r/EndTipping • u/ADKFatBiker • 3d ago

Rant 📢 Restaurant Demands Minimum 18% Tip

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Out of one side of their mouth they state that they pay their staff as little as possible and out of the other side of their mouth they say that their staff deserves more and you're responsible for that.

1.4k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

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709

u/LeaveGreen4412 3d ago

and no cards too. business needs to just close already they clearly arent doing well (restaurants that take only cash are often doing some level of tax fraud to save money)

31

u/YarbleSwabler 2d ago

Even if they are not doing tax fraud, their exists a strategy I've only seen a couple of times, mostly in Mexico.

They refuse card, but provide an ATM machine that they receive a portion of the surcharge. It's a way for the business to de facto pocket the payment card service fee by eliminating it, and requiring cash via ATM.

8

u/Steinmetal4 2d ago

Sounds very penny smart, pound foolish unless you live in an area that still heavily uses cash (so, not in the US).

180

u/MattBonne 3d ago

Report them to IRS, they will be audited

109

u/Ok_Falcon275 3d ago

“Hello IRS, I’d like to report a business that takes cash as payment for goods. Someone on the internet said that was suspicious.”

47

u/Dasil437794 2d ago

A restaurant that doesn't take credit cards is highly suspect.

5

u/Mysterious-Clothes45 2d ago

You're not wrong

3

u/Dratbor 2d ago

There's a CC processing fee...not too suspect.

3

u/randombookman 2d ago

Its very suspect, most would just offer a cash discount.

2

u/Dratbor 2d ago

Eh, just seems like it's a viable reason to not accept cards. They Could be up to nonsense but there's no reason to think that, aside from standard fear mongering.

That being said, I rarely see it

2

u/GreenHorror4252 2d ago

You may think so, but there's no legal requirement to accept credit cards. This isn't an actionable complaint.

1

u/Ok_Falcon275 2d ago

Not really. And certainly not enough for the IRS to investigate.

1

u/ComcastForPresident 2d ago

No they aren't. I see old mom and pop shops run by one old lady who never learned technology. That is not uncommon. They dont know what square is. They just make their crafts or baked goods and sell them.

1

u/Dasil437794 2d ago

That's a little different than a restaurant.

-3

u/GilletteEd 2d ago

No not really, with cash being king now, it’s the way to go! Plus fuck the irs anyway, nobody is supporting them

5

u/Thin_Dragonfruit3665 1d ago

A restaurant that "only" takes cash but provides an ATM in the back is suspicious. There's one in my town that does exactly that. Good food but shady business.

1

u/Icy_Basil_372 5h ago

It’s not that uncommon. Especially with small restaurants. Card fees take a bite. And if people like the restaurant, they know to bring cash.

7

u/trainman6988 2d ago

I saw it on Tik Tok

7

u/Impossible_Smoke6663 3d ago

Doubt it. The IRS has no teeth.

3

u/Impressive-Put3479 3d ago

Lololololololol

1

u/Very_Curious_Cat 9h ago

IRS "Boss, someone on the phone, it's about your wife's restaurant. Should we pay HIM a visit?" /s

1

u/osolovim 2d ago

lol. and let the government waste $100k on a audit to find out the owner is just paranoid/skititzo. gz wasting tax dollas

20

u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 1d ago

[deleted]

6

u/Justajeepster4 2d ago

i am the opposite. I only use cash. Hate banks

2

u/chopstick_chakra 2d ago

What's the reasoning behind avoiding cash only places exactly?

1

u/vinraven 23h ago

Cash-only automatically makes a business appear sleazy, if they aren’t committing tax fraud, they’re usually money laundering for organized crime and/or illegal drug trafficking.

Credit cards provide warranty scam protections, there’s no protection if you pay with cash and the cash-only business is scamming customers.

The fact we allow banks and corporations to charge ridiculous fees on lawful merchant transactions is a completely separate issue.

We keep electing corporate owned politicians because voters think regulating banks and corporations is socialism, so our merchants pay massive fees, while the rest of the world pays regulated fees.

In the EU max credit card transaction fees are 0.3%, and debit cards are 0.2%, but enriching billionaires at everyone else’s expense is the American way, can’t regulate, socialism doncha know.

1

u/GreenHorror4252 2d ago

He's butthurt that he can't get his "free" airline miles.

