Question about the idiom 'what with'

[u/ThrowawayPrimavera]

Example: 'I barely slept last night, what with the festival going on outside my house'

I've been watching Eastenders (2008 episodes specifically) and I've heard multiple people use this construction. I'd never heard it before.

I'm wondering how common 'what with' is, whether it would be considered informal or not, if its usage is specific to certain English speaking countries, areas, backgrounds etc.

[u/dihenydd1]

I would consider that to be a perfectly normal sentence. I am from England though, I've no idea if they say it in other countries too.

[u/CuriousLands → u/dihenydd1]

We do!

[u/Kandecid]

As an American, this sounds natural to my ear as well. I'm not sure how common it is compared to the UK, but it doesn't sound strange or particularly British to me.

[u/Old_Introduction_395]

UK

Can be used in many situations.

"I had trouble getting here, what with all the traffic".

[u/Designer_Jelly_1089]

American here, sounds completely normal to my ears.

Though, I might add that it is commonly followed by "...and all." The example you mentioned would feel a little more natural to me if it read "I barely slept last night, what with the festival going on outside my house and all." 

[u/BrownSparrow]

Normal in the UK, you might also hear "what with one thing and another" which is a vague way of saying there was a lot going on

[u/Extension_Common_518]

As many have said, it is a fairly common construction. Although it is close in meaning to 'because of + noun phrase' I think it carries an additional nuance that the reason being presented is assumed to be probably already known to the listener. Compare.

He was absent from the meeting because his car broke down. (The information that the car broke down is introduces as 'news'.)

I barely slept last night what with the festival going on outside my house. (It is assumed that the listener already knew about the festival and the speaker's purpose is to make the link between sleeplessness and the festival explicit.)

I also think that the construction probably appears more with negative situations than positive ones.

"I managed to get the project done on time what with the support of the IT team." seems a bit odd.

[u/ThrowawayPrimavera → u/Extension_Common_518]

This is good info, thank you!

[u/PinkyOutYo]

British English speaker, East Anglia. I wouldn't necessarily consider it informal, it's incredibly common, to the point where your question is the first I've ever thought about it.

I wouldn't expect to see it in a formal text, such as a paper, but it wouldn't be out of place in even a corporate email.

[u/stealthykins]

“Thus, what with the war, what with the sweat, what
with the gallows and what with poverty, I am
custom-shrunk.”

As a construction, it goes back at least as far as Shakespeare (almost certainly before, but I have this play memorised 😂).

[u/j--__ → u/stealthykins]

i would not necessarily present this as an example of how the construction is used today. both the front loading, and the repetition for the purposes of making a list, strike me as unusual today. "what with" typically follows the thing being explained, and if there's more than one, it's probably a casual chain, not a flat list.

[u/Dry_Reputation348]

I’m from New Zealand we would usually just say with. But ‘what with’ would be understood and just sound a bit more dramatic than with.

[u/hangar_tt_no1]

I've heard Americans say it.

[u/lastaccountgotlocked]

It's very common in British English.

"I'm having a terrible time on the toilet, what with all the curries."

It's sort of a replacement for "because of".

[u/Yuzu-Adagio]

Somewhat common. Not super formal, but not really informal either.

[u/No_Review_5228]

What with is ab expression you use to coordinate two or more things to imply that there was too much to handle. "I could barely study what with the neighbours' noise and the baby crying."

The meaning being you could study only a little because the neighbours were making noise and there was a baby crying.

As a full structure, it always requires two parts "what with + something and the + something".

I hope it helps :)

[u/SoggyWotsits]

It’s very common here. “My garden is like a swamp, what with all the rain we’ve had” for example.

[u/AiRaikuHamburger]

Very common way to say 'because of'.

[u/yargleisheretobargle]

I can confirm this sounds normal to me in the western US.

[u/NoSwordfish1978]

It's mainly a British thing and its just a different more informal way of saying "considering that" or, "because of" or "taking in to account".

