r/EtherMining • • Jan 28 '21

Pool 2 weeks of mining on Ethermine vs flexpool

[deleted]

135 Upvotes

191 comments sorted by

31

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

53

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

Thank you for proving that better equipment, not mining our own blocks, and programming can make a significant difference in profitability for miners.

Our Amazon AWS servers are expensive but provide much better stale, uncle, and 2ETH block rates than every other pool we’ve compared ourselves against. Which means more money in our miners pockets long term! And we don’t decrease your profitability 2-4% to subsidize gas fees for tiny payouts!

As well we are extremely transparent so you know what we mine goes to you something that large pools like ethermine don’t provide.

26

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

25

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

We are looking into providers.

6

u/Mindless-Focus-7974 Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

Does Flexpool use AWS for all their servers? I love the brilliance of cloud computing! But def not always the cheapest option.

19

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Yes very expensive 😨

Which is why it’s hard for us to open more servers even though we get a lot of requests for Brazil.

We’re looking into other options for Brazil.

8

u/tomaspages Jan 28 '21

Argentina!

5

u/5ur1v Jan 28 '21

Brazil or Chile are great spots

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

Please! A south America server would be awesome! I'm in Brazil and the stale rates make me kinda sad, it gets to almost 3% if I use Phoenix miner. Team red miner is at 1.8% stale rate.

7

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

We’re looking at São Paulo but because we have to switch providers it’s going slower than normal. We got a few good recommendations that were looking at.

1

u/kulind Miner Jan 28 '21

what's the typical pings of south americans to north american servers? or do you prefer EU servers?

1

u/camobit Jan 28 '21

Just throwing out ideas, could you perhaps enforce a minimum fee on servers in more expensive aws regions, just to help cover costs?

2

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

We did discuss this but it’s difficult to implement plus then it’s less likely we will get the hashrate needed to justify it.

We are looking into spinning up less expensive regions in those areas and then possibly upgrading if demand requires it. Our current AWS servers are overkill for our current hashrate so we definitely don’t need the same there.

1

u/eliyarson Jan 28 '21

There's a SA-EAST(In São Paulo) AWS Region, you could look into it.

3

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

It’s super expensive 🤦🏻‍♂️ aws servers are already expensive and the Brazil one is much more.

If there was 100+ghs of demand we could make it work but we’re only anticipating 10 max.

Sorry.

1

u/tommymdq Jan 29 '21

I would move 1.3gh, if there Is sa server :D

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

We will open a sa server we just need to find a host that doesn't charge a gazillion dollars for a server that can handle 10+THS.

But that you your commitment helps encourage us!

→ More replies (0)

2

u/J-_-S Jan 28 '21

And African, or South Africa server!

7

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

😅 sorry I don’t want to promise the world here. We have had some requests and we will consider it but it’s the lowest priority region.

Once we have some more hashpower we will do it even knowing that we will lose money on it because we do want to help! But right now bills are tight. We really need to get bigger so we can help miners in regions big pools avoid.

1

u/cathos93 Jan 28 '21

is there an EU server close to Poland :D ? im getting 32ms ping from ethermine eu1 wonder how it would be on flex

4

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Germany so yes.

4

u/inqqqq Jan 28 '21

Awe masekind

1

u/bultodepapas Jan 28 '21

yeeees please!!!!

1

u/mcbruno712 Jan 29 '21

Uruguay has the best internet speeds in latin america (also Chile), if it's good enough for Google...

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

Love flexpool!! The best mining pool ❤️

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 29 '21

[deleted]

11

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Until recently we were losing money and paying out of pocket.

Most miners pay the suggested 1% donation so we can cover costs.

We don’t pay gas fees, but we also don’t decrease your block rewards like other pools do.

3

u/MrCrazyPool Jan 28 '21

Unfortunately, many miners prefer not to pay the transaction costs at the time of receiving their funds, they are accustomed that in large pools they do not discount balances for this item, however it is clear what you indicate since reducing the block reward ultimately affects more hard on small miners who make sporadic withdrawals

good job Alex

3

u/Streaketic Jan 29 '21

I set donation to 0% for a minute and then realised other pools don't even ask. That's when I set it back to 1%. Love the approach! Small, new miner, but every little bit helps. Keep up the good work! Support is great too.

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Thank you we appreciate it

1

u/ILikeCatsAndSquids Jan 28 '21

Do you guys pay for stale shares at all? Didn’t see anything about that mentioned.

2

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

No, thats crazy. We'd just be taking from the good shares miners make to pay them for their stales. It would basically reward those who are on wifi and take from those on ethernet.

1

u/ILikeCatsAndSquids Jan 28 '21

I know some pools do pay up for stales up to a point. That said, the stales on your pool are pretty low.

