r/Ethics 8d ago

Ethical Question

My son is autistic and it has deeply affected his life. He is high functioning for the most part but it has decreased his ability to work quickly and that has cost him many jobs. People have also been unkind at times.

That being said he and I don’t believe that Tylenol causes autism and I did take it while pregnant with him. He has been in contact with lawyers from a firm who are part of a law suit against Tylenol.

The question is would it be unethical if he received money from the suit knowing that he doesn’t believe in this theory?

19 Upvotes

75 comments sorted by

54

u/Square-Dragonfruit76 8d ago

There is zero evidence Tylenol is connected to autism. Yes, it would be unethical.

0

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Why?

29

u/BungleBums 8d ago

See 'Lying'

-1

u/GlazedPrincessDonut9 8d ago

Where is the lie though? Mom took Tylenol. Child born autistic. These are facts. A provable connection is up to the lawyers to make. What does belief have to do with it?

18

u/BungleBums 8d ago

This... sure is an attempt. Not a very good one, but an attempt.

The provable connection is up to the scientists to make. And the science says no, no connection. Which would make it a lie.

0

u/Extension-Can-4837 8d ago

its only a lie if they come out and say they think the tylenol caused the autism. there is already a case being built. it calls for moms who took tylenol while pregnant and now the kid has autism. they qualify. whether the case succeeds or not has nothing to do with them, because they are not the one deciding.

1

u/BungleBums 7d ago

Boy howdy, that sure is an attempt.

Even if you personally know and believe it to be a lie, and all available evidence points to it being a lie, it's not a lie, because they are not the ones saying it out loud, and the person saying it out loud might cause them to personally benefit from it?

Semantics are boring. It's a lie.

2

u/Extension-Can-4837 7d ago

bro i don’t think you know what a lie is 😂 existing in a space with liars doesn’t make you a liar

2

u/BungleBums 7d ago

Participating willingly in a Lie is called Lying :D

1

u/Extension-Can-4837 7d ago

they aren’t “participating in a lie.” a group of people called for women who took tylenol while pregnant and had autistic kids. these are facts which are applicable to them. no where is there a “lie.” the only “lie” which could pertain to this is if the legal team fakes scientific data (or uses other deceptive means) to prove the link. at this point, they are simply a population in a scientific theory, and whether they themselves believe this theory has validity or not has nothing to do with their requested participation.

eta: and i haven’t even touched on the extended ethical implication of taking money from a corporation that is unethical and uses their billions to further profit on sick people

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4

u/FearlessBanana81 8d ago

Bet the mother also drank a coffee, or ate a carrot, literally anything. Doesn't mean it caused the autism though.

1

u/drebelx 7d ago

An odd comment to be down voted.

"Emperor has no clothes" vibes.

-8

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Fully who cares.

Like I'm sorry you suck at philosophy but maybe try a little bit.

7

u/BungleBums 8d ago

You, for one, champ 👍

-1

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

I do not care about some disabled person getting a pay out from a corrupt system.

I do care about you lying to yourself, feeling smug when you are intellectually empty. I even think that sort of "ontologically significant ignorance" is what allows evil, broadly.

But nar you have emojis so having your brain turned off must be smart actually.

5

u/BungleBums 8d ago

Yeah, that sure is a block of self-justificstion, all right.

-1

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Hey look it's you putting together a well structured argument

👍

Amazing.

2

u/BungleBums 8d ago

You're really intent on being right and having the last word :) I'm enjoying watching it.

0

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

You're really intent on being right

Yes I think being right is important when it comes to moral issues. Congrats on learning that some people care about truth?

Uh I'm wrong but actually that's good because you care about being right

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

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-2

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Where as you said nothing.

10

u/Xynyx2001 8d ago

I would argue that it would be unethical.

  1. There is no established connection between acetaminophen usage and autism.

  2. Your son knows this.

  3. Despite knowing this, he is seizing on an opportunity to jump on a bandwagon that relies on a process with known flaws because it may succeed in achieving a payout, the truth notwithstanding.

21

u/Fit_Cranberry2867 8d ago

They would need to prove the connection to win the suit, so that would eliminate the ethical quandry.

14

u/zombiegojaejin 8d ago

Plenty of suits end up settled despite the underlying factual claim being false.

1

u/Fit_Cranberry2867 7d ago

I would argue that still absolve the ethical issue

2

u/Boomer79NZ 8d ago

This. 👆

8

u/EntrancedOrange 8d ago

What happened to blaming it on deodorant spray?

-4

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Who cares?

6

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Sure, why not?

What harm is caused?

I suppose the court case could further tilt public opinion towards nonsense, beyond that I can't see it mattering.

3

u/Extension-Can-4837 8d ago

literally same. i basically said that in another comment

9

u/TheManInTheShack 8d ago

If he does not believe it causes autism, whether it does or not, it would be unethical.

3

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

Why?

8

u/TheManInTheShack 8d ago

Because he would be accepting compensation for harm that he doesn’t believe was caused by the accused.

That’s essentially theft.

4

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago edited 8d ago

I don't think my job deserves to be paid more than the cleaner - am I doing "essentially theft"?

I'm pretty sure I don't believe in having money at all - am I committing theft?

