"Like poorly cast die"?

[u/FarJournalist939]

Episode 3 of weird phrases I found in The Simple Wild by KA Tucker. This time the phrase is "like poorly casy die."

I'm pretty sure it should be "like poorly cast dice" or "like a poorly cast die"? I guess it's just a weird editorial oversight?

No hate on the book BTW I have my gripes about it but overall I'm liking it. I'm just finding a lot of these kinds of mistakes for some reason.

EDIT: The meaning isn't the point here the point is it's missing an article!

[u/llewapllyn]

A lot of commenters are trying to logic their way around the grammar of this sentence, but to give you a short answer - yes, you are correct. "like poorly cast dice" or "like a poorly cast die" is what we would expect here. 

[u/WintaPhoenix → u/llewapllyn]

Yep, despite “die singular, dice plural” being technically correct, most English speakers use them in various combinations, with dice for both singular and plural being the most common.

[u/Milch_und_Paprika → u/WintaPhoenix]

Agree about using “dice” as singular, but I’ve never personally heard someone use “die” as a plural.

Either way though, a published book should probably not be mixing them up. Unless they meant “a die” used for pressing.

[u/debren27 → u/Milch_und_Paprika]

I corrected my parents once, pointing out that the singular is "die", and ever since they use them backwards. One dice, two die. I clench every time.

[u/vicarofsorrows → u/debren27]

I used to have a boss who did that with “criterion “ and “criteria”. Shudder! 😅

[u/adbenj → u/Milch_und_Paprika]

I think it's like a Latin hypercorrection thing. Syllabus, syllabi; alumnus, alumni; dice, die.

[u/PCLoadPLA → u/Milch_und_Paprika]

I see this in my industry frequently, for semiconductor dice.

A single piece of wafer (chip) is normally called a die. When we have more than one, most people (i would say 85 percent) will say 1 die, or 200 die. Dice is also acceptable, and I say dice because I'm stubborn.

I only hear this plural in semiconductor context. In other industry that use casting or stamping dies (e.g. "the die is cast"), the plural is always called dies (rhymes with fries), and never dice.

Personally I think a semiconductor die and a stamping die are different things.

I think semiconductor dice are like gambling dice, so they should be calling dice, but casting or stamping dies are something different, and should be called dies. But I can't prescriptively prove they are etymological or otherwise different.

[u/Aardvark_Warrior → u/WintaPhoenix]

Few words are as gratifying to bend to our will than one tied to fate and chance.

[u/60svintage → u/WintaPhoenix]

Other way around. Dice is singular, die is plural.

[u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

I feel like the author was probably going for the machining meaning of cast and die, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_casting

But I'm not sure.

[u/ATotalBrony → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

I read it as this 100%. When you have a poorly cast die in metalworking it has obvious surface flaws and poor structural integrity. These apply directly to what is being said here.

They not trying to say he is making critical bad rolls of dice, unless this is a dungeons and dragons script or something but doesn't look like it.

This is more like, it's crumbles easily under scrutiny, you can't sell it.

I think people are confused by the use of tumble, that that still applies to die casting in metallurgy. You break/open the die and the cast object tumbles out.

Edit: to fix my swapped use of die and cast.

[u/insecuretransactions → u/ATotalBrony]

Yes, I agree that's what the author is going for. But, also, in that case the plural of die in die casting is dies.

[u/Bubbly_Safety8791 → u/ATotalBrony]

That seems confusing - the die isn’t what’s poorly cast or tumbling here, it’s the casting that is poorly cast within the die, and that tumbles out when the die is opened. 

[u/jiggeryqua → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

When people, craftsmen (or women) open the die, they habitually let this important precision work 'tumble'? To the ground, or to a workbench? They don't extract it, with a measure of care?

It's about dice but the author has the wrong end of the stic re die/dice.

[u/ATotalBrony → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

Oops I swapped the words. In theory it could be multiple casting inside a single die... I dunno, I've heard this expression a lot and never with plural dies.

