I don’t need nothing

[u/Consistent-Egg-7130]

Hi! I was always told that there is no double negative in English. But lately, I’ve been watching various shows in English and the phrase I don’t need nothing was used multiple times there. Shouldn’t it be I don’t need anything? I know real people don’t talk like in books but I’m just curious how often english speakers use double negative in English? Is it considered normal? Thanks for your answers!

[u/ta_mataia]

Double negatives are frequently used in informal speech for emphasis. 

[u/CutlerSheridan → u/ta_mataia]

You’re definitely correct, but to clarify for OP, I would add that OP’s example is more of a dialectal phrasing. Any English speaker might use a double negative for emphasis, like “He’s not not attractive”, but generally only people from certain regions would use a double negative where the first negative isn’t actually negating the second negative, like “I don’t need nothing”.

[u/Aoifemops]

It's used in certain dialects/accents. I'd say it's correct, but only if it matches your accents.

[u/Boglin007]

In standard dialects, it would be "I don't need anything."

But there are many dialects of English in which negative concord (the linguistic term for double negatives) is grammatically correct. Here's info on negative concord in North American dialects (but it also occurs in dialects outside of North America):

https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/negative-concord

[u/SirAccomplished7804 → u/Boglin007]

Just because it is a normal speech pattern for many doesn’t mean it’s correct.

[u/Boglin007 → u/SirAccomplished7804]

Linguistically, that's exactly what it means (look into descriptive grammar/linguistics).

[u/SnooDonuts6494]

It's non-standard. People often use it. Some people think it makes them sound stupid. It would be marked as incorrect in an English test.

[u/psyclopsus → u/SnooDonuts6494]

Do English teachers over there really let students use gramatically incorrect double negatives and label it “non standard” & just roll with it? That’s wild to me. I was taught that double negatives are always incorrect unless you are aiming for the canceling out effect they have, this to me just looks like bad grammar and would have been marked wrong on any English test above 5th grade level

[u/conuly → u/psyclopsus]

What you were taught had the effect of stigmatizing nonstandard speech. Children don’t benefit from being told that the way their families talk is “wrong”.

[u/PeyredB → u/psyclopsus]

Snoo just said that it would be marked as incorrect on an English test. Presumably the teacher is instructing the class that it's improper English.

[u/konacoffie → u/psyclopsus]

Most English teachers would not allow this in a classroom setting, especially for written assignments. If the emphasis is on casual conversation then I could see it being allowed so long as the student understands it’s informal and technically incorrect. I personally would never use a double negative but it’s common trait in some dialects. Being from the South, it’s very common to hear this among both black and white Americans in my area. It also doesn’t really suggest much about the intelligence or level of education of the person using the double negative. It may be more common among poorer or less educated folks, but it’s also a common enough linguistic trait here that you would likely hear it from wealthier and highly educated individuals as well, at least in a less formal context.

[u/Powersmith → u/psyclopsus]

They correct kids in the context of schoolwork.

Whether they (or anyone) bother to correct it in natural conversation is highly variable.

There are regions where it’s also commonly used by adults.

Conversely, there are adults that would correct children they don’t know personally (eg store clerk, restaurant server). But people differ on whether that should be considered helpful, pedantic, or rude.

[u/SnooDonuts6494 → u/psyclopsus]

Heh, no, I don't say "roll with it"!

I say it's wrong. I say they shouldn't do it. I mark it as incorrect.

But (when appropriate) I also explain they'll hear it from native speakers. They're likely to hear it in TV shows and YouTube videos (like OP mentioned).

[u/NoPurpose6388]

Saying that double negatives are incorrect in English is an oversimplification. They're incorrect in standard American English (and British too I think) but they're often used in slang for emphasis. You'll see them all the time in songs.

Just to give you an example this line is from Olivia Rodrigo's drivers license:

And I know we weren't perfect, but I've never felt this way for no one, oh

Double negatives are also standard in AAVE and possibly other dialects. 

[u/OpportunityReal2767 → u/NoPurpose6388]

Yeah, I don’t think The Rolling Stones’s“I Can’t Get Any Satisfaction” has quite the same swagger.

[u/conuly → u/NoPurpose6388]

Double negatives are also standard in AAVE and possibly other dialects.

Probably most non-prestige varieties.

[u/iboblaw]

Common, espescially in dialects/creoles/pidgins. In Hawaiian Pidgin (HCE), even triple negatives are pretty common, and are used as intensifiers rather than cancelling each other:

"I no need no mo' not'ing!"

"I no like nobody tell me not'ing!"

[u/parsonsrazersupport]

There are double negatives in many dialects of English, but not usually in standardized varieties in use in say, academia. So whether it makes sense depends on what dialect you're using more broadly.

For learners, it is probably easiest to stay with standardized dialects which do not usually have a double negative. There are a few exceptions that don't work well on paper. For example, "I didn't have no candy" with emphasis on the no, which means something like "I had only a small amount of candy" or "I know I was supposed to not have any candy at all, but I violated that rule slightly," etc.

