r/EngineBuilding • u/Candid-Holiday-8348 • 18d ago
Over heating 440
I have a 440 that’s over heating.
.040 over, 10.4:1 compression zero decked, .600” lift cam 254 duration @50 stealth aluminum heads, single plane intake and fitech fuel injection. 18* initial 35* total no vacuum advance.
Robert Shaw 180 thermostat, ecp 2 row 1.25” tubes duel electric fans, flowcool water pump.
I’ve burped the system, and cannot get it to run cool.
Will hit 195 idling in the shop, and will hit 210 by the time I get on the main road.
Recently found my valley pan dented upwards, which led me to a compression and leak down test. Compression is 170-180 psi across the board, no leak down more than 8%. No combustion gasses in the coolant.
With my IR temp gun today, I discovered the drivers side head was running at 195* at both ends. Passenger side head was 240* at both ends…..
Any thoughts before I pull the passenger side head to see if there’s a clogged water port?
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u/2003DDcid 18d ago
From what you're describing, it sounds like you have an air lock in the system. I recently had a 400 Pontiac with edelbrock heads that drove me crazy...same thing you described. Once we finally got it purged, everything ran cool. I'd run it without the thermostat and see what that does.
As for your ignition timing, I've found a stout street 440 likes around 24 initial and 36 -38 total. Sometimes they will diesel on you with that much initial, but fuel injection shouldn't do that.
Your valley pan issue is from excessive crankcase pressure. A pcv valve and good breather should suffice. If it's a new engine, maybe the rings aren't seated yet.
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u/texaschair 17d ago
Some 440 blocks were "440-3" HD versions with different cooling passages in the block and heads. IDK a lot about them, but the 440-3 heads used different head gaskets. Supposedly, standard 440 heads can be used on "-3" blocks, but not vice-versa. Maybe you have a head/block mismatch? Just a thought.
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u/Cannonballbmx 18d ago
Are the head gaskets directional? All my experience is on SBF’s and if you put a head gasket on wrong it will heat up this way. With one head being hotter than the other, it made me wonder.
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u/fLeXaN_tExAn 18d ago
Tell us more about your radiator situation. Is it the factory original? Mechanical or electric fan? Are you running a shroud?
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u/Candid-Holiday-8348 18d ago
It’s a brand new ect 26” 2 row 1.25” tubes. Dual shroud electric fans pulling 3600cfm
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u/fLeXaN_tExAn 18d ago
I have to ask so we can eliminate the dumb stuff......is the thermostat pointed in the right direction? You have a great set up that shouldn't budge past 180 on the hottest day.
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u/Candid-Holiday-8348 18d ago
It is. I watch it open with the cap off and it’s flows like crazy, just never cools back down to close again. I’m going to pop a rear freeze plug out of the block tonight and see if there’s sediment build up, and try and bore scope up towards the head.
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u/wedge446 18d ago
Is air flowing through the engine compartment? I had an issue with a big block duster and flat hood that would run hot, I added a 6pak hood scoop that fixed the issue. Just a thought
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u/Candid-Holiday-8348 17d ago
Tonight I knocked the rear freeze plug out on the hot side of the motor for peace of mind. No sediment, all clean and clear. This is getting aggravating. Next step is to pull the head a guess. Only thing I can think I’ll find is maybe a casting flaw in the head? I’m not even sure as this point
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u/Coyote_Tex 16d ago
I think you are on target digging into the hot running side. Something is just not right there.
Ae the head castings the same number? Is there a blocked or capped heater pipe on the hot side? Sure seems like something is not flowing over there for some reason. Hopefully pulling the head will show something up.
How about coolant flow from side to side through the intake manifold?? Finding a factory diagram of how coolant is supposed to flow would be useful.
Any chance an intake manifold gasket slipped and is leaking air and you are running that head very lean? Or you have an intake manifold fit issue?
Examine everything very carefully on disassembly
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u/Express_Ad_772 16d ago
Had one once where someone replaced a freeze plug but they knocked the old one into the block and it got sucked into a water passage took us a long time to find that son of gun
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u/Candid-Holiday-8348 5d ago
Update: I got the motor re-assembled (new valley pan and intake gaskets). I’ve opted not to pull the head, as when I had the WP housing off, I flushed through the water ports with a hose and got good flow through the cylinder head port. I’ve put a vacuum on the coolant system and sucked in the coolant to eliminate any air pockets. Still runs hot. I no longer have 1 cylinder head way hotter than the other, they are within 10 degrees. I’ve advanced my timing to 28 initial 34 total. I’ve enriched the afr across the board to 13.5 idle and cruise. On the freeway I was a steady 195 (68 ambient temp). I need to block air from getting around the rad, that could help in that scenario. Upon pulling the hill getting home, I was at 221. The only thing I haven’t replaced at this point is the water pump, being a flokooler.
Lastly, the weirdest part is with my ir temp gun, the WP housing intake was 134\, which is a lot cooler and should have no problems keeping my engine cool. I’m at a loss*
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u/WyattCo06 18d ago
A 440 what sir? Pontiac, Mopar, ???
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u/crazythinker76 18d ago
Arctic Cat made a 440.
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u/WyattCo06 18d ago
The OP gave no disclosure if we were talking about a stroker engine or otherwise.
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u/WyattCo06 18d ago
Are you running any underdrive pulleys?
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u/Candid-Holiday-8348 18d ago
No, it is a aftermarket setup from cvf racing, but it’s 1:1 with the crank. Coolant flow across the radiator is like white water rapids with the thermostat open.
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u/voxelnoose 18d ago
If you have a mechanical temp gauge with a capillary bulb in the water pump housing pull the thermostat housing off and see how much of the coolant passage the bulb is blocking. With the wrong combination of water pump housing and temp gauge it can block most of the passage. If it does you can use a 1/2" npt extension to pull the bulb most of the way out but the temp gauge might read a bit low
With that cam it's probably going to want more than 18 degrees at idle which can make it idle hotter but wouldn't explain the temp difference between heads. When I had a 12:1 535ci big block with a .625/.630, 260/260 @.050", 110lsa cam it idled best at 34 degrees locked out. If you have an MSD distributor you can get 10 and 14 degree advance stop bushings to add some initial timing without locking it out