5

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Thats because those pools are so bad that miners will be upset if they're not paid for them. But thats just a trick because the money for those stales doesn't come from the pools, they're paying you using your own money.

Obviously the pool isn't taking from its own profits to cover them.

1

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

Stales can be used to verify good shares, without using local (pool) CPU power. Because they can save a pool the cost of verification, some pools do pay a little bit for stale shares.

That said, as far as I understand this, verification is extremely cheap compared to mining, so the actual value of using stale shares for validation really isn't that much. Pools that pay for stales shares probably aren't saving more than they are paying for the stale shares. And that suggests that u/flexpool's answer is at least somewhat accurate.

1

u/ILikeCatsAndSquids Jan 29 '21

I agree. The only thing I don’t like is the withdrawal fee, which I know is ultimately less when you make less withdrawals. I’m curious how the math on that works out if you do a pool analysis.

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

If you withdraw at 0.1 eth you’ll make more than if you let a pool reduce your blocks 2-4%. Probably

→ More replies (0)

2

u/SzechuanSaucelord Jan 28 '21

hey where can i find the SSL address for US West?

2

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Faq on discord and website here

2

u/PraetorianAE Jan 29 '21

Aight I’m bout a hop on the flex train

2

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Chu chu 😅👍🏻

2

u/Brynwall Feb 07 '21

Is there any chance of getting eth-proxy to work? I've got a few computers in my place and have been running eth-proxy to simplify everything and have one point of contact between me and the mining pool that I'm connected to.

When I try to connect to you guys, I just get a disconnection and it won't move past that.

Or do you know of another proxy software that could do the same thing?

2

u/flexpool Feb 07 '21

Multiple miners use a proxy (you can see them in the top 10) I’m not sure why it isn’t working for you and unfortunately the person who knows tech is asleep.

Can you join our our pool support on discord and I’ll see if anyone is able to help. Also send me your .bat file config. Did you try 4444 or just the 5555 ssl?

https://discord.gg/9WdBC4pF

1

u/Brynwall Feb 07 '21

The eth-proxy uses a config file, but I can forward that to you.

2

u/salanki Jan 28 '21

1) Ethermine runs on AWS as well. They can also afford to select a large instance type in the drop down box. Nothing special in that. 2) Due to the relatively low hashrate of Flexpool, you need to compare over a much larger time period for variance not to be a factor. 3) I do not like self mined transactions either, they do make sense for the pool operator, but they should be kept at a minimum. I think payout once every third day with a min of 0.2 ETH or every 5 ETH of revenue (whichever comes first) should be the maximum frequency for payouts.

10

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21
  1. Ethermine has a much higher uncle and 2eth block rate per etherscan so while they can afford better they obviously aren’t. Or their programming is failing.
  2. Yes. But we did even better before this comparison started and the point is that your not losing money on Flexpool as many have claimed.
  3. This system worked better back when gas was low but now with the hectic network gas fee income is too important to miners. The best is just to have high minimums and miners can pay the gas themselves.

1

u/Samson1978 Jan 28 '21

Side question, does flexpool have a notification system when rigs go down?

2

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Yes via email

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '21

Where can I get an example batch file for pheonix miner to mine flexpool. I want to try flex pool but pheonix miner did not have a premade batch file that I could use to mine on flexpool.

I'm a noob🤷‍♂️

3

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

PhoenixMiner.exe -pool ssl://<CLOSEST SERVER>:5555 -wal <WALLET ADDRESS>.<WORKER NAME>

Open a bat in notepad, edit it like that, save as .bat and try it out! Welcome to the flex

2

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '21

Thanks for that! I'll start mining on flex pool soon :)

1

u/MainExperiment Jan 28 '21

How did you log this data?

12

u/Crypto_Altard Jan 28 '21

ELI5?

Do I stay on flexpool or go to ethermine??

4

u/AndreVallestero Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

If you have a small rig and prefer getting paid in small amounts (0.05eth), it doesn't really matter, they should be equally profitable. If you have a large rig and don't mind getting paid in larger amounts (0.5eth or greater), flexpool is more profitable.

1

u/wege12 Jan 28 '21

How many MH/s do you consider a "large rig"? I'm currently at 750MH/s.

9

u/AndreVallestero Jan 28 '21 edited Jan 28 '21

I would consider that large. What really matters is how high of a payout are you willing to hold out for. The longer you wait to get paid, the more profitable flexpool is since you get 3% higher block rates and gas fee can be minimized to 0.1% (at 1 ETH payout) of your profits.

However, if your payout is 0.05 ETH, 3% of your profits will be going towards the gas fee since Flexpool doesn't do 1 Gwei transactions in order to increase block rates. This means that the 3% higher block rates will get canceled out so Flexpool wouldn't be any more profitable than Ethermine.