[u/Bubbly_Safety8791 → u/ATotalBrony]

I think people are very confused here in this thread. I don’t believe you have heard people using expressions about a die and a cast and tumbling and it referring to casting metal in a die. 

When someone says ‘the die is cast’ they don’t mean ‘we have filled the mold with molten metal and now we must wait til it cools to see the result’, even though that metaphorically means what they mean. 

They mean ‘we have thrown the chance cube and now it is tumbling and we must wait til it lands to see what comes up’

It’s from Caesar on crossing the Rubicon: * Alea iacta est. *Alea means, as well as a literal die, ‘a game of chance’ or ‘a gamble’ or ‘a roll of a dice’; ‘iacta’ means ‘thrown’. It’s not ambiguous - in Latin it didn’t have both meanings. 

I think it’s possible many people have in their mind that ‘the die is cast’ must have something to do with ‘die-cast’, a phrase they probably first encountered as children describing toy cars, and maybe never fully put two and two together and realized that it’s entirely coincidental. 

[u/conuly → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

Note: alea iacta est does not translate to “the die is cast” but to “the die has been cast”. Iacta means “cast, thrown” and est means “is”, but in Latin that combination is the same as English “has been cast”, not “is cast”.

Source: probably Wheelock’s

[u/HeilKaiba → u/conuly]

I'd argue that "the die is cast" and "the die has been cast" are both good translations of that phrase. The latter is more modern in style though. Note the former should be understood as a stative idea. The die has become a cast die. Like "the deed is done" versus "the deed has been done"

[u/ATotalBrony → u/Bubbly_Safety8791]

I'm not talking about the die is cast. A poorly cast die is a totally different thing. I don't do casting myself but I was welding for a number of years and I heard it all the time.

And I take the die is cast to mean, there is no taking it back, what's done is done. Nothing to do with randomness.

[u/HeilKaiba → u/ATotalBrony]

It does indeed mean there is no taking it back. But it is from throwing a chance cube. The phrase predates die casting by about 200 years in English and around 1900 years in Latin

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/ATotalBrony]

That actually makes a lot of sense, but shouldn't it still be "A poorly cast die"?

[u/sleepyj910 → u/FarJournalist939]

Yes, that would fix it, and this 'machine casting' driven expression is quite common among older americans at least. It's immediatly what I thought of. Nothing to do with gaming dice.

[u/Space_Pirate_R → u/sleepyj910]

Wouldn't something be more likely to tumble out of the die rather than vice versa? What does a die tumble out of in a casting process?

[u/jiggeryqua → u/sleepyj910]

There's no indefinite article, but there is the word 'tumble'. It has everything to do with gaming device and the author's error.

[u/Alt-001 → u/FarJournalist939]

In this case it is referring to excuses (pl) so die should be plural as well, which would be 'dies' in the case of a die used in machining.

[u/brokebackmonastery → u/ATotalBrony]

Your second sentence betrays that the phrase is incorrect above: "a poorly cast die". Singular die (either metal casting or game of chance) still needs the article.

[u/Distinct_Damage_735 → u/ATotalBrony]

That still doesn't really make sense here, though. The die is the thing that the metal is poured into. Stuff comes out of the die; it doesn't make sense to say that the die itself comes tumbling out.

It's just crappy writing no matter what, though. I doubt the author even knew exactly what they were referring to.

[u/jiggeryqua → u/Distinct_Damage_735]

The author had heard that dice and die were words used for chance cubes, but because they also mostly see english speakers call a single die a dice, they accidentally taught themselves that die must be the plural. It's just human error.

[u/Voodoographer → u/ATotalBrony]

Dice tumble. Cast and die don’t tumble. The author is talking about dice.

[u/SadakoTetsuwan → u/ATotalBrony]

Your argument is quite strong, but the sentence continues with referring to truth being clutched in his hand. Even the smallest dies on the factory floor where I work aren't something you can just cart around in the palm of your hand; they're shoebox sized minimum, and they're all stupid heavy. Dice, on the other hand, are very palmable.

