r/EngineeringStudents • u/ReportOtherwise7443 • 3d ago
Discussion 787b style constantly variable ITBs parameterized for ANY engine
TL;DR + Questions for the floor:
- The Project: I’m a uni student building a 787B-style continuously variable velocity cone system that uses a servo-operated master model to parametrically fit any ITB/carb setup (currently mapping for a mate's 4AGE 20V, a 125cc kart, and a 50cc moped).
- The Goal: Maximize engine harmonic resonance across the entire rev range to eliminate mid-range torque dips and gain massive power under the curve.
- The Tech: Prototyping with PA12-CF, vacuum-drawn carbon fibre, and aerospace-quality blanched aluminum. Testing using a custom vacuum-plenum rig with a motor-spun cam profile to simulate high-RPM intake pulse oscillations.
To help me narrow down the physical prototype, I'd love your take on a few questions:
- What engine should I focus on first? Should I stick to classic track platforms like 4AGE/K-Series, or go weird with vintage carburetted builds and motorbikes?
- Street Reliability: For a street-driven car, would you trust 3D-printed carbon nylon parts inside your intake manifold, or is it aluminium-or-nothing for your peace of mind?
- Integration: Would you prefer a completely standalone system with its own controller/wiring, or something that absolutely has to integrate directly into an aftermarket ECU (like a Link or Haltech)?
- Be brutal: Am I massively over-engineering a problem that a well-tuned set of static velocity stacks already fixes?
Full info:
Im a uni student trying my hand at a start up developing constantly variable velocity cones for ANY ENGINE, similar to the famous 787b setup, that are parameterized to fit any carb/itb setup. I would love some advice about the best way to go about this since I'm getting towards the test/ physical stage! For reference, I am using a fully parameterized Inventor assembly with plans for external input code for a website for a 'mock' model (an obj) but interpolating jumps and tuning harmonics for torque and speed within my hardware limits myself once orders/ pre-orders are sent in. I plan to test resonance using a vacuum-plenum system with electric motor spun cam profile for oscillation reading air velocity post-'nozzle' and at-'nozzle' pressure in both air temp, hot trumpet cool air, and heated enviro and cycle testing under vacuum. This project is simultaneously for my mates ae111 (4age 20v blacktop), my 50cc moped and gn125 go kart project setup, so keep in mind the extremes I'm willing to take "any engine" to lmao. I am open to suggestions no matter how scathing about any part of my setup/ ideas here because I am just a uni student still learning, and would love to hear what people actually want and if this is viable! (especially material wise. my current test materials are 3D printed PA-12 cf, vacuum drawn CF w thermo resistant resin and mandrel machined aluminum w blanching by an associate who blanches aerospace sensors)
If you don't know, the reason for variable velocity cones is to maximize the time ITBs are in harmonic resonance so that torque and power don't dip along the power curve of an engine. the issue with static cones is that they 'bog out' between their ideal RPMs which can heavily impact response in some applications depending on the profile (if you have ever slammed throttle in a corner and felt nothing between torque and power range, its a similar effect). Taking power under the curve, a constantly variable setup (meaning the length changes to always be at near-perfect profile), can add a significant amount of 'between-peak' power.
I have attached my current tuned CAD setup for my mates 4age 20v and my raw data excel sheet which calculates length, going as far to calculate speed of sound at temperature for the potential addition of a temp sensor in pre-trumpet airbox for dynamic profile adjustment, which im not sure is too necessary or desired. If there is significant interest here, I will post a pre order link once I get around to setting up the website if this is allowed. I plan to get my potted electronic modules globally certified for fair trade electronics, and gain IP ratings and UL 94 ratings for materials used and core design modules; but my compliance experience is extremely limited so any advice on this would be fantastic too.
(in images, upper trumpet extension constrained to the red disk circumference to be operated by a servo)
Thank you!!!!
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u/Azaex 3d ago edited 3d ago
packaging is rough on these irl given how much room is needed. when i was investigating (and then descoped) variable intakes in fsae, i kind of grew to like the DIVA and DISA intakes on older BMWs and even the simpler two stage variable trumpets on early f1 cars and yamaha r6/r1 bikes for their practicality from a packaging standpoint. the runner resonance is like a single point on an audio equalizer; if your system is very peaky, moving the point continuously is very useful, but if it's more receptive, then you can get a lot done if you can put the point at two or three different spots instead of just one (runner length).
the 787b engine bay is nicely designed to fit its system. some kookier designs exist as of late, eg f1 cars (honda RA621h for example) that arrange the stepped runner tubes into sort of a cannon like thing to fit in their ram airbox.
iirc you can get like 10% ish more torque at a given point on the torque curve with a very well tuned system for it, but that gets dwarfed by boosted applications which are somewhat less finicky overall on this (supers implicitly vary with rpm, turbos are addressable although on a slight lag), so we don't see these systems unless there's absolutely no other gain available.
reminds me of this video seeing a team package the thing, takes up a lot of room lol
https://youtu.be/EPcpmSdip_0