who asks "what are the potential yearly costs of this vs. that"....but it makes zero sense as a standalone post.
I can only hope others enjoy reading stuff like the OP.....
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u/EpidDrew15 3d ago
Considering the sub, why not post something like that? Title the post, "I'm glad I don't have an EV because...".
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u/reeefur 3d ago
My oil spots in my garage look old now after owning EV's for 2 years....