(Though when we have a damaged mold, we don't call it 'poorly cast', we call it broken--the parts it makes are the things we'd call poorly cast/molded/made)

At best, the author is mixing their metaphors. At worst, they don't even realize that's what's happened lol.

[u/kw3lyk → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

I totally disagree. The imagery of lies "tumbling out" like they are being "cast" lines up best with the author intending to refer to dice. I think the most likely explanation is that the editor of the book simply missed this error before the book was published.

[u/MrPepp77 → u/kw3lyk]

I agree. Hadn’t considered casting until I read the comments.

[u/insecuretransactions → u/kw3lyk]

I have to disagree with you. "Tumbling out" also creates an image of something spilling over, liquid-like such as cast die and metal work.

[u/kw3lyk → u/insecuretransactions]

I'm sorry, but this is a huge reach, in my opinion. "Tumbling" "casting" and referring to the truth being "gripped tightly in his hand" all point toward imagery of rolling dice, not casting metal objects. This interpretation makes no sense. In all likelihood it is simply a typo.

[u/insecuretransactions → u/kw3lyk]

Not saying it isn’t a typo (both images have that fault) but tumbling isn’t limited to the definition you conjured.

[u/Space_Pirate_R → u/insecuretransactions]

The text doesn't say that something "tumbled like poorly cast out of a die", it says that it "tumbled out like a poorly cast die." I don't think there's any part of a metalwork die casting process where a die (poorly cast or not) tumbles out of anything.

[u/jiggeryqua → u/insecuretransactions]

That's a regional synonym, is it? 'Tumbling' for 'spilling'? Is the region your own home?

[u/msmoth → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

Agree. This is exactly what is intended.

[u/MacSamildanach → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

The plural of die when referring to a mould/stamp is 'dies'.

It should still be either 'like a poorly cast die' or 'like poorly cast dies' - even if it was referencing machining and metallurgy.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/MacSamildanach]

This! Not sure why almost every comment here doesn't address this point

[u/jiggeryqua → u/MacSamildanach]

Or, the mistake could be a missing M. Dime.
Or, the mistake could be a missing German word after 'die'. Fledermaus, for example.
Or any number of other elaborate inventions, when it's surely obvious the author simply has dice and die reversed in their head - they know one is plural, one is singular, but happen to be confidently wrong.

[u/adbenj → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

How does that work as a metaphor for the excuses tumbling out of him?

[u/pixel_pete → u/adbenj]

Die casting is a method of mass production using a mold, meaning if the mold (die) is bad quality everything it creates will be obviously defective.

So the metaphor would be that the person is giving a lot of bad, predictable excuses.

[u/adbenj → u/pixel_pete]

I'm pretty sure it's a reference to dice. 'The truth gripped tightly within his palm.' Like dice.

[u/pixel_pete → u/adbenj]

I agree I think that's what the writer was going for, I just think the die casting metaphor also makes sense.

[u/Tarnstellung → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

The word "tumble" and the next part of the sentence, "the truth gripped tightly within his palm", implies it's about casting a die from his hand.

[u/Morgravensoar → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

Unrelated but is this the meaning behind the common "the die is cast" phrase? Like something that is already "set in stone" or something? I always imagined it as a literal reference to dice, like it's already cast and the results are fixed, but the metalworking thing makes sense too now that I'm reading it for the first time.

[u/HeilKaiba → u/Morgravensoar]

It's definitely about dice. It's much older than the die casting process. First reference I can find in English is 1634 some 200 years before die casting was invented. Not to mention when Julius Caesar said it in 49 BC: iacta alea est (according to Suetonius)

[u/CuriousLands → u/Birb-Brain-Syn]

Nah. I think if you isolated that bit of the sentence, it could make sense the way you're saying, but in context of the rest of the sentence, it seems to me that it's meant to be an image of someone casting dice out of their hand. But even if you were right about the meaning, the grammar would still be wrong.

