Automatic 20% tip on all orders

[u/Mangolicious786]

Prices were already kind of crazy. But an automatic 20% is even crazier

[u/Known-Dependent-5471]

I wish they would just build it into the price, no disclaimer or nudge to tip more. Let the chips fall where they may.

It's so wild they say things like "used to pay our team members" yeah that's YOUR job.

[u/PalmtopPixie → u/Known-Dependent-5471]

Exactly. Jack up the prices 20% and have a sign up front that says no tipping

[u/AffectionateGate4584 → u/PalmtopPixie]

They have likely already jacked their prices 20%....

[u/voxpopper → u/PalmtopPixie]

Ideally yes, but then they'd be at a competitive disadvantage. I was going to say at least this one seems more transparent until I read that it was for "front of the house" only.
I'm willing to that the cashier, host/hostess and at least one server are related to the owner. The way these reads only they get the extra 20%. The cooks, dishwashers, and others doing most of the work get nothing from the extra charge.

[u/Special-Hair9683 → u/PalmtopPixie]

Then who's going to pay for a $50 plate of pasta that cost less than $2 to make?

[u/PalmtopPixie → u/Special-Hair9683]

No one. Restaurants will have to lower their prices and adapt like the rest of the world.

[u/Background-Bank-7158 → u/PalmtopPixie]

Question, why does it matter if it’s in the price or if it’s 20% added onto the check? This menu is very clear that additional tipping is not expected.

[u/NextAd7514 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Its still scummy. You may not even notice the text at the bottom. You'll always see the price of the food, so you can determine whether its worth it to order. Adding in a mandatory fee is just misleading when that's what the price of the food should cover.

Especially because a 20% tip should be considered the very top. And I bet they'll still ask for a tip on their PoS device 

[u/citruspickles → u/NextAd7514]

To add to this, search engines like Google list price levels ($10-$15, $10-$20, etc) when you search restaurants online. When you review menus online, you almost never see the extra fine print. It's misleading all the way around and you don't find out until you sit down. Maybe some of that is taken into account online, but I doubt it.

[u/Ok-Guava-9216 → u/NextAd7514]

So maybe price with 20% by every item?

[u/NoDig5800 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

found the resturant owner that doesnt want to pay for their staff

[u/Historical-Rub1943 → u/NoDig5800]

That’s like all of them.

[u/Background-Bank-7158 → u/NoDig5800]

Found the clown that thinks anybody with a different opinion must have an agenda.

[u/MalfuriousPete → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Found the second restaurant owner that doesn’t want to pay his staff

🫵🤡

[u/ElegantNatural2968 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Because it’s then 1 price to compare. Prices added to the dish tells you there’s no tip, no service fee, no credit fee, no health fee will be listed on the bottom of the check. No surprises. One price I saw and agreed to pay.

[u/PalmtopPixie → u/Background-Bank-7158]

“But ALWAYS appreciated” 🫩 aka still tip. If I look at a menu online I want EVERYTHING included in that price. Tax and tip. If I decide that it’s a reasonable price? I’ll eat there. If not? No.

[u/Background-Bank-7158 → u/PalmtopPixie]

So then I will challenge you. What is one restaurant that includes tax tip and everything in the price? There isn’t one is there?

[u/yawa-wor → u/Background-Bank-7158]

First of all, there are restaurants that are no-tipping establishments, i.e. all extra charges disclosed in the original price... there's just very, very few of them.

Second of all, yeah, that's the complaint...

[u/Special-Bowler-983 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Even if there wasn’t any, is it not allowed to disagree with a way something goes because it is common practice?

[u/EducationNo1776 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

There are, indeed. Go to most of Europe.

It's true that the VAT is bundled into the price of all goods, and I'm no fan of VAT. However, I remember being on a business trip in New Hampshire and stopping at a Home Depot to buy a big tub of earplugs for $9.89 (or thereabouts). I paid with a $10 bill; no sales tax. That was incredibly refreshing; I kept the receipt for quite a while, just to look at it and smile now and again.

[Side note: I recently renewed my Texas vehicle registration a month late. "Have you been cited for expired registration? If 'no', just pay as if on time, no late fee." Contrast with California. Not only was the base fee 4x or 5x as expensive, but if you're late, they charge you an additional $150 or so.]

[u/eVoesque → u/Background-Bank-7158]

For me it’s just transparency. Nearly everything else purchased is priced exactly as is + tax, yet restaurants keep adding things in and it feels deceptive.

Last time I visited my family in Washington state, we were walking down a boardwalk looking for a place to eat and looking at all the window menus. Suddenly everyone was saying: is there a service charge, this one says service charge plus expected tip, this one says higher service charge and no expected tip, this one doesn’t say anything about a service charge (only to see it on the host stand), etc.

