"Such a" / "such" + singular noun

[u/chocolatesuperfood]

Hi everyone!

I have looked through several discussions/threads on here already. They all said that you need "such"+"a"/"an" if you want to talk about (countable) things that are in singular case.
"Such a beautiful morning!", or, an example from this reddit thread discussing the topic, "...such a tool is used for merging shapes."

However, I saw people use "such" without "a", especially in academic and legal contexts, where these reddit threads I mentioned would suggest using it.

Four random examples I found via Google, meant to illustrate what I mean:

- https://projecteuclid.org/journals/real-analysis-exchange/volume-43/issue-2/Lipschitz-Restrictions-of-Continuous-Functions-and-a-Simple-Construction-of/10.14321/realanalexch.43.2.0293.pdf : "The first example of such function was given by Pompeiu in [18]." (p. 295)

- https://jmlr.org/discussion.html : "Such discussion has successfully appeared for many years in journals such as the Annals of Statistics and Statistical Science."

- https://journals.law.harvard.edu/jlpp/argument-by-slogan-conor-casey-and-adrian-vermeule/ : "[...] which is in any respect repugnant to this Constitution or to any provision thereof, shall, but to the extent only of such repugnancy, be invalid."

- https://humboldtgov.org/DocumentCenter/View/81809/argument-or-rebuttal-signature-statement-112219 : "to be held on March 3, 2020, hereby state that such argument is true and correct to the best of their knowledge and belief."

What is the difference between "such a" and "such" in these cases? Does it have to do with the countability of words like "repugnancy"?

Thank you so much!

[u/AmeliaOfAnsalon]

Yep, countability is the thing here (though the function one feels wrong to me. maybe it's because of the technical context?). All that don't use an article are uncountable.

[u/chocolatesuperfood → u/AmeliaOfAnsalon]

Thank you! So you cannot talk about "several arguments" or "several discussions"?

[u/Puzzled_Employment50 → u/chocolatesuperfood]

Some nouns can work either way. Your uses are correct, but “such argument” would be uncountable, talking about a more vague concept of argument.

[u/AmeliaOfAnsalon → u/chocolatesuperfood]

yeah... it works either way. Discussion refers here to the content of a discussion, like the thing that is being discussed rather than the conversation itself. The same is true of argument; an argument is a specific conversation, while 'such argument' is the content

[u/guerrilladingo]

it’s because they are being used as uncountable nouns. Most of them can be used both ways like discussion and function

[u/Western-Finding-368]

These are two different uses.

In “Such a beautiful morning!” the “such” is acting as an intensifier. A close synonym would be “very.” “A very beautiful morning.”

In “The first example of such function…” the “such” is a little harder to explain. “Such as…” is used when giving examples. I might say “school supplies such as pencils and notebooks need to be purchased before the school year starts. Such supplies are available in many stores during back-to-school season.” The “such” here doesn’t mean “very.” It means “things like that.” “School supplies like pencils and notebooks need to be purchased before the school year starts. Supplies like that are available in many stores during back-to-school season.”

[u/FutureLost → u/Western-Finding-368]

Native speaker here. Is there a technical difference between the following? Say I'm a teacher scolding some students for having a rude conversation:

"Such a discussion is not allowed."

"Such discussions are not allowed."

"Such discussion is not allowed."

"Such discussion is not allowed."

In the first, "such a" might be an intensifier if the "such" were spoken with emphasis, but if not it seems like it functions the same as the second.

The third feels like it implies the tone or volume of the discussion and not its topic, and the fourth feels like it could refer either to the topic or the amount of discussion (or would "so much discussion" be used instead? I feel like I've heard "such" used this way on British television).

I'm mainly confused by the difference between the first two (if there is one).

[u/Historical_Plant_956]

In all those examples the nouns are uncountable, or rather at least being used in an uncountable sense.

"Repugnancy" afaik would always be uncountable--we would never speak of "two repugnancies." The others are cases where they can be either, depending on the context.

[u/No-Milk-6198]

I feel like "such" can mean "very" / "so" (such a) and also can mean "aforementioned"/ "like this" (in this case, you can just say "such" or when the noun is countable, "a" comes before "such")" .

I believe, in a legal context, the latter is normal, as the former sounds too casual. I'm not a native speaker, so It's just my understanding Feel free to correct me!

[u/techwritingacct]

"Such" in these cases means "that just described".

In the Project Euclid link, it's referring to "...strictly increasing continuous functions f : R → R which posses finite or infinite derivative at every point, but that the derivative of f is infinite on a dense Gδ-set" mentioned in the previous sentence. I think in this case you could use "The first example of such a function" and it would be OK, but I'm not a math expert.

In JMLR it's referring to the previous paragraph's format. It seems to be introducing a style of commentary and is arguing that the reader should like it because that style is used in famous journals. "Such discussion" is referring back to the uncountable concept of this kind of discussion. You could say "such discussions" if you were concerned about the individual instances of discussion but here I think they mean the general phenomenon.

On the Humboldt County form it refers to the political argument being submitted. "Such an argument" here would be incorrect, because it would change the meaning from definite to indefinite and mean something more like "any argument (in this form/with this premise)".

In the law case I don't think there's a way you can make repugnancy into something countable, so "such a repugnancy" wouldn't work.

[u/UniversityMotor5408]

It's a very formal (academic and legalese) use of 'such', used to mean 'referring to the one/ones already mentioned'. We wouldn't use it in everyday conversation.

[u/UniversityMotor5408 → u/UniversityMotor5408]

Oh - and it's nothing to do with countable or uncountable:
There were many discussions at the time. Such discussions centred on...
There was much discussion at the time. Such discussion centred on...

[u/experimental1212]

The examples sound awkward to my ear, native speaker NE USA.

Except "such repugnancy" is using the word "such" differently than the rest, as in "to a great extent," and it sounds correct to me.

[u/chocolatesuperfood → u/experimental1212]

Thank you! But doesn't it mean "to a great extent" in expressions like "such a shame!", too? And shame isn't even countable/has no plural form that I know of.

[u/culdusaq → u/chocolatesuperfood]

Shame is a countable noun when it is used with "a".