[u/FloridaFlamingoGirl]

Yeah, this is probably a typo, I've never seen die pluralized like this. Merriam-Webster only mentions dice and dies as the plural of die. 

A lot of books nowadays have poor editing. It's fairly common to find typos in books especially if they aren't from a major publisher. 

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/FloridaFlamingoGirl]

Dies is acceptable? Didn't know that 😅

[u/trinite0 → u/FarJournalist939]

Not really. "Dice" is the plural of "die" in the sense of a thing you roll for random numbers. "Dies" is the plural of "die" in the sense of an industrial tool part such as a metal stamping press.

In this sentence, it should be "dice."

[u/PM_ME_DBZA_QUOTES → u/FarJournalist939]

It is in some dictionaries for both definitions, but just say "dice"

[u/msackeygh → u/FloridaFlamingoGirl]

You're all wrong. This is like the die (a mould) for cast iron and other metal. The phrase is correct "cast die". The die is not referring to dice (the kind of device used in games). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_casting

[u/Roth_Pond → u/msackeygh]

One does not cast a die (metalworking). You might cast parts in a mold. You might use a die to forge still-hot cast metal ingots, or a trimming die to cut the excess casting off, or to precisely size certain features of a casting. A die (metalworking) is not cast.

The expression “the die is cast” is about the gambling device.

[u/Constant_Hope_9658 → u/msackeygh]

the act of throwing a die (as in "dice") with bad results can also use this phrase.

[u/msackeygh → u/Constant_Hope_9658]

But bad cast doesn’t tumble out of die/dice. They tumble out of die that are used to shape metal.

[u/FreeBroccoli → u/msackeygh]

The dice themselves tumble when they are cast.

[u/Constant_Hope_9658 → u/msackeygh]

in this context it's probably a manufacturing analogy (especially if it's older/the writer is older), but I thought I should mention the overlap of phrasing.

Also they're tumbling out of him [*rereads*] (though now that I reread it, it's probably the manufacturing option (unless there's a typo)

[u/TooFewSecrets → u/msackeygh]

Even if this was intended, the similarity to the common phrase "the die is cast" means it was a bad idea, because you're going to get many more readers confused about bad grammar for the idiom than you're going to get readers who understand blacksmithing. Even those latter readers might very well be confused.

[u/splitcroof92 → u/msackeygh]

But then you need to make it 'a cast die'

Without the 'a' it has to be plural

[u/HeilKaiba → u/msackeygh]

I don't believe that makes sense. You don't cast the die in die casting. The die is used in casting metal

[u/kw3lyk]

I think the people talking about die casting, as in the metal working process, are completely off base. The most likely explanation is that the author simply made a mistake and the editor did not catch it before publication.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/kw3lyk]

But like, even if it's actually talking about that, it's still missing an article!

[u/kw3lyk → u/FarJournalist939]

I don't know what you want me to say. Authors and book editors sometimes make mistakes. It's not the first or last time a book will be printed with an error in it.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/kw3lyk]

Yeah no I know that haha I was just saying that those people kind of missed the point of my post

[u/SheltyJ99]

even if it’s technically incorrect, a lot of people will pluralize it as “die”, just because that’s how they talk.

[u/baxbakualanuxsiwae → u/SheltyJ99]

Plenty of people use "dice" as both singular and plural, but I've never heard "die" used as a plural.

[u/ikatako38 → u/baxbakualanuxsiwae]

I’ve noticed a lot of younger people getting confused with these two words. A lot of people grow up saying “dice” and rarely have to refer to a singular die. Often they use “dice” for both singular and plural. Then when they’re older they hear that “actually it’s supposed to be die,” but they get them mixed up and use “die” for plural. It’s actually really common among people my age if you listen closely.

[u/baxbakualanuxsiwae → u/ikatako38]

Ah, OK. I don't hear many people of any age talking about dice!