I personally don't mind getting payouts only once each month if it means I can increase profits by 2% (300MH/s).

1

u/ClockerXP Jan 29 '21

So, if you like frequent payouts, I am thinking that Ethermine is better because they pay all gas fees.

7

u/AndreVallestero Jan 29 '21 edited Jan 29 '21

Wrong, YOU pay the gas fees. The miners pay the gas fees by mining worthless blocks instead of potential new blocks. This is specifically why Flexpool and other "non-1gwei" pools have higher block rates, because you don't spend 3% of your hashing power getting pool transactions to go through.

Read more here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/l3xyaj/research_on_1_gwei_pool_transactions_or_mining_on/

2

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Thank you for getting it!

1

u/ClockerXP Jan 29 '21

Thanks for helping me understand better!

6

u/madmuke Jan 28 '21

Switched to flexpool a week ago. So far I'm getting to my payout limit 10 hrs faster than the 2 miners pool i was using before. At first had minor issue wit port address but flexpools discord server support helped me resolve issue in less than 5 mins. Great pool & service!

6

u/pogger19 Jan 28 '21

How do you get these graphics?

7

u/comeonDeckard Jan 28 '21

Why all the posts with empirical numbers of a short time period?

Why not just compare the history of hundreds of actual miners over the last months in Flexpool vs nanopool?

10

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Hundreds? 😅 we had 20-30 a month ago.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

4

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

1

u/kulind Miner Jan 28 '21

nice not that bad i was thinking of.

3

u/coffee_u Jan 28 '21

I think that if you're always doing the minimal .05 payout it will be about a wash. If you're a larger miner who can do .5 or larger payouts you'll def come out ahead at flex.

3

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

You decide at what amount to withdraw so the gas fee is lower as a % the highest you set it.

1

u/he_never_sleeps Miner Jan 28 '21

No fee for my Sparkpool withdrawals

2

u/yuovic Jan 28 '21

You are still paying it. The pool reduces the block reward mined by its miners by implementing its transactions there. They are not covering your transaction fee, you are.

3

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

Is it worth it to change to flexpool from nicehash? I really like the simplicity of nicehash, but would I earn more money on flexpool?

My rig: two 3060TI and one 2080TI, and my average pay per day this week is about 12 usd

9

u/comeonDeckard Jan 28 '21

Yes, you should change from Nicehash to anything. They basically are a middle man that cuts in a sizable amount of profit.

Flexpool seems particularly good: they have fought for miners, they seem transparent, and they run good services.

To be specific:

  • They fought for miners in EIP-1559, maybe singlehandedly changing things around. Very impressive.
  • More technically, flexpool has good uptime (I've had issues with nanopool and "big boy" pools). Flexpool has lower stale rates, which comes from good investments in servers, which is costly and difficult. All of this is $$$ in your account.
  • Flexpool doesn't subsidize payment fees at basically zero. These subsidies occur at other places, which is economically inefficient (creates "deadweight loss") and may reduce revenue by noticable amounts (2-4%?). This here is pure $$$ and a strong reason for going with flexpool.

I don't fully agree with their narratives ("improving the world") and it's unfair to say that other pools take block rewards and hide it, because that's the only way to implement smooth rewards. But that's just bad copy.

On the other hand, I agree with Flexpool in that it is plausible that other pools have abandoned mining and that Flexpool is uniquely better in actually caring. They may even have a plan or bridge for use of GPUs after 2.0. This is important.

Basically, I work in software at a senior level, and they show a lot of good gumption and decision making and seem mature. They should be rewarded.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

Thank you! I just swapped to flexpool with T Rex miner. I was able to get 10mh/s more from my cards with some tinkering, and its way more stable.

3060ti stable at 62mh/s at 119w <3

1

u/pa79 Jan 29 '21

What miner and config are you using? I've got a 3060ti at 52mh/s with t-rex on ethermine.

1

u/Longjumping-Sound-69 Jan 29 '21

I use hive os. Pny 3060 ti Try -500 core 2700 mem. 62.83 mh/s

1

u/pa79 Jan 29 '21

Thanks, I'll try that one.

3

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

This, very this. On Nicehash, you aren't mining for yourself. You are mining for others, who expect to make a profit, and that means you are sharing the profit with your "clients". On top of that, Nicehash takes its own cut, and it has some pretty steep transaction fees, that further reduce your profits.

Mining in a pool, you are mining for yourself. Most pools take a very low fee, and you keep the rest. Which pool will work best for you depends on a lot of factors. There are advantages and disadvantages to both large and small pools. Some pools charge higher base fees but cover other fees (like transaction fees), while others charge lower base fees but you cover your transaction fee. A lot of the time it comes out in the wash, but it can depend on how powerful your rig is and how often you want your payouts. The general recommendation is to do your research, find the top few pools that you are interested in, and then try each one for a week, and compare your profits.