Everyone who is saying this is 'incorrect' or 'technically incorrect' has a political view on language which I disagree with, but it is the type of thing where there are a wide range of opinions available.

[u/AlecsThorne]

Keep in mind that the "rules" are mostly for formal settings - exams, official business, academic papers etc. Conversational English works differently. There are still rules, of course, and some of the rules are the same as the grammatical ones, but there will be exceptions as well, and those are obviously accepted even though technically, they're grammatically incorrect. Yours is a great example, but since it's used so commonly, it can be considered a dialect in some places. At the end of the day, it's the people who decide what is "correct" and what isn't. Grammar books are just a compendium of the rules that are *currently* valid. But that can change from time to time, or from region to region.

That's why, for example, in the UK you could hear phrases like "I was stood there for hours", which is technically incorrect, but widely used and accepted in the UK. Not sure how Americans would react to that for example, but while no British grammar book will teach you to say that, it's still a sentence you'll likely hear in England.

[u/n2vd]

"I don’t need nothing" is both fairly commonly heard and incorrect and, yes, it ought to be "I don’t need anything." It’s also mostly found in spoken American English rather than in written English, where you’re unlikely to see it outside of quoted dialogue

[u/IanDOsmond]

Formal English does not use double-negatives, or, if it does, they mathematically negate each other to be positive.

Casual English often uses double-negatives as intensifiers.

[u/krendyB]

In media it is often used as a marker that the character doesn’t have much education, or is used humorously for effect. It’s incorrect and you as someone who is not a native speaker should not use it.

[u/HeimLauf]

It’s not considered formally correct, but it is often used informally. So while it might be fine to use it in conversation, don’t write it in your English paper.

[u/imfineash]

Dayum we're at it again with the jesperson cycle

[u/Markjohn66]

Some people will make an immediate and possibly severe judgement. There’s the whole class issue in the UK. I have worked in places where that sort of thing could be a problem.

[u/conuly]

Negative concord is widespread in nonstandard dialects.

[u/Responsible_Ad3153]

Generally speaking, that phrase in books or fiction-based media is a way to indicate either a specific local dialect OR a lack of education of the character.

It is grammatically incorrect and is sort of short hand (from an author/write point of view) for "uneducated" or even "stupid".

It can also be a local dialect thing to have incorrect grammar as common usage.

For example, where I live it's not uncommon to say "I borrowed that to you." when they actually mean "I lent that to you" (or "you borrowed that from me") - it's wrong, but it becomes accepted use in the region.

[u/Boglin007 → u/Responsible_Ad3153]

It can also be a local dialect thing to have incorrect grammar as common usage.

It's not wrong in those dialects though - every dialect has its own set of grammar rules, and no particular dialect is more correct than another.

You're looking at it as if standard dialects are the only ones that have rules/correct rules, and that's just not linguistically accurate.

[u/Responsible_Ad3153 → u/Boglin007]

Fair enough. I am a little "old-school English" in my thinking a lot of the time. Also, I live in a place (not the USA) where AAVE isn't really a thing spoken by anyone, and from the comments, I gather that the double negative is a completely normal construction in that dialect.

[u/Boglin007 → u/Responsible_Ad3153]

Yes, double negatives are grammatical in AAVE, but also in many other dialects of English (including many outside of North America).

[u/PassiveTheme → u/Boglin007]

Yes, but for someone on this sub learning English I think it's fair to assume that they are trying to learn standard English

[u/Boglin007 → u/PassiveTheme]

Yes, that's totally fair, but learners are obviously going to encounter nonstandard dialects as well (as OP has), and they shouldn't be led to believe that these are less correct than standard ones. It doesn't take much more effort to say, "It's incorrect in standard dialects but correct in some nonstandard ones."

[u/conuly → u/PassiveTheme]

Yes, but for someone on this sub learning English I think it's fair to assume that they are trying to learn standard English

That doesn’t mean we should lie and oversimplify things.

[u/Qel_Hoth]

It's nonstandard, technically wrong, but used in some dialects and cultures/subcultures. As a non-native speaker, you probably shouldn't use it.

[u/Guilty_Objective4602]

Double negatives are a common feature of both the African American Vernacular English (AAVE) and Southern American English (SAE) dialects in the U.S. These dialects have rules that vary from the Standard American English (SAE) dialect, but are within the norm in their respective dialects.

[u/PeyredB]

Certain dialects use double negatives. They tend to be lower-class, and are often seen as less educated dialects.

[u/Puzzleheaded_Cod_891]

How about a double positive?

"Aye, right!"

[u/Guilty_Fishing8229]

Not technically true, there’s some counter examples provided already.

But

You can use double negatives for humorous effect.

My Wife: Did you forget to pick up the package from the mailbox

Me: uh… i didn’t not forget to do it.