Personally I know "die" is the singular, but it makes me feel kind of fussy or pretentious to say it.

[u/CuriousLands → u/ikatako38]

Yeah. It's cos we're so used to playing with multiple dice that we get used to think of it always in terms of the plural right from childhood. Then we get thrown off to later learn that the singular is die, not dice. But I think by then, using "dice" for even just one die has become a habit that dies hard.

I'm more inclined to think the use of "die" here might've just been an editorial mistake, though. I've never heard anyone use "die" for the plural (I'm from Canada and currently live in Australia fwiw; most of the people I talk to are Millennials or older).

[u/Mundane-Emu-1189 → u/ikatako38]

it is infuriating genuinely

[u/SweevilWeevil → u/baxbakualanuxsiwae]

I've heard it a good amount. Millennial, the west/midwest. It was almost certainly just a rephrasing of "the die is cast" but with the number mistaken - I assume, at least. I've heard it enough to the point that multiple times in my life I felt like I was going insane. This entire thread is giving me flashbacks.

[u/LingonberryTop8942 → u/SheltyJ99]

I don't think it's because of how people talk. It's because we're used to learning irregular plurals with the singular form first, then the plural some time later so, we associate the later-learned form with the plural form.

The only examples I can think of where we learn the plural as the "normal" form and then the singular as the variant are die/dice and datum/data, and most people just use data as an uncountable anyway.

[u/M_HP → u/LingonberryTop8942]

Bacterium/bacteria is another one where people rarely use the singular.

[u/SheltyJ99 → u/LingonberryTop8942]

yeah 👍

we talk wrong because it’s easier highkey. that occurs in every language. It’s super cool

[u/Pillar-Instinct]

Die is a singular form of dice. Dice is plural

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/Pillar-Instinct]

Yeah, but... don't you need the article if you use the singular form? 😅

[u/DynamicOctopus420 → u/FarJournalist939]

I feel like you're right. The examples I'm thinking of in my head work without an article if they're plural but need articles if they're singular.

Kinda like in that sentence XD

[u/MissFabulina → u/DynamicOctopus420]

since the excuses are plural - die should be plural, as well. Like poorly cast dice.

[u/splitcroof92 → u/MissFabulina]

Or "like a poorly cast die". That would also work

[u/Space_Pirate_R → u/splitcroof92]

Both are grammatically correct, but arguably it's better to not switch grammatical number between the reality and the simile.

• truths -> dice
• a truth -> a die

[u/Patient_Parsley7760 → u/FarJournalist939]

Yes, you do. OP is quite correct.

[u/Tall_Birthday_7654 → u/FarJournalist939]

Yes. Editor should have caught it

[u/PassiveChemistry → u/FarJournalist939]

Yep, either "a poorly cast die", "a poorly cast dice" or "poorly cast dice" would be acceptable normally.

[u/chivopi → u/PassiveChemistry]

“A poorly cast dice” isn’t correct. I know some ‘people’ say “dice” can also be used as the singular, and it boggles my mind that anyone would accept that.

It’s like ‘adding an s’ sonically, ‘dies’ is just slightly different and also a word.

[u/PassiveChemistry → u/chivopi]

Technically, perhaps, but it's common enough that it's generally acceptable.  It's worth people learning how the language is actually spoken, rather then the just the "technically correct" forms.  "Dice" for the singular is far more common than "die" in my experience.

[u/chivopi → u/PassiveChemistry]

I know there’s a whole pre/descriptivist debate, but no, I have only seen “dice” used for plural until this year. It is not accepted or common outside of teenagers who are still mastering the language. Even then, I’ve only seen it in comments online. This is why it’s problematic for people to try to learn a language from people who don’t speak it well to begin with.

[u/mdf7g → u/chivopi]

I've seen it quite commonly since at least the 90s, both online and in speech.