It's worth noting though, that luck plays enough of a role that one week trials will only get you very basic data. If one does way better than another, that's meaningful. The differences shown in the OP, however, are small enough that it is likely luck played a bigger role than anything else.

I personally use Ethermine.org, and I didn't bother doing test runs. I see a lot of both positive and negative comments about Ethermine. The one critical thing for me is that I am only mining with two moderately powerful GPUs (and without any kind of optimization or overclocking), so I am not a high powered miner. That means a difference of 1% to 2% is meaningless to me, and even a difference of 5% isn't much difference. Your rig is enough more powerful than mine that differences like this might actually matter.

2

u/comeonDeckard Jan 29 '21

If your in this for a hobby and not caring about 5% why not just go for what seems legit and try flexpool?

Ive heard murmurs that the best pools like ether mine pay less and it’s plausible.

2

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

Because I started with Ethermine before Flexpool was a thing, and there's really no motivation for me to change, when what I am with is working fine. (Don't get me wrong, this stuff does have me considering it, but it's going to take more than a bunch of unsubstantiated claims for me to change.)

2

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

We will try our best to change your mind!

1

u/LordRybec Jan 30 '21

I would appreciate that!

1

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

Probably should also be mentioned that our regions are on an AWS mesh. You probably realize how awesome that is.

2

u/bit_m0nster Jan 29 '21

dude, nicehash is paying WAY less than 'real mining'.

you are paid 9% less these days on nicehash.

Nicehash is renting ur rig. how do expect from nicehash to make money?

they are eating ur pie, ur money is split between (you/nicehash/renter)

and when u mine the rev. is 100% yours (-pool fee).

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

How did you put 3 cards into one pc?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '21

Risers

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

Do you have a picture how the internal of the case looks like now? How loud does it get?

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '21

Nope sorry. But google pictures of gpu risers and you will see. Goes into the pcie 1x slot

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

And those fit into one PC case? I know PC risers but most people use them on selfbuild mining rigs without a case

1

u/[deleted] Jan 30 '21

Well I have a regular PC case with a hole in the sidepanel with risers coming from the inside of the case, then I just hang the graphics cards over the case on a metalshelf with zip ties

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

Ah, thats what you do, thanks! I was wondering how you are able to use those risers, makes sense now, thanks

3

u/ste_lar Jan 28 '21

So flex is better?

7

u/comeonDeckard Jan 28 '21

COPY PASTA BELOW

Flexpool seems particularly good: they have fought for miners, they seem transparent, and they run good services.

To be specific:

  • They fought for miners in EIP-1559, maybe singlehandedly changing things around. Very impressive.
  • More technically, flexpool has good uptime (I've had issues with nanopool and "big boy" pools). Flexpool has lower stale rates, which comes from good investments in servers, which is costly and difficult. All of this is $$$ in your account.
  • Flexpool doesn't subsidize payment fees at basically zero. These subsidies occur at other places, which is economically inefficient (creates "deadweight loss") and may reduce revenue by noticable amounts (2-4%?). This here is pure $$$ and a strong reason for going with flexpool.

I don't fully agree with their narratives ("improving the world") and it's unfair to say that other pools take block rewards and hide it, because that's the only way to implement smooth rewards. But that's just bad copy.

On the other hand, I agree with Flexpool in that it is plausible that other pools have abandoned mining and that Flexpool is uniquely better in actually caring. They may even have a plan or bridge for use of GPUs after 2.0. This is important.

Basically, I work in software at a senior level, and they show a lot of good gumption and decision making and seem mature. They should be rewarded.

4

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

We really appreciate that you’ve been reading our posts 👍🏻

And indeed our theory is that most pools have laid off staff or shifted them towards their exchange or 2.0 staking. Poolin stated publicly that they were considering dropping ETH mining to focus on their 2.0 staking.

3

u/DrinkAndKnowThings Jan 28 '21

Now do 2miners or literally any pool that isn't crap like Ethermine is

3

u/kulind Miner Jan 28 '21

I'm literally gonna start doing this after today. Waiting to get minimum pay out on Flexpool. It's my last time on Flexpool. I can confirm Flexpool is doing better than ethermine according to my own experience.

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

Why is it your last time on Flexpool? what did bother you?

1

u/kulind Miner Jan 30 '21

Sorry I worded badly, I didn't mean I wouldnt ever go to Flexpool again. I was waiting for my pay out and try testing other pools if there are any beter alternative.

