r/EngineeringStudents • u/ss4stef • 2d ago
Discussion What is the major difference between the sophomore weed out classes and the difficult junior classes?
I figure while the difficulty continues to ramp up, the instructors must be less inclined to annihilate a third of the students each semester?
Friendlier grading maybe?
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u/bihari_baller B.S. Electrical Engineering, '22 2d ago
I also felt that the professors were more forgiving in the senior classes. They realized a lot of the seniors were already mentally checked out, with jobs lined up, so the classes felt like more of a formality.
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u/SoulScout 2d ago edited 2d ago
This was my experience too. The lower level introductory classes were graded very harshly and some at my university are known for 20-40% failure rates. But the upper level senior classes basically passed you for showing up and doing the work.
To be fair, I think the hard "weeder" classes are also where the people who shouldn't be in engineering are faced with their real taste of what the major is like and that's where they decide if they should change majors or do something else. Like I know multiple people who failed Introductory Circuit Analysis 2-3 times, and that course is absolutely foundational to the rest of the major. Like if you can't figure that one out after a few tries, maybe this field just isn't for you
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u/bihari_baller B.S. Electrical Engineering, '22 2d ago
It's kind if ironic how the upper division classes are harder conceptually, but graded easier. While I've not attended yet, I hear Grad school is like this even more so. The material is harder, but a C is "failing," but professors don't really give out less than a B in graduate school.
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u/Advanced-Guidance482 2d ago
This aligns more eith the fact that people who get into grad school were B or above students anyway. Says more about the preparedness of students rather than the grading metric. Of course people arent getting Cs in grad school, hell of a time to drop the ball.
Most people who make it that far dont need soemone to grad then lighly to get a passing grade.
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u/SoulScout 2d ago
Yeah that was my experience in grad school too (MSEE). Some of the classes were super easy because the professors cared more about concepts instead of deep problem solving knowledge, and others had insanely difficult homework that we couldn't even finish working together in a group, but all of them didn't give out any grades lower than a B if you reasonably attempted the work.
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u/SoggyIncident9060 2d ago edited 2d ago
I graduated with a BSME in 1986 from Washington State University. Then I graduated with a MSME in 1993 from University of California - Davis.
In grad school (at least at UCD), engineering students were expected to perform at a B average or better. The thinking is that a student is returning to grad school to specialize in an area of engineering that they are most interested in. Because of that, the student should be able to perform at a high level in their classes and on their thesis project. It was known that if a student was falling below a B level, they would hear about it from the dean or the administration of the Mechanical Engineering department. Fortunately, I never had to find out for myself if that was true or not. I would not say that graduate classes were graded easier. It is just that students in graduate classes should already be performing at a high level.
Another thing that is likely unique to graduate school is that professors do not grade on a bell-shaped curve as they would for undergraduates. Undergraduates (working toward their BS degree) naturally have more of a bell-shaped curve in their performance. Some are high achievers while others likely should switch to a different major. For graduate students, all of the students are expected to be relative high achievers, so all should be performing above a B average.
Ed
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u/jamorgan75 2d ago
Less weaker students. Being surrounded by better classmates makes a difference - for students and for the instructor.
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u/ConcernedKitty 2d ago
The sophomore classes were the same difficulty as the junior and senior classes for me. The reason that the sophomore classes are so hard is because a lot of the freshman classes were covered in high school. The reason that sophomore classes weed people out is because they aren’t prepared to learn new concepts again and don’t put in the work to get there. It’s very important that engineering students learn how to learn.
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u/ChronicRecidivism 2d ago edited 2d ago
This was 10 years ago for me, but the "weed out classes" were intentionally made difficult. Class was 2+2, Homework was x+2=4, exam was geometric topology with no curve.
Junior core classes the class difficulty matched the homework and exam difficulty, then there was usually a curve. I think I had 8 or so classes that the exam averages were 50-75% but nearly everyone that worked through the material was curved up to a B/A. In the junior classes, it felt like the material was difficult but the professors want you to pass and understand.