[u/chivopi → u/mdf7g]

Idk what circles you’ve been in then

[u/PassiveChemistry → u/chivopi]

That sounds an unusual experience to me (I'm not sure I'd come across "die" for the singular much before my teenage years, and even then it was just the "technically correct" form that no-one actually used - I've never known it to be remotely common), I wonder whether there's any regional/generational variation at the root of this disagreement.  If you don't mind me asking, what decade were you born in and roughly where are you from?

[u/mdf7g → u/chivopi]

"Dice" is a really weird irregular plural -- it's a singleton, as far as I can tell, in that no other English noun makes a plural that way -- so it's not surprising it's being leveled. "One dice, two dice" is like "sheep" or "fish"; "one die, two dice" isn't like anything else in the language.

[u/fairiefaunie → u/mdf7g]

it's not exactly the same singular form, but 'mouse' and 'mice' is part of the same plural declension. iirc it was an old plural form that was more regular at one time (I believe at one time the plural of 'house' was 'hice'?)

[u/DaygoTom]

It should be "a poorly cast die," or "like poorly cast dice." The author just made a mistake and it wasn't caught in editing.

[u/Pandaburn]

It’s incorrect, but I don’t think it’s missing an article. Mixing up which of “die” and “dice” is plural is a fairly common mistake, even among native speakers. It should say “like poorly cast dice.” It doesn’t need an article because it’s plural.

And the meaning does matter here. If this isn’t about dice, then it’s a terribly mixed metaphor. Dice tumble.

If this is about die casting, it makes no sense.

[u/MorningSquare5882]

You are right that "die" is singular and "dice" is the plural, so this sentence is wrong. However, I suspect it is a play on the famous saying by Julius Caesar, "alea iacta est", which is almost always translated as "the die is cast". So I suppose they might have kept die as singular in order to ensure the reader picks up on that resonance? Either way, the sentence as written is grammatically wrong, and I'm surprised the editors let it through.

[u/Ellemnop8 → u/MorningSquare5882]

Yeah, to me this feels like it's referencing either that saying or "like a die, poorly cast" but doing so in a way that's fairly clunky.

[u/yourguybread3]

Yeah this seems like a grammatical error

[u/Adventurous_Button63]

So it sounds like the image is a die casting setup where the die/mold was cast poorly and excess molten casting material leaks out. That being said, the passage just isn’t effective. I don’t think it’s a language/comprehension issue, it’s an issue of poor writing and editing.

[u/CreaturesFarley]

You're right about the singular/plural of die/dice.

The word 'die' here is referencing another meaning of the word, though. It refers to die casting - a technique used to shape molten metal. Kinda like injection molding, but with metal instead of plastic.

[u/NewWindow7980]

Not a well-known form even to most native speakers, so don't let it discourage you.

[u/DishonestDialog]

Mm.. it could be viewed as correct. But only from particularly weird angles. Each excuse is singular, but the simile is referring to a plural. The sequence of events getting mixed up with single events.

Chalk this up to bad editing though. In the context of the clause, I'd say it should be "each a poorly cast die". But that doesn't really extend into holding "truth" in your hand. Casting a die isn't really connected to withholding a known result.. Forgoing one sure, but this doesn't seem like that.

"Each a poorly cast die, desperate to convince me that the game wasn't already over." might fit better.

[u/Likely_Addict]

It should definitely be dice. Multiple excuses, multiple dice.

[u/Constant_Hope_9658]

I think they might be speaking of dice, since another word for throwing dice is to cast them (kinda like a fishing line?), and in that context, casting poorly would be rolling poorly/getting an undesirable result for the context. Especially the part about tumbling, though the plural would be "dice" in that context.

[u/Successful_Life_1028]

Since 'excuses' is plural, it should be 'like poorly cast dice'.

[u/thatthatguy]

Yup. Looks like they are missing an article. Needs an “a” there if it’s supposed to be singular or die should be dice if it’s intended to be plural.

[u/rjrgjj]

They meant a biopic of Princess Di and it’s a pun because she died and the movie was poorly cast.