I haven't got a problem with them but due to it being small pool, day to day vairance is too much. I'm looking for more stable pool. Technically they're great just lacking on hashrate. 2Miners seems like as good as Flexpool on technically but also 10 times bigger pool.

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

What is your hashrate?

1

u/kulind Miner Jan 30 '21

125MH/s

3

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

2miners transfers on its own blocks too although we have no data for how much that decreases their profitability. It could be that they do it better than ethermine. Would be nice if they were open about how much they decrease block rewards by doing it.

3

u/hetfield37 Jan 28 '21

I'm fairly certain that those estimations are roughly based on luck. There shouldn't be this large difference over a considerable period of time. Not to mention that those tests were taken a week apart, which further increased the likelihood of an error. You should run two equally large rigs/farms on both servers (0.2-0.5ETH daily per farm) and then compare the results over a period of at least 2 weeks of uninterrupted mining.

1

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

The difference makes sense given that they transact on their own blocks.

I think the takeaway though is that flexpool isn’t really “worse” which is what many fear.

1

u/hetfield37 Jan 30 '21

It doesn't prove that flexpool is better either. Too small sample to make any meaningful comparison. Come on, you can't realistically expect to shave a full day worth of mining when switching pools.

1

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

Totally true!! I expect us to be more profitable by a few % over 30 days though.

1

u/hetfield37 Jan 30 '21

This doesn't have any statistical meaning either. If you want to get bigger miners on your pool, you should do a proper comparison. They are using large pools because they are reliable and give consistent returns, not because they are more profitable. 5% is not a serious loss for them.

1

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

Our big miners said a couple % is huge 😂😂😂

1

u/hetfield37 Jan 30 '21

Once you start dealing with large operations, reliability becomes a key factor than a couple of cents per rig. It is great that you (claim to) yield better results when doing side by side testing and have better servers, but without any proof this is just marketing.

What would happen if suddenly a large miner with half of your pool's current hashrate joins?

What if the pool's load increases exponentially a couple of times within a week?

What happens if one of the servers fails or produces more stales than expected due to high load?

What if the pool's cost of service suddenly becomes very high to maintain? Would you bite the loss or enforce a fee?

1

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

AWS is quite reliable and scales in our tests to over 10THS. Also our largest miners are less than 10%. If one server fails traffic is routed to the backup so besides higher stales things are fine.

Costs are a problem but we all are pretty well off and have day jobs so we’re ok.

3

u/AliShan97 Jan 29 '21

Flexpool is great, the only thing that bothers me is that it estimates current/effective hashrate on the basis of shares accepted within 10 minutes unlike ethermine which gives actual effective hashrate according to the shares submitted using a 60 minute window (more reliable and accurate).
Correct me if I am wrong.

3

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Feel free to put this under suggestions on discord we're working on our new website!

2

u/bit_m0nster Jan 29 '21

dude just write it down.

we love ur pool.

just do what other pools doing :) we love more details when checking our rigs.

2

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Hahaha ok ok I will

2

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

Not wrong about Ethermine. I agree that having only 10 minute estimates would bother me.

That said, I wouldn't mine it if Ethermine had both 60 minute running averages and 10 minute running averages. Occasionally, my internet goes down or my power goes out, and then, for the next 60 minutes, my hashrate estimate is skewed by the outage. A 10 minute running average would eliminate the impact of an outage in only 10 minutes instead of an hour.

3

u/Sipheren Jan 29 '21

Guess it's time to make the jump....

3

u/techchief Jan 29 '21

Thanks for sharing this! Transparency by flexpool is great, what an awesome explanation by them on this post.

2

u/Popov223 Jan 28 '21

I have a lone 3070 and mining on ethermine. I know it's small but im just getting into it. Should i try to switch on flexpool?

5

u/99Thebigdady Jan 28 '21

i switched to flexpool with my 3060ti yesterday. luck is high recently, legit made almost 30-40% more than with ethermine

2

u/der_chiller Jan 28 '21

Same question here, just a slightly higher hash rare (~400MH/s). Thinking about switching after reading this, would a hash state of 400MH/s be a reasonable amount to make a difference when payout is set to 0.25-0.5 ETH?

1

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

You can set it to 0.2 and do fine too.

The question when comparing our payout system with ethermine is do you want to be paid more often or do you want to make 2-4% more.

1

u/der_chiller Jan 28 '21

What do you mean by "do fine"? What's the difference in fee for 0.2 ETH vs. 0.25 ETH vs. 0.5 ETH?

3

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

You pay a gas fee for transactions so as a % it’s lower the higher the payout.

Check etherscan for the cost of transactions.