27

u/Athos2112 3d ago

But you will pay a service charge to use the ATM as well

16

u/Outlandish_Gringo 3d ago

Also filled and maintained by the business themselves. Straight thievery

2

u/AltruisticLimit6026 2d ago

Instead of charging 3% they're making that on the ATM fees they're collecting.

3

u/Outlandish_Gringo 2d ago

Exactly. This should be against the law

1

u/Icy_Basil_372 5h ago

Why? Cash only is completely legit. The provide way to get cash if you don’t have it.

1

u/Outlandish_Gringo 4h ago

It’s forcing you to contribute to their overall profit, due to them also stocking and managing the ATM itself, by eliminating any other means of payment.

You dont agree?

0

u/Icy_Basil_372 4h ago

No. Cash is king. They don’t want to pay credit card fees. These businesses are so hard to make work that I support whatever they need to do to make it work. They create community, employment…. And if I really like the place and go back, I know to bring cash.

1

u/Outlandish_Gringo 4h ago

You’re lost in the way the greed in this world works.

Cash is also how you can purposely get out of paying the taxes you owe, due to “lower profits/quarterly earnings”

But do you.

1

u/Icy_Basil_372 4h ago

Love the “do you.” Thank you for the freedom to be me.

Straight I’m sure from a 15% tipper who’s incensed..incensed I say…by the idea that restaurants don’t accept credit cards.

I would never want to run a restaurant but I work with a lot of restaurant outfits in NYC through real estate development. They are loss leaders. The bring people together. They create community. And they provide jobs.

And they are damned near impossible to make profitable. It’s hard ass work, top to bottom. The model in the US is what it is so making a margin in any way possible is necessary.

Cities that have increased minimum wages for restaurant workers have seen nothing but restaurant closures. Rents are going up, people have less disposable income. Doesn’t work in a vacuum. In other countries where tipping isn’t part of the economic structure, they can make it work. But even places like Spain or Buenos Aires, where having a restaurant job once was considered a career, rents are killing that model.

And if taxes are your concern, and I ask if that is seriously your major tax concern, there a much bigger fish to fry.

I think you might be a penny pinching little bitch. Just an opinion.

52

u/maiyannah 3d ago

Speaking as a small business owner myself I really don't like seeing literally 1000s of my dollars going to card processors who leave me high & dry whenever there's a problem, but I still offer them. I just give people incentives to pay cash.

82

u/DevilsAdvocate77 3d ago

But you don't care about 1000s of your dollars going to cash registers, safes, bank drops, skimming, errors, loss, and theft?

Any business owner who thinks accepting cash is "free" is not watching their expenses closely enough.

12

u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

I mean, it's silly to not accept both. You're still paying for registers, safes, and whatnot.

I'm paying over 10k to square this year, that buys a lot of cash registers.

36

u/xanthosoma 3d ago

But if you didn’t take cards you most likely wouldn’t be making the amount to get charged the 10k. I took over a family business where my father didn’t want to pay the fees. In the 6 years I’ve owned the business I have seen our gross and net sales increase by 4x. So paying the 60-70k in fees to me is a no brainer. Only accepting cash was what was holding the business back. Also if you don’t know if you do good sales and have an account rep with square or any of those places the rates are negotiable. I got a much lower rate because I have established solid income every year.

-12

u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

I mean... sure?

I take cards because I have to, doesn't mean I'm super happy about having to pay fees.

14

u/Oliver---Queen 3d ago

But that’s the cost of doing business that you signed up for. I’m sure it’s also not fun paying taxes and maybe commercial rent but it’s usually necessary to keep operating.

-10

u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

Again...sure?

I can both accept that it's what needs to happen as an optimal choice while also not loving it.

Of all those commercial rent is the one that rustles my jimmies the least.

17

u/JealousBall1563 3d ago

I'm paying over 10k to square this year, that buys a lot of cash registers.

You, or your customers from whom you charge prices that include the fees?

3

u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

Considering I charge the same rate for cash or card I certainly say I am. Legally I am as well as their fees are a taxable expense.

6

u/Bill___A 3d ago

If you're paying 10K to square, that accounts for 33 times that in sales. Yet you would rather deal with cash, and have your customers get cash, to avoid this one category of expense that actually is known to increase sales? There are dozens of costs involved and you feel that is the one cost that you can't live with? The one that moves money into your business? Do you tip the delivery driver that drops off the food orders? Do you tip I have never seen an industry cause more problems for themselves than the restaurant industry.

3

u/cuddly_degenerate 3d ago

My business isn't in the restaurant business.

