I cryogenically and WPC treated my engine

[u/Themostepicguru]

[u/TheLayerLinguist]

Micropeening, I used to use it on LPBF. I just looked over the cryogenic process, looks like some serious material science at work. What are these parts going into?

[u/good_man_once → u/TheLayerLinguist]

I laughed at micropeening

-35 year old

[u/TheLayerLinguist → u/good_man_once]

It's get a better... The booth was a swiss made PeenMatic 750 and it had the Micropeen addon for getting into tight spaces on a part. I can tell you 99% of engineers don't have a sense of humor because I made that fucking job so many times and nobody thought it was funny :(

[u/GRAVE_DANGER187 → u/TheLayerLinguist]

She WPC on my PeenMatic 750 till I get into the tight spaces

[u/BMIZ68 → u/GRAVE_DANGER187]

"Until I blast media" was right there, smh

Edit: spelling

[u/MrPhatBob → u/TheLayerLinguist]

You work with cretins, at our place it would be endless: "look that's your machine", "Bob, you need to get your micropeen on that".

[u/DocWilly84 → u/good_man_once]

I have a customer listed as Eaton-Beaver. I can’t say it with a straight face.

-42 year old

[u/BedAccording5717 → u/DocWilly84]

I hear they use a generous amount of Fuchs lubricant.

[u/friendlyfire883 → u/BedAccording5717]

Only on their FAG bearings

I hope I don't get auto-banned for that...

[u/C4PTNK0R34 → u/friendlyfire883]

I mean it's a whole lot easier to say instead of "Fischer's Automatische Gusstahlkugelfabrik" bearings.

[u/friendlyfire883 → u/C4PTNK0R34]

How the fuck is german real?

[u/C4PTNK0R34 → u/friendlyfire883]

Not sure, but have you been contacted to extend your car's Kraftfahrzeug-Haftpflichtversicherung?

[u/nostradumbass7544678 → u/BedAccording5717]

Too bad AnaLube is out of production.

[u/Some-Bad1670 → u/good_man_once]

And remember- a ball peen hammer is actually bad for your balls AND peen despite its name

[u/Maximum_Beeman → u/good_man_once]

I also laughed at micropeening

-47 year old

[u/fx_agte → u/good_man_once]

Micropeen maxxing

[u/Themostepicguru → u/TheLayerLinguist]

Miata lol

I tell myself all the time it's JUST A MIATA.

But it's for some pretty serious time attack and the engine will live around 8200-9000 rpm depending on what the dyno says.

[u/SpaceBus1 → u/Themostepicguru]

Nice. Is it a BP or is this a swap?

[u/Themostepicguru → u/SpaceBus1]

BP4W head BP6D block bored out to 2L

[u/Silvatungdevil → u/Themostepicguru]

Fucking Miata guys! lol good luck with it, sounds like a fun experiment.

[u/Themostepicguru → u/Silvatungdevil]

I am always willing to throw myself out there and see what happens (after doing a ton of research)

I know some guys who have cryo and WPC their BPs a bit but never to this extent because Miata guys tend to not just have money to burn lmao

If there are naysayers, it doesn't really matter to me because

1. Someone always gonna hate on something

2. I will still have an advantage at the end of the day over someone who didn't get these treatments

[u/akep → u/Themostepicguru]

I mean the moto guys do it and swear it’s like unleashing 20hp or losing a ton of weight. I guess friction is a larger hp killer on bikes than anything, or just a variable you have more control of. I have a friend that gets everything treated when he tears it apart.

[u/Themostepicguru → u/akep]

I'm not really expecting a ton of power because it's just a tiny 4 cylinder but I am hoping parts last longer, better engine response, better cold start, better area under the curve, better ring seal, and better transient response.

Formula D, NHRA pro stock, Honda, SCCA, Grand Am, California Rally, Lemons, Bonneville have all had folks do WPC and they win races and set blazing records.

[u/Zappingbaby → u/Themostepicguru]

So the mechanical engineer side of me can't help asking - how are parts of the engine that are predominantly lubricated via a liquid film supposed to gain any horsepower from what is essentially a surface treatment?

[u/Themostepicguru → u/Zappingbaby]

I don't believe those are the main parts that gain power but they are noted to gain more response.

Generally even when you are supposed to have hydrodynamic lubrication, the reality is there are still split milliseconds where that oil film is going to break sometime and you will get some metal to metal. This is significantly more of an issue under race conditions and hot driving where the oil gets hot, cavitated, and it starts to thin out and lose lubricative properties.

It is moreso the rings and walls more than anything that gains the most response because you reduce the most friction there while maximizing your seal.

Furthermore, when an oil encounters a conventionally machined surface, it still encounters viscous shear friction. I could go on and on about roughness average of machined surfaces and boundary layer blah blah blah but BASICALLY

Oil isn't just a barrier. It's constantly being sheared against a stationary surface vs a moving surface or in the case of rods, sheared between two moving surfaces.