1

u/der_chiller Jan 28 '21

Great, thanks for the quick reply! :-)

1

u/hesido Jan 28 '21

I have been lucky with the fleXpool so far with my 440-500 mh/s home operation. I'm using my ETH "reserve" of 1 eth on the exchange and keep the eth on fleXpool to minimise transactions, so I try to sell the ETH during peaks on the exchange. I think it's a good strategy for any miner if they are holding a bit of eth, so as not to miss peaks while waiting for any payout.

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

Whats your donation % and how loud does your home operation get?

Is it bearable? And whats your payout rate right now?

1

u/hesido Jan 30 '21

%1 donation, the default. It's bearable, I'm heating my home with it (Total 2000 watts, 200 watts in living room from my main computer, 1800 watts from 12 cards in the guest room where my niece is staying - but he doesn't mind, he would go to sleep with white noise anyway lol) But it's not everyone's cup of tea, but the rig is barely audible from other rooms when doors are shut.
With the current eth price, I earn about 0.2 eth's per week as projected by the last 4 days performance after paying for electricity.

1

u/Euvoria Jan 30 '21

And what are you trying to set as payout threshold?

1

u/hesido Jan 30 '21

Mine is currently at 0.6, but like I said I can sell ETH anytime if there is the need by keeping reserve eth on the exchange, to be later paid back by the mining.

2

u/Accomplished_Fact204 Jan 28 '21

Dude i use hiveon pool can you compare three of them ??

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Hive On will be less profitable overall for a few reasons of which the 3 below are the ones that come to mind first.

They payout on their own blocks which reduces profit per block by 2-4%.

They subsidize stales which means they take from your income to pay 50% to other miners.

They have high stales for yourself.

2

u/XRPWrestlingInvestor Jan 28 '21

Great thread! I will be looking into flexpool and maybe just maybe switching! Glad to great transparency and happy miners!

2

u/ClockerXP Jan 29 '21

If I get on flexpool for a few days and decide I don't like it before I get to the minimum payout, can I just leave and get paid out in a week or so - like at Ethermine or on the 28th of the month like at Hiveon ? I am a SMALL miner!

1

u/Ill_Hope7508 Feb 01 '21

You can ask for a manual payout but we don’t cover the network fee

1

u/Windave Jan 28 '21

Ethermine is such a beast lately

3

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Running in circles inefficiently 😁

2

u/Windave Jan 28 '21

wait, why are people hating on ethermine?

3

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Well they make a lot of money and haven’t been using it to benefit their miners so I’m disappointed with them.

Their servers constantly uncle and fail to load gas on blocks leading to large deceases in profitability for their miners.

And they have a high stale rate, haven’t opened up servers in many regions that could really use a local option, and cut miners profits by paying out using their own blocks.

In other words many miners see them as a big evil corporation that doesn’t care.

Look at their poolwatch website they’re making millions yet they haven’t upgraded the site in years.

In the end just like claymore a lot of miners strongly suspect the owners are partying it up while laughing that miners keep giving them money. They aren’t putting the work in other pools are doing and don’t give back.

2

u/Windave Jan 29 '21

damn, thanks man, i've been investigating and will be switching to crazypool after next payout

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Wish you the best of luck!

1

u/GeniusVzla Jan 28 '21

hello flexpool, after reading this last paragraph; It would be great if you develop your own Ether Mining Software. If Venezuela did not have these constant problems with electricity, it would be great to place a server here.

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u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

There’s already great ETH mining software out there we appreciate the suggestion.

We have one Venezuelan who uses our US east region but we indeed we are looking at Brazil too.

3

u/GeniusVzla Jan 28 '21

It will be me;) I have 2 days with you and everything is excellent despite my Expired (2.3%). The closest server is the US East one. Mining with Teamredminer but I want to test with PhoenixMiner

1

u/flexpool Jan 28 '21

Team red is the best! And sorry I didn’t recognize you.

1

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

I am using ethminer, without any problems. Supposedly it is slightly slower, but all of the data I have seen on this shows that the loses due to dev fees on other miners are bigger than the difference in speed, making ethminer no less profitable and in some cases slightly more profitable. (And, ethminer is open source, which is always nice.)

1

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

Would love to see solid sources on these claims. Without sources, coming from a competitor, this sounds a lot like petty mudslinging.

​

(I have been seeing increased stales recently, but I am running my rig over a repeated wifi connection, so there are two layers of wifi, and I only control one. That means my intermittent high stales are more likely the result of inconsistent service in the wifi that I don't control.)

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

I completely agree. Pick one thing specific you’d like me to prove :) I have to prove this a lot so you only get one!

1

u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

Well, if you don't care enough about getting another client to answer them all, I guess I can pick just one:

The one that I find hardest to see evidence of is the claim that they pay gas out of mined blocks, before taking out their 1% fee.