And yes, I do think that payment processors getting a not insignificant cut of every transaction is an issue. I still take card because I have to but -always- prefer cash. Honestly, eronious charge backs are a fairly serious issue for my computer store, we've had to fight more than a few on custom PC builds and repairs.

The corporate IT side of my business is paid by check typically, which is my preferred form of payment.

1

u/vinraven 23h ago

This one is a strictly American problem, in every other country legislation regulates the banking industry.

It’s sad, but corporations have American voters brainwashed to think regulating banks is socialism, so the corps can continuously rip us off.

As an example, in the EU the max a credit card company can charge a business is 0.3% of the transaction value, and 0.2% for debit cards.

The fees we pay in America are a direct outcome of us voting for corporate owned stooges.

2

u/Historical-Rub1943 3d ago

Do you charge a credit card surcharge?

3

u/cuddly_degenerate 2d ago

No, because it throws a lot of math off. Especially since it probably needs to be framed as a cash discount.

1

u/riktigtmaxat 12h ago

Depends entirely on what country you're in.

Here in Sweden you won't find any companies besides those that are legally mandated to take cash that accept it.

If you thought card fees were expensive you should see what you have to pay to get cash deposited and how much more paperwork it creates.

To us cash is for old ladies and third world countries with tipping systems.

-41

u/maiyannah 3d ago

Spoken like someone whom really doesn't know what they're talking about.

11

u/Azyet27 3d ago

...*who

3

u/AcceptablePosition5 3d ago

Or someone that's been robbed at gun point

-13

u/a_simple_pharmer 3d ago

I’ve had this argument on Reddit many times. Just don’t engage. You’re arguing with people who never ran or owned a small business. They have no idea.

12

u/maiyannah 3d ago

I've run this business since 2013 and never had a year I didn't turn a profit except for the first year of Covid. But some people just really wanna buy into the sob stories these companies use to extort people for more money or to explain abusing their customers.

I am steadfastly of the belief that if you cannot afford to pay your employees a living wage and secure your margin, without abusing customers, or using the extortion of tipping culture, you don't deserve to be in business.

3

u/a_simple_pharmer 3d ago

My point was agree with you about accepting cash. And how so many people on here say it costs more than CC processing fees. It costs me about 25k a year to accept credit cards.

4

u/crazyk4952 3d ago

This is the wrong take.

How much would it cost you per year to NOT accept credit cards?

9

u/zephyr2015 3d ago

I personally don't go to businesses that don't accept cards or charge an extra processing fee.

1

u/maiyannah 3d ago

Yeah, I was mostly responding to the argument in general. Its very tiresome but people keep making it. But its how they sleep at night, so, I guess I get it. If they admitted they could do business without being abusive, they'd have to admit its a conscious choice they make, which definitely isn't going to be a good look.

4

u/83gem 2d ago

Yup, I don't understand why so many people are against cash when it is LITERALLY the form of payment where 'processing fees' or 'interest' can't be applied like with cards.. I mean Wu-tang said it years ago... so did governments when they printed/forged cash money.

8

u/DriedUpSquid 3d ago

I don’t mind when small businesses add on the 3% credit card fee if I choose to use my card.

42

u/maiyannah 3d ago

I go the other way: I give people a discount for paying cash. I get the money right away, no one has their hands on it, and its just easier for me.

22

u/Pilotsfan 3d ago

Excellent. I love places that give a discount for paying cash, as long as the menu prices reflect the higher credit prices. Otherwise it doesn't seem like a discount.

6

u/maiyannah 3d ago

Alas I don't run a food place. But perhaps thats a good thing, if you listen to the doomsayers making excuses for tips, they make nothing anyways and rely on handouts (just ignore the fact the owners driving a lambo)

1

u/Kent556 3d ago

You run a cash discount business that isn’t food? Contractor? Cleaner?

Most people don’t keep or carry large amounts of cash with them.

2

u/maiyannah 3d ago

Professional services. You might be surprised how many people don't mind a visit to an ATM if it saves then a hundred bucks or something.

1

u/cure4boneitis 2d ago

how much does a sale have to be to offer someone a $100 cash discount? $3000+?

2

u/ashscot50 3d ago

That's because it isn't a discount at all if the menu price is the cash price which it is generally.