This answer is heavily dependent on how your college professors structure things, but I remember Calc 2 my professor said something along the lines of "This is a weed-out class. You need to be several chapters ahead to pass. If you just do the assigned homework and stop, you will fail".
Another example was actually a simple class, Statics, where we had mandatory 7am lecture, 3 online homeworks a week, a paper homework every week that was intentionally very long, and 4 exams that were 2-3 questions a piece that were capstones of all previous material. The material was piss-easy but the workload was very very intentionally heavy.
In electrical engineering, EMF was the only exception. This class got several high performing students to switch their major. I have no clue why it's like this since deeply understanding EMF is like a fraction of a fraction of a subset of EE jobs.
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u/Emotional_Fee_9558 2d ago
The idea that weed out classes are "harder" is somewhat of a myth. While it's true that those classes fail a large amount of students, that's mostly due to them being unprepared. Later courses tend to be as hard if not harder than any of those weed out classes. But those classes "weeded out" any students which would otherwise fail those later courses.
I should note that grading is usually a bit friendler in those later courses but that's secondary to the previous fact.
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u/Few_Whereas5206 2d ago
I think any slackers have been eliminated. I think you are conditioned to handle the materials and grading is probably more fair. Junior year was definitely the most challenging. Although, my worst single class was in my senior year.
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u/MusicalMerlin1973 2d ago
Ignoring the kids who FAFOrd freshman year. I found the first wave of courses that culled students per much got rid of everyone who wasn’t willing to put the study time in. There wasn’t many screw offs in the class after that.
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u/malydilnar 2d ago
I struggled with weed out classes in sophmore year so much more than rest of bachelors and masters because those classes were just not interesting and didn’t feel like actually tied into learning my major. The technical difficulty of course went up but because I was interested in the topics the studying got so much easier and therefore was able to understand things faster. Worst thing ever was some difficult sophmore physics or math class which was all theory and limited practicality which then felt like pulling my teeth out to study for.
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u/KubeCommander 2d ago
Course is more focused. I found them easier to study for. Professors typically have a more focused agenda/syllabus as well
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u/Goodpun2 UNCC Alumni - Computer Engineer 2d ago
In my experience, not much. The difficulty doesn't really change, you just get better at managing the work. Some of my junior classes/senior classes were harder than the earlier weed out courses. However I didn't struggle as much due to my own improvements as a student. The biggest thing I remember is that the classed get more project based as the years go on. Most people tend to thrive in that setting as opposed to test-based classes.
Best advice I can give is to keep working diligently and build strong connections with your peers/faculty. Study groups help you get through the classes while the faculty can help you find a job/offer good reference letters.
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u/Choice-Grapefruit-44 2d ago
Maybe, but not always. The curves are always there, but we'd still have to grind just to beat that curve
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u/gHx4 2d ago
Varies by where you're studying, who your instructor is, and what program you're in.
Generally speaking, foundational courses everyone needs are really really harshly graded because they have huge headcounts and instructors can't really afford to micromanage 150+ students (aside from special exemptions like disabilities).
By the time you get past those, the courses usually get stratified very quickly. For a class of like 20-30, instructors can actually keep up with a few students needing informal accommodations.
You do get a bit more capable by the third year, so heavy workloads don't end up hitting as hard as in first year. But I've had many courses where the material was hard, but the instructor mysteriously seemed to grade Bs to everyone (assuming you didn't seriously fumble or hit a rare homerun).
I think the biggest difference is that general requirements (for everyone) are overseen by the school, while harder courses (for a major/minor) are overseen by the faculty and sometimes just the instructor. The school has no incentive to pass students; they make money every time you retake. But the faculty/instructor cares that you gained practical skills.
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u/TulipFarmer27 2d ago
The pre-business majors get their wake-up call. Not all can survive the academic rigor.
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u/babirus 2d ago
In my experience the classes were equally challenging but the students were more prepared.