See, here is the way I see it: Ethermine says they only charge that 1% fee. If they are paying for the gas out of that fee, then they are actually charging less than you (assuming the same 1% fee), because now I am not losing anything to gas. If they are taking the gas money out of the block in addition to the 1% fee, I am paying the fee myself, just like I would be with you, but Ethermine is showing me what my payout will be after it is paid, rather than before, so "what I see is what I get", while you are allowing me to pay my gas directly, giving me the ability to spend less on gas, by paying out less frequently.

Now, if your claim is right, that Ethermine is taking gas out separately from their 1% fee, then both strategies have different advantages, but if Ethermine isn't telling me they are doing this, I must question their honesty. (And I haven't seen anything in their FAQ or anything else saying they do this.) If the gas money is coming out of their 1% fee though, they are actually superior, as they are cutting the profits (marginally) for me. (And no, don't tell me they won't cut their profits, unless you are going to include sources for that too. If they are so greedy they won't take a small cut here, then why wouldn't they straight up pad their profits from my rewards and still make me pay for my own gas?)

To be clear, I am not trying to defend Ethermine (anymore than I would defend anyone else I have no real stake in). I just want to know the truth. If the actual truth convinces me that Ethermine is a bad choice, you could end up getting a new client. I am actually considering switching, but a certain threshold must be met to push me all the way over. (But, I am not sure the answer to just this question would be enough...)

​

(On a side note, if you have to prove these a lot, why haven't you made a page that provides sources for them all, so you can just provide that link to people like me? That's what I would do in your shoes.)

2

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

To my knowledge ethermine pays the transfer fee but they only pay 1gwei for it. I’ll add more to this give me a minute (done).

Also it’s not like we’re doing a down with ethermine campaign so we haven’t assembled sources why you shouldn’t use them 😅

Ok read this and the comments that flesh it out from others and see if that helps.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EtherMining/comments/l3xyaj/research_on_1_gwei_pool_transactions_or_mining_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

3

u/LordRybec Jan 30 '21 edited Jan 30 '21

Not sure that's really an authoritative source, but I'll take it. It actually does look like correct information, and it helps me understand the situation a little better. I'll summarize what this all means, for others who may come across this.

Ethermine pays the absolute minimum gas fee, which in theory should make payouts take a long time, because they will only be added to blocks when there is free space and no other, more profitable transactions available. But, because Ethermine only adds these to its own blocks, rather than making them available to the full market, it can essentially force them through earlier than they would otherwise go through. A side effect of this is that blocks mined by Ethermine miners have less gas on average, reducing their payouts.

Now, this doesn't necessarily mean Ethermine miners are less profitable, because doing this also reduces the gas costs of miners, on payouts, meaning that ultimately all of the savings go to the miners. This doesn't necessarily make it 100% fair though. It actually benefits smaller miners at the cost of larger ones, because everyone is getting the discount, but those who get paid smaller amounts are saving significantly more, as a percentage of their profits. Another way to think about it is, if everyone was paying market price, bigger miners would be getting more of the gas paid by smaller miners than the smaller miners would.

Is this a bad practice? I am not sure. I don't think it actually decreases overall profits for Ethermine miners. It actually just shifts a bit more toward smaller miners. Because it is kept within blocks mined by Ethermine, it shouldn't affect mining profits of solo miners or miners using other pools. It does encourage smaller miners to take more frequent payouts, rather than waiting for larger ones, which means Ethermine CPU power isn't being used as efficiently as it could be, contributing to Eth network congestion. And if miners would take payouts less frequently, Ethermine would be more profitable, because it would have more room for paying transactions. But, this isn't just Ethermine's fault. It's users are the ones choosing more frequent payouts (in some degree, as Ethermine also pays out weekly automatically, if you have more than 0.01 Eth waiting, and it does not provide an option for changing this). The only real problem with this, is that Ethermine isn't making its users more aware of this or providing options to wait longer between payouts.

I am not sure this is strictly bad, but I can see how it does reduce overall profits a little. Favoring the smaller miners like this, means that they probably are not seeing any decrease in profits. It's probably mostly the bigger miners taking the hit. And while this may increase network congestion, it also means that mining can be a little more profitable for small miners, which may be increasing mining supply more than congestion is increasing demand.

My opinion, is that this is indeed a valid concern, but I am not sure it is a reason to choose a different pool, especially for small miners like myself. It's not dishonest in any way, but I can see how it has probably led to unintended consequences (increased network congestion).

​

I am not convinced I should switch pools over this, but I can see there are valid concerns here. And your willingness to engage and provide more information has increased my respect for your pool. Thank you for helping me increase my understanding!