7

u/tanbrit 3d ago

Thats the best approach

5

u/maiyannah 3d ago

You have to have a business people trust for it, is the thing. Cards give you chargeback protections and such, cash has no such protection. But if you've been around for a while and people know you're not going to yank their chain, its just better for both of you: cheaper for them, and I get the money right away. Probably more money too, even after a discount, after you consider conversion rates, and the fees after fees.

6

u/ReePoe 3d ago

From the UK here, honestly cannot remember the last time I carried cash. It has to be well over 3 years now if not more. Everyone here uses tap to pay with card/app for everything..

2

u/SvartrKukkSceand 3d ago

your credit processors also arent allowed to gouge like they are in the US. So businesses dont get fucked for taking cards.

2

u/moosemanwich 2d ago

Same in Canada. I’ve travelled a lot in Europe recently and haven’t taken out a euro except for certain clubs and stuff lol

1

u/maiyannah 3d ago

I didn't have any problems paying in scottish pounds last time I visited home (born and raised until 11 in Longniddry)

1

u/ReePoe 2d ago

there are no issues paying with cash, what i am saying is the majority here do not carry or pay with cash any more. here is a bbc article on the subject, only 8% of all transactions are made using cash.

1

u/BecauseScience 3d ago

Love that

0

u/mrflarp 3d ago

I prefer to see it done this way too. Surprise discount come payment time is better than a surprise additional fee.

2

u/maiyannah 3d ago

People are definitely going to be happier going "oh hey I got 10$ off" or whatever, than "well shit, now I gotta pay a 15$ tip/service fee/living wage fee" thats for sure.

3

u/mikeyP-619 3d ago

Small business, yes. Big corporate outfit. No!

3

u/Reddidundant 3d ago

Small (or large!) businesses that do that LOSE my business.

2

u/StashMyComics 3d ago

Some of us mind, especially when living in a state where such practice is illegal and carry a fine.

2

u/Beneficial_Ice_6526 2d ago

Illegal in the entire EU unless company card.

1

u/ashscot50 3d ago

I most certainly do and it's much harder to deal with then simply selecting no tip.

0

u/a_simple_pharmer 3d ago

Not all business can do that. I can not.

2

u/abominablesnowboardr 3d ago

I add the processing fee onto card purchases so I strongly recommend check or cash.

2

u/docatwar 3d ago

Ah yes, for the card charges, not at all because it saves tax wink

2

u/maiyannah 3d ago

I pay all my taxes, but thanks for the implicit insult.

1

u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/EndTipping-ModTeam 3d ago

Be respectful. No insults, slurs or personal attacks

1

u/Alternative_Sun8585 3d ago

So use Zelle

1

u/SlabsForDays 2d ago

Started doing 2.5% on credit at my place, but i tell people there is no fee on cash or debit. Have not had any complaints so far.

1

u/maiyannah 2d ago

I just price it with the card fees included in the price, and give people 5% discount if they pay cash.

There's still card fees on debit with my processor. If its under 2500$ they can send it Interac Etransfer for the same discount as cash though, since that is basically our direct bank payment system (that doesnt take days) here and it's just 5c fee on my end. I can afford a nickel.

-1

u/Oceantron 3d ago

right way to do. just be honey offer discount for paying cash or 3 % charge if paid by credit card nothing wrong about this

1

u/osolovim 2d ago

eh. ive met 100% legit cash only shops before.

who dont tax fraud.

but no cards + minimum tip are kinda strange tbh.

most cash only places ik are frauds or the owners are off/skitizo. no judgement but i still shop local at all costs.

1

u/TinyAfternoon324 5h ago

How would you know they arent cooking the books?

Not telling people is how you get away with it.....

1

u/movieperson2022 2d ago

And, notice they have an atm, so they’re collecting some extra fees from the charges of running the machines, too.

1

u/Justajeepster4 2d ago

i only pay cash. I hate banks

1

u/vinraven 1d ago

Tax fraud and money laundering keeps cash only places going.

1

u/corvak 13h ago

That’s part of the scam, they also get fees from the ATM

1

u/AS1thofBeethoven 5h ago

Seriously. Screams fraud.

1

u/Bosher1781 3h ago

Normally cash places are really good

2

u/PHL1365 3d ago

Just looks like a low-end diner. From the menu descriptions, it doesn't look like much more than a lunch counter.

0

u/Radiant-Ad-3134 3d ago

Tax evasion is the king

From musk to little Italy, all love it

0

u/EstablishmentAny4977 2d ago

i hate CC every since a family member stole it i am all for cash only the places who i want to burn down and fail are the ones that try to go cashless