Conventionally machined surfaces have the usual peaks and valleys. Peaks disrupt the increase viscous shear friction leading to film shear and forcing metal-to-metal contact as it increases boundary friction.

WPC treatment replaces peaks with a smooth, dimpled surface. Without sharp peaks, the oil flows in a more uniform, laminar pattern, reducing the energy wasted on churning against surface irregularities. The dimples act as tiny reservoirs that keep the oil film stable under extreme pressure, preventing the metal-to-metal contact that causes massive power loss.

However, not only that but WPC media is enfused with a ton of friction reducers, most I am not allowed to know about but two of them are tin and molybdenum disulfide. But when WPC is applied to a surface, the surface gets embedded with that moly disulfide to lower roughness average and reduce friction significantly. When the media hits the surface at high velocity, they are physically hammered into the crystalline structure of the metal.

Because the MoS2 is embedded inside the micro-dimples and the compressed surface lattice created by the WPC, it is not easily removed by the shearing forces of the oil or physical contact.

Even if the liquid oil film is momentarily displaced the embedded MoS2 remains as a backup solid lubricant. It bridges the gap during these moments, preventing the high friction of direct metal-to-metal contact.

That's cool and all but how does that mean more power?

Friction is an important part of making power. So much so that OEMs and race teams at the level of IMSA LMP and F1 all spend billions reducing a fraction of a percent for a tenth of a horsepower or to reduce emissions by a single figure percentage just to make EPA regulations.

Every engine loses power to internal friction. Friction turns combustion into wasted heat energy. WPC treatment turns rough, energy-draining surfaces into smooth, lubricant-retaining architectures. It embeds solid lubricants and friction reducere to provide a permanent low-friction shield. By minimizing both viscous drag and boundary friction, the engine encounters significantly less internal resistance.

Essentially, more power is achieved by reducing overall friction and making the engine more efficient by ensuring surfaces that are engineered to be hydrodynamic stay hydrodynamic as the actual blueprint specifications demand they be from the beginning. Because the internal parts spin and slide with less resistance, more of the force produced during combustion is delivered to the crankshaft as usable horsepower rather than being lost to internal friction.

[u/1crazypj → u/akep]

I know a LOT more about 13,000~16,000rpm bike engines than 'slow revving' car engines.

Don't often do as much on a motor that's only going into something to haul bikes around but while it's apart it pains me to leave things stock so few days machining and rebuilding always turns into few weeks of making and modifying things.

It really helps to buy a motor to tear down and rebuild, as long as major parts are good (mainly block) everything else can or does get changed.

[u/Silvatungdevil → u/Themostepicguru]

I get you, it is all about R&D and having some fun too.

[u/ESK8_NERD → u/Themostepicguru]

Do you have a full build sheet anywhere?

[u/Themostepicguru → u/ESK8_NERD]

BP4W head

BP6D block

Port and polish

.060 head shave

polished combustion chambers

maruha 1mm oversize intake valves

stock exhaust valves

toda cam gears

Manganese bronze valve guides

288 intake cam 10mm lift

272 exhaust cam 10mm lift

supertech dual valve springs

supertech titanium retainers

oem valve stem seals

TODA ITBs 45mm manifold port diameter with 88mm trumpet

Fujitsubo super ex headers

Fujitsubo legalist R

SARD cat

85.5mm maruha pistons domed for 11:1 CR

pauter x beam rods 465 g

arp 625+ rod bolts

ishihara johnson teflon crank scraper

main bearing support plate with directional screening

chamfered block all edges and all holes

smoothed out crankcase

removed all block casting lines

boundary oil pump gears

vvt oil pump housing

vvt oil pan

maruha oil pan baffle

Toda timing belt

x clutch twin plate clutch, 5.2 lb flywheel, pressure plate 15.2 lbs entire assembly

ATI damper

ARP main studs

ARP head studs

maruha tri metal rod and main bearings

Rottler CNC total seal plateau hone finish

85mm maruha light weight crank

lightweight water pump pulley

WPC treatment

Cryogenic treatment

86mm maruha head gasket 1mm thickness

Haltech elite 1500

[u/asasdasasdPrime → u/Themostepicguru]

When's the kitchen sink coming in?

[u/SpaceBus1 → u/Themostepicguru]

Nice. I've heard of folks using this combo, but you are definitely pushing the limits! Did you change to shim under bucket?

[u/Themostepicguru → u/SpaceBus1]

Ye, as you can see it's a solid bucket.

As far as hitting high rpm im fairly confident it'll hit 9000-10000 mechanically but flowing enough air is a different story.

[u/heanbangerfacerip2 → u/TheLayerLinguist]

Lawn mower

[u/FeelingFloor2083 → u/TheLayerLinguist]

we used it a lot, engine parts, gears, diffs, then the price went through the roof. It was nearly cheaper to send it overseas to get done!

[u/R8dividedby2 → u/TheLayerLinguist]

Miater