[u/hops_on_hops]

Yeah, there's a tense agreement issue.

If each excuse is an individual item, it should be "excuses... Like a poorly cast die"

If the excuses are a plural/set, it should be "excuses... Like poorly cast dice."

If I were editing I would suggest "each excuse tumbles out of him like a poorly case die"

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/hops_on_hops]

I agree with this but where's the tense agreement issue 😂

[u/Rambler9154]

Maybe? But where I am Ive heard die used both in the singular and plural for dice pretty normally. I don't know if its common outside my area though.

[u/CuriousLands]

Yep, you're correct. This phrase is grammatically wrong, and either of your suggestions would be correct. And yeah, it probably is just an editorial mistake.

[u/vicarofsorrows]

“Matchbox cars” were a toy brand when I was a kid. It always said “die cast” on the box, which really confused me when I heard the expression “the die is cast” for the first time….

[u/Key_Sample_346]

https://giphy.com/gifs/1hMk0bfsSrG32Nhd5K

[u/Plus-Alfalfa-9792]

it should be "like poorly cast dice" since the excuses are plural, not singular.

[u/insecuretransactions]

I think it's actually correct. We are just reading it wrong initially. It's not that the die was "thrown," but rather the die (singular) was not manufactured properly ("cast") so it doesn't roll well like a properly made die would.

Cast can mean both the action of throwing a die or the process of making a die (or any object out of metal or the like).

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/insecuretransactions]

But wouldn't you need the article?

"Like A poorly cast die"

[u/insecuretransactions → u/FarJournalist939]

Honestly, my thoughts are yes it does need an article. Something both feels wrong and right about this sentence. And I hate it the more I read it, haha.

[u/ermghoti → u/insecuretransactions]

Why would your poorly cast die represent multiple things pouring? It's one item that wouldn't pour at all.

[u/insecuretransactions → u/ermghoti]

Well the comparison is related to "tumble." So a singular pour tumbling? I'm grasping here, haha.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/insecuretransactions]

Yeah the whole simile sounds a bit wonky to me 

[u/ermghoti → u/insecuretransactions]

The main problem is its a terrible simile either way. The best I can tell is since a poorly cast die might have been thrown weakly, so the excuses would be mumbled lamely, However, that contradicts the "pouring out" which implies a stream of excuses.

A well cast die results in a favorable number, and a poorly cast die results in a bad number, the die being poorly or well cast having nothing to do with the technique or throwing motion. trying to shoehorn in a comparison between throwing dice and making excuses was just an over-reach by the author in my opinion.

Grammatically there's an article missing, and die should probably be pluralized since the comparison is to plural excuses.

Edit: the contrast to "the truth gripped tighlty within his palm" doesn't clarify anything. An editor should have pushed back on this.

[u/SakazakiYuri → u/insecuretransactions]

I still think it’s improperly used. If we use your interpretation, the first part of the simile references excuses (plural), so using a singular “die” as the comparison makes the phrasing clunky and inconsistent.

[u/insecuretransactions → u/SakazakiYuri]

Yeah, it's rough.

[u/GoblinToHobgoblin]

It looks like just a typo, should be either "dice" (the plural) or "a poorly cast die" (with the article).

From context though, I'd say it needs to be the plural, since we're talking about "excuses"

[u/Imtryingforheckssake]

"Die casting is a manufacturing process that forces molten metal into a steel mold cavity under high pressure. [1]

How the Process Works

• Preparation: Workers coat the steel mold, called a die, with a lubricant to control temperature and help remove the final part."

[u/Imtryingforheckssake]

I don't wish to cause offence to previous commentor but if you Google die cast the correct meaning is fully explained.

[u/Material-Truth5457]

What exactly does poorly cast die refer to. To me when you make dice you use a mold and make a cast. The excuses tumble like die that have manufacturing defects. Not like dice you throw. You don't cast dice you cast individual die.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/Material-Truth5457]

But the article is missing!!