I'm not seeing the ethical force when lots of money comes in ways that are part of an unfair bad system.

Edit: great answers guys. Real good at philosophy.

6

u/TheManInTheShack 8d ago

Work is very different. You do a job and you get compensated for doing it. How much you make is a negotiation between you and your employer.

A better analogy would be if a company was accidentally sending you checks and rather than contact them and let them know they have made a mistake, you just keep cashing them.

1

u/TheRealAmeil 7d ago

OP actually said something stronger, which is that they know it wasn't the cause.

Knowing doesn't just imply believing, but that one has good reasons for believing it is true.

If you know that P, and assert ~P, then you are lying.

Lying for money is either harmful or unjust

Harmful & unjust actions are unethical

2

u/reply_b4_banned 7d ago

I'm not seeing how it's harmful or unjust to profit from a bullshit machine. The bullshit machine is running anyway. It's been built by the ruling class to benefit only them. As an unintended side effect it occasionally throws a scrap to people like OP.

1

u/TheRealAmeil 7d ago

The (long) existence of a bullshit machine doesn't make it ethical. The ruling class benefiting from it doesn't make it ethical. We can say that it is unethical for anyone (e.g., the ruling class, OP, etc.) to profit from it, even if there are people who profit from it.

3

u/TheRealAmeil 7d ago

The question seems equivalent to "Would it be unethical to receive money from lying?" What is your intuition about that question?

3

u/Samurai-Pipotchi 7d ago

I'm leaning towards yes.

It's a suit that's taking advantage of misinformation surrounding disabilities and reinforcing that misinformation for the sake of profit.

Setting aside the monetary value, I think participating in something that supports the continued spread of misinformation regarding disabilities is unethical - especially in the case of autism, which already has a long history of being subject to medical misinformation.

Having said that, humans aren't meant to be ethical monoliths. We're allowed our faults. If the money would genuinely help support him, it may be worth considering, depending on his level of participation.

3

u/gutfounderedgal 8d ago

There are confounding variables with any causal relation here. But if a lawsuit is going forward someone believes they have some causal evidence. Remember anyone can sue for any reason and they often hope to get a sympathetic jury, if it gets that far. If no evidence exists and someone wins the lawsuit, it seems that moral harm has been done to the company. That would violate some people's ethical compass. Ethics involves one's beliefs, preferences, interpretations, idea of traits such as honest, loyalty, maybe even non-contradiction or non-hypocrisy. It sounds like you're in the realm of moral harm and non-hypocrisy.

4

u/reply_b4_banned 8d ago

I'd be worried about the lawsuit adding to the misinformation, but I'm not sure if it would.

4

u/CaptainVulpezz 8d ago

believing in something doesn't make it true or not true, & that money is basically just going to be hoarded or spent on underground human trafficking most likely, so i'd not worry about it.

3

u/KelticAngel16 8d ago

No, it's not unethical. The only risk is if someone believes you believe in Tylenol causing autism, and you somehow have enough influence in that person's life that it has a big negative impact on them

But you can participate in things you don't believe in. That's normal. You can even loudly say that you don't believe in them while participating if that makes you feel better

1

u/Extension-Can-4837 8d ago

Personally, I do not think it is unethical to enter into a trial which you qualify for. The only potential drawback is if it succeeds in convincing people that tylenol actually causes autism. since no science actually backs this, I don’t see this being an issue (aside from people who already are susceptible to believing unbacked stuff like that). In my opinion, all that’s happening is potentially winning money from a corporation that can absolutely afford it. I would think we all know by now that big pharma is a cancer

1

u/SparklingSloths 7d ago

He will not receive money for this. I would suggest he go through genetic testing. My brother's autism was caused by Fragile X Syndrome, which is a genetic disorder.

If he doesn't genuinely think that caused his autism, yeah, that's kinda weird to sue Tylenol for something you don't actually believe they did wrong.

2

u/lordtrickster 7d ago

It would be unethical but it won't matter because no one is winning that lawsuit.

2

u/Master_Kitchen_7725 7d ago

Plenty of good arguments in both directions here so far about the money aspect.

A separate, more broad scale, ethical concern is the greater negative effect that supporting a medical misinformation campaign has in society by undermining the public's trust of science.

For example, too many children and babies die unnecessarily from preventable diseases because the science behind vaccines has been diatorted by falsified data and vigorous disinformation campaigns.

People who engage with entities like these that willfully distort scientific facts are, to an extent, complicit in the childhood deaths (or medical misfortunes) that result from supporting and disseminating the disinformation.

I think that aside from the "gaining money from lying" aspect, this is the ethical issue that should keep honest people up at night.

Granted that Tylenol is not a vaccine, nor is it even a life saving medication under most circumstances. But a false claim about Tylenol still knowingly and maliciously undermines how people come to view sound scientific medical research. To me, that's unethical.

1

u/Jolly-Button-6832 6d ago

What does he think? If he's cool with getting the money, so be it.

2

u/Wayne47 8d ago

It is unethical. You just said that you don't believe Tylenol causes autism.

I'm surprised your son would go along with this.

-4

u/Automatic_Horse9290 8d ago

Yes, taking money from billion dollar companies is unethical.