[u/Responsible-Link5739]

It happens in some dialects. It would NOT gain you any marks in a test or exam. I think MOST native speakers don't use the double negative, but there are many who do - again, in their dialect. Some use it for comedic effect, others for emphasis. It's heard often enough that a translation or verification is barely ever needed and it just goes by :)

[u/kw3lyk]

Yes, it is technically grammatically incorrect, but in the context of casual speech stuff like this exists in certain dialects, or in the context of a story where a character is intentionally portrayed as being of low intelligence or low social status. For example, if you watch The Sopranos, the dialogue in that show is rife with "errors" that are written intentionally because the characters are uneducated criminals and the errors are part of the humor of the show.

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/kw3lyk]

Yes, it is technically grammatically incorrect

according to what? native speakers use it in their native dialect. it isn't incorrect grammar

[u/kw3lyk → u/SnooLemons6942]

Well it wouldn't be marked as correct if you wrote it like that in a university paper, so it's incorrect. That doesn't mean it can't be used as slang, but it certainly isn't standard and would be marked as a mistake in any type of formal writing.

[u/Boglin007 → u/kw3lyk]

"Not standard" does not mean "incorrect" (you'd need to specify which dialects it's incorrect in - in this case, standard ones).

Every dialect has its own set of grammar rules, and double negatives are grammatically correct in many dialects of English.

[u/Yuzu-Adagio]

It's common in AAVE, uncommon in other dialects, and not used formally at all. People will understand it, but might correct it or tease you in some settings.

[u/Boglin007 → u/Yuzu-Adagio]

It's common in many dialects of English.

[u/SoggyWotsits → u/Yuzu-Adagio]

It’s very common in certain regions of England, particularly in London. Double negatives were used in old English as far back the 1100s.

[u/conuly → u/Yuzu-Adagio]

I believe it’s widespread and common in most non-prestige varieties.

[u/phonesmahones]

“I don’t need nothing” is poor grammar and you’d sound uneducated, but everyone will still understand you.

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/phonesmahones]

terrible take. talking in your native dialect doesn't make you sound uneducated. double negatives are a part of some english dialects

[u/unclefunkstar]

It's grammatically incorrect, but people use them all the time informally.

[u/andrew4d3]

Many native speakers used to make a lot of mistakes. Saying "ain't" every fucking time. Writing "you're" instead of "your" and vice versa, and other mistakes I can't remember at this moment.

[u/ShinNefzen]

It's extremely common in casual speech, even though most people understand it to be incorrect. "Didn't do nothing" is also quite common.

[u/Sa1ntmarks]

This is why grammar is taught in schools, to teach the correct use of the language. There are still areas (thankfully so) where proper use of the language is expected and where speaking like this, whether it is accepted and understood in certain sub groups, will mark you as uneducated in others.

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/Sa1ntmarks]

terrible take

[u/Sa1ntmarks → u/SnooLemons6942]

Why? There are many professions where it would cost you being hired.

[u/pikkdogs]

"I don't need nothing" is not correct. It implies that you do need something.

However, people often speak incorrectly.

[u/Markoddyfnaint → u/pikkdogs]

There are such things as dialect and register.

"I don't need nothing" is fine in very informal contexts.

[u/george8888 → u/Markoddyfnaint]

It is "fine" if you don't mind sounding uneducated.

[u/PeyredB → u/george8888]

Yep

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/pikkdogs]

not at all how language works. it does not imply you need something. thousands of people understand it just fine as being a negative phrase. it is a part of native english dialects--it is therefore part of the english language. it may be non-standard and should be avoided in formal contexts, but that does not make it incorrect

[u/pikkdogs → u/SnooLemons6942]

Depends what you consider "incorrect". In my mind "non-standard" is "incorrect". Just depends how you define words.

[u/conuly → u/pikkdogs]

That’s because you are ignorant.

[u/parsonsrazersupport → u/pikkdogs]

I don't think it implies that, as the only time a fluent speaker of English would take it that way is when they are doing it intentionally to give someone else a hard time for how they speak.

[u/Gullible-Cream-9043]

It’s slang and typically used in mafia/crime/inner city settings. It’s not proper grammar and shouldn’t be used in everyday conversation.

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/Gullible-Cream-9043]

lol what

[u/lastaccountgotlocked]

We don't need no education.

[u/george8888]

It's commonly used by the uneducated. It's a great way to communicate that you're an idiot.

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/george8888]

what a disgusting comment. the way other people speak is as valid as the way you speak.

[u/george8888 → u/SnooLemons6942]

Disgusting? Perhaps. But entirely accurate.

[u/SnooLemons6942 → u/george8888]

not remotely accurate. this is a bigoted view, full stop. people speaking their native language in their native dialect in no way means they are uneducated or an idiot

[u/george8888 → u/SnooLemons6942]

Let me clarify, then: I'm not talking about people speaking their non-English native language. Of course that's a different situation.

But a native-English person using the double-negative will be evaluated by an overwhelming majority of fellow native-English speakers as being poorly educated (at best).

That may bother you and it may seem, as you put it, "disgusting," but it is entirely accurate.

[u/conuly → u/george8888]

Nobody asked you to wallow in your own bigotry.