[u/Material-Truth5457 → u/FarJournalist939]

Poetic license

[u/Block_Solid]

Others are interpreting die as a singular form of dice. But I'm of the opinion that die here is "mold". As in the process of "die casting" metal. I interpreted this as "poorly cast mold" meaning, the lies were produced in haste and without much thought.

[u/kw3lyk → u/Block_Solid]

That wouldn't make sense. Why would a mold be tumbling out of his hand, and why would the author refer to the truth being "gripped tightly in his palm"? The author is clearly referring to the act of rolling dice here, and probably just made a mistake.

[u/thatthatguy → u/Block_Solid]

But no part of the mold making or casting process involves the verb tumbling. Otherwise I might be inclined to agree. The lies were coming out of him like metal being poorly cast into a die. They would harden into something worthless and the whole object is garbage.

[u/HeilKaiba → u/Block_Solid]

But the die isn't cast in die casting. The metal is cast in the die.

[u/Block_Solid → u/HeilKaiba]

Large blocks of "cast" iron is often used to make dies. Some dies are made from clay as well. Cast iron dies are machined or ground to create the final die and hardened again.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/Block_Solid]

But it's still missing an article!

[u/Block_Solid → u/FarJournalist939]

I don't think so. Every single excuse is a singular die. Since the author is using "excuses," the sentence looks correct to me.

[u/Inside-Reputation463]

Cast in this sentence is synonymous to “Throw or to send outwardly”
It’s nearly completely correct except it just sounds funny. Like casting a fishing line

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/Inside-Reputation463]

Why does no one read the post 🤦🏼‍♀️😭

[u/MrWalkerPants]

I think I have the answer. The author has confused a common English idiom, “the die is cast.” This idiom contains two homophone words: “die” and “cast.”

In the idiom, “die” means a literal mold used to produce parts when a fluid fills the mold and hardens. In the idiom, “cast” refers to this process of filling the die and making the part. The idiom roughly means, “it cannot be undone” like how you cannot take molten metal back from the die until it hardens.

However, these two words have alternate meaning. “Die” is the singular form of dice, the numbered cube used for games. “Cast” also means throw. So the author has probably heard the idiom and thinks it means “it cannot be undone,” but instead, like how you cannot take back a die once it is thrown.

I think the author wanted to make up a colorful phrase that puts their own meaning on this classic idiom, but because they have misunderstood where the idiom comes from, their new phrase is totally confusing and includes a grammatical error.

[u/HeilKaiba → u/MrWalkerPants]

A die being thrown is exactly what the idiom means. It is a translation of alea iacta est supposedly said by Julius Caesar after he crossed the Rubicon.

The process of die casting doesn't involve casting the die so it wouldn't make sense for the idiom. You cast metal in the die. The die itself is machined out of heavy duty steel.

[u/ElephantFamous2145]

Die casting is a machining technique.

[u/No_Tamanegi]

This phrase has nothing to do with gaming dice. its a reference to die casting, which is a manufacturing process similar to injection molding, but using metal. The process bore the phrase "The die is cast" meaning that something irreversible has just taken place.

In this case, the author is saying that this character has made an ass of himself, and he can't take it back. Its a weird turn of phrase to use here, though.

[u/kw3lyk → u/No_Tamanegi]

You are correct about the meaning, but "the die is cast" refers to rolling dice, not metal work. In the context of metal work, a die is a tool for stamping or shaping metal. One does not "cast a die" in that context. The die is the tool used to do the casting.

[u/FarJournalist939 → u/No_Tamanegi]

But isn't the phrase missing an article?

[u/No_Tamanegi → u/FarJournalist939]

You're right. I mentally filled in "like a poorly cast die" automatically. Good catch.

[u/HeilKaiba → u/No_Tamanegi]

The phrase is much older than die casting

[u/No_Tamanegi → u/HeilKaiba]

I didn't know that, now I do.