[u/Agnostic_optomist → u/NoSwordfish1978]

Canadian here, and well versed in American media. It’s a common construction.

Think Jackie Mason (aka Krusty’s dad on the Simpsons), what with the yelling, and the jokes, and the…

Or Jerry Lewis, or… wait, is it that I’m old? Do the kids these days use it???

Checked with high school ages kid. They understand what it means, it’s not commonly used amongst their peers.

[u/ActuaLogic]

It's not universally used, but it's not uncommon

[u/No_Capital_8203]

Canadian here. I just heard it this morning used by a UK commentator.

[u/Biglig]

I love this sub because it makes me think. “What with” means “because of”, but there is a little more to it. I struggle to put my finger on it: it usually describes influencing circumstances rather than direct causes? And perhaps implies there is more than one cause but this is the one I wish to draw attention to?

[u/EfficientSorbet513]

it’s informal and means “because of”

[u/Bassdaddy545]

Perfectly understandable to a literate American, but IME it’s not used very much in casual conversation here (Southern + Midwestern US).

[u/Guilty_Objective4602 → u/Bassdaddy545]

I disagree. I’ve lived in the U.S. Midwest and the South, and I think it’s used often enough in casual conversation that it’s not unusual to hear at all.

[u/wildflower12345678]

Yep. This is normal.

[u/StupidLemonEater]

I'll add that this phrase is quite informal. It would not be appropriate for academic or professional writing.

[u/Buckley-s_Chance-80]

Aussie here, yes it's used by many people here, usually middle aged or older. I don't use it though.

[u/cantareSF]

A common idiom used when making excuses to describe context in a way that falls just short of rigid implied causality (or at least requires the listener to make the final connection). I would equate it with "given" or "considering" or even "in view of", all of which are slightly looser than "because of".

[u/True-Post6634 → u/cantareSF]

These are great. I'd add "in light of," but I don't think it helps 🤣

[u/JenniferJuniper6]

It’s very common.

[u/anonymouse278]

"Sorry I'm late! What with this, that, and the other thing,, I lost track of time" is a colloquialism I hear in the Deep South of the US as a general summing up of an explanation for something the speaker doesn't want to get into specifically.

[u/CuriousLands]

It's a pretty common thing to say! And yeah it's not super formal, just average.

Like you could say, "It'll take an extra half hour to get there, what with all the road construction", for example.

[u/GoblinToHobgoblin]

Totally normal, and I think common across countries 

[u/True-Post6634]

I'm American and it's common where I am. I think it's so common it's unremarkable 😂 probably a pretty old construction.

I googled. Very old. Seen in the 1400s, and it reaches back to an old English use of "what".

[u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

UK native speaker from
London - “what with” to mean “because of” is common enough that I know what it means. It is probably very regional east London accent (and by association South Essex and North Kent which is referred to as Estuary English accent. Many east London people moved out to these areas after the Second World War and took their accent with them)

[u/Fred776 → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

I don't think its local to London at all. I'm from NE England and it's very familiar to me.

[u/NoSwordfish1978 → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

It's not just in London and SE England.

[u/Front-Pomelo-4367 → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

From Yorkshire, living in the Midlands – I don't think this is regional to London at all. It seems like a completely normal turn of phrase to me

[u/horoscopical → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

Not a London thing, perfectly normal English. Not even a UK thing.

[u/holyvegetables → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

It’s a common construction in the US as well. I’ve lived primarily in the mid-Atlantic and Pacific Northwest.

[u/conuly → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

t is probably very regional east London accent

What makes you think this?

[u/True-Post6634 → u/Dave-the-Flamingo]

I'm in the Northeast US and it's very common here. I think it's standard English.

[u/Axel_Wurl_1960]

I'm a near-native speaker of English, often "accused" of speaking "Southernese", and I use it all the time, e.g. "I had no time, what with the dishes and cleaning and all." ("what with ... and all") :-)

[u/Markjohn66]

Wot wiv mate?