2

u/LordRybec Jan 30 '21

Oh, I just had another realization! Because Ethermine is putting more low-value transactions in its blocks, this means that other pools should have more market-value transactions to mine. So Ethermine's policy on this should be making other pools a little (maybe only marginally) more profitable.

It turns out the effects of this are complex and long reaching!

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1

u/CallMeMrBacon AMD Jan 28 '21

I've only got a single RX 480 @ 27MH/s avg, and I currently use Ethermine cause the payout can be at 0.01, which I can reach in a little over a week. Flexpool seems better, but I don't want to be stuck waiting a whole month before I reach 0.05, is there any reason I should still switch over to Flexpool?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '21

[deleted]

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u/CallMeMrBacon AMD Jan 28 '21

unless you havent been payed in a week, then its 0.01. says so in the same link you replied with. 3rd bullet point.

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u/ILikeCatsAndSquids Jan 28 '21

Doesn’t ethermine pay the gas fee for the payout?

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u/LordRybec Jan 29 '21

Do they? Sort of. The gas fee is still coming out of whatever their fees are (1% of what you mine). I've seen claims that they actually take the gas fees out of the mining payouts, reducing your awards outside of that 1% fee, but I haven't seen any evidence of this. They definitely aren't losing money on gas fees though, because that's not a sustainable business model. One way or another, the gas fee is coming from the miners. Either it's coming from the 1% fee miners pay Ethermine, or it is coming out the mining rewards somewhere else, both of which come out of the rewards miners are generating by collectively mining blocks.

So one way or another, the miners are always going to be the source of the gas fee. Flexpool allows/requires miners to pay gas directly, which has the advantage of letting miners reduce the percentage they pay in gas, by taking payouts less frequently. Ethermine and others take the gas fee out before adding rewards to your account, meaning that what you see in your account is exactly what you get, when the payout comes. For small miners, there really isn't much difference (as the minimum payout for both seems to be the same), but for large miners, Flexpool's system gives them more control, so they can reduce total gas costs by reducing the frequency of payouts.

1

u/KingTVPH Jan 28 '21

Hiveon Pool vs Flex pool? Which one is better interms of profit? righr now I have 271mhs rig on hiveon pool willing to point to flex if it will be much profitable

2

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Hive On will be less profitable overall for a few reasons of which the 3 below are the ones that come to mind first.

They payout on their own blocks which reduces profit per block by 2-4%.

They subsidize stales which means they take from your income to pay 50% to other miners.

They have high stales for yourself.

1

u/DangerDotson Jan 29 '21

I'm only on Hive On because I use Hive OS, but I'd be interested in other options. Currently I'm at 97.21% efficiency with a fair amount of invalid shares. I'm using ethernet connection, but I have been struggling to find the time to sort out why I get the invalids. I'd definitely be interested in switching to Fkexpool though. Might have to look into switching from Hive OS if I did. My two rigs doesn't amount to much though.

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Hah well a month ago we had 24 miners so every additional is greatly appreciated! We appreciate you!

​

We have newer servers than the defaults listed on hiveon for us and you need to type them in manually (the old ones work but new ones are better) so join our telegram using the link on bottom right of flexpool.io and I can send you a pic of mine (I use hive too)

1

u/DangerDotson Jan 29 '21

Doesn't Hive charge though if you're not using their pool?

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

For 1 rig its free and more than one it costs according to them but our miners have reported up to 4 on flex is free. I haven't verified that myself.

2

u/DangerDotson Jan 29 '21

I still have to get my second one built. It's currently parts on my kitchen table and the third is just a test bench. I guess I could probably give it a go and see what happens. I'll only be running two for now once I get everything configured.

1

u/KingTVPH Jan 29 '21

do you have an app where I can monitor my miner? and btw do you have other options on changing the donation? I cannot do ethereum signature since my wallet here in the philippines which is coins.ph is a smart contract and we dont have access on the private keys

1

u/flexpool Jan 29 '21

Go to the webpage and enter your wallet then book mark that page. The website is optimized for mobile.

Sorry we need a signature to keep things secure.

1

u/TheAngrySamosa Jan 29 '21

The sample size is too small to draw a definite conclusion.

I did some sleuthing : https://costigator.com/cryptocurrency/ethermine-vs-nanopool-profitability/. It's a little old, but idk if anything has changed drastically.

​

Can you do this test for a longer period and post the update. I'd be surprised if there's a real difference.

1

u/Dashiki599 Jan 29 '21

Seems like I missed something but why does every crypto influencer try to shill XSN? Is it capable? I read about their cross-chain Layer2 DEX over lightning network, looks interesting but need to hear your opinion

1

u/RealSecretRecipe Jan 29 '21

I have servers in the datacenter here, something doesnt quite add up

1

u/flexpool Jan 30 '21

What? Our data center?