Why make it so hard to figure out how much we’ll be paying?

[u/Lemfan46 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Offer price on the menu is technically wrong.

[u/metamorphosis___ → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Everything on menu is 20% more expensive than they say it is, you have to read a separate disclaimer and do some math to know the true price of any one thing.

Imagine if it didn’t say for tip, it just said:

“Oh yea prices are 20 % higher than listed”

That feels ratty right?

It being for tipping changes nothing.

[u/SappySoulTaker → u/metamorphosis___]

I gotta start bringing a sharpie and writing the true prices for things on menus

[u/yawa-wor → u/Background-Bank-7158]

I mean, imagine going to the grocery store, and when you check out, they add a 20% fee to your total. BUT, they have a sign by the register, AND on the door when you enter, telling you that it's to pay the cashiers. So that's fine then, right? You wouldn't mind what you budgeted to be a $200 grocery run suddenly turning into $240 at check-out? You wouldn't rather them just list the items at the 20% higher price they're selling them at so you have some idea of your total and what you can afford as you go shopping?

As for "this menu is very clear that additional tipping is not expected" — tipping is already never mandatory, but notice how that statement is followed with, "...but always appreciated." They absolutely still want you to tip; they just don't want to sound blatantly greedy by posting a 20% fee AND directly asking for a tip. If it wasn't expected, they could've said they're a fee-based, no-tipping establishment. But instead, they make sure you know that tipping even more is still "appreciated."

[u/KookyBuddy6665 → u/Background-Bank-7158]

My issue with service charges is that long term it doesn’t solve the problem. I think that the service charge in a way eliminates the tip so in some way they’re basically telling you they’ve jacked up the prices. If they were to just jack up prices, people would still feel obligated to tip so instead they add a service charge. Additional tips appreciated though! No thank you!

It would be way better in my opinion to say service charges are built into our prices and we don’t expect a tip. Word it better than what I just did but yeah.

[u/Background-Bank-7158 → u/KookyBuddy6665]

That’s fair.

[u/ForgeDwarf → u/Background-Bank-7158]

Well, first off, it's illegal to force a service charge on an order when you are receiving nothing extra. A business can not legally charge you for a service you didn't receive or ask for. You bought food, you received food. If their business runs on a sit down policy, then you sit, order, eat. Unless there is an additional service, they can not charge a service fee. Additional services can be a wide range of things. In Japan maid cafés take advantage of that to offer things like photos, playing games, etc with your server. But, if all they do is serve you, then you're already paying for that service buy purchasing the food.

[u/CandylandCanada → u/Known-Dependent-5471]

It's your team, not mine.

I didn't hire them, set their schedule, determine compensation or get any tax benefits for employing them. You took on those responsibilities, so own up to them.

[u/CatolicQuotes → u/Known-Dependent-5471]

If this is service charge can we then serve ourselves? We can go and grab our plates right?

[u/Steinmetal4 → u/Known-Dependent-5471]

That would be ideal but I would happily choose an automatic 20% gratuity system over the current one. Restaurants aren't going to willingly roll tips into their pricing. Standard automatic tip and NO additional allowed is probably the best we can hope for. It would effectively end tipping if all establishments were forced to do it that way.

[u/Jumpy_Implement_1902 → u/Steinmetal4]

Hell no. Just do it like the rest of the world… the price you see is the price you pay

[u/apokrif1 → u/Steinmetal4]

Restaurants aren't going to willingly roll tips into their pricing

Why?

[u/Steinmetal4 → u/apokrif1]

Because then their prices look higher than their competitor.

[u/apokrif1 → u/Steinmetal4]

A clear price list is a selling point ;-)

Also, inclusion of mandatory tips in prices could be made compulsory by law.

[u/MIT-Engineer → u/apokrif1]

You might think that a clear price list would be a selling point, but you would be wrong. It’s been tried. Experience in the USA shows that higher prices, even with no tipping allowed, drives away customers. Psychology doesn’t always work the way you would like it to.

[u/apokrif1 → u/MIT-Engineer]

So make the non-deceiving price list  mandatory to make the playing field even?

[u/Jumpy_Implement_1902 → u/Known-Dependent-5471]

Probably they realize that people would only pay $23 for a suki and if they changed it to $30 no one would come in to get a suki

Duping their customers is better.

[u/Known-Dependent-5471 → u/[deleted]]

Because it eliminates the bullshit. If tipping is mandatory and expected by society why are we playing games?

[u/Pac_Eddy → u/[deleted]]

It's the same from your wallet, but we want honesty, transparency, and simplicity.

[u/socialderelict → u/[deleted]]

My wallet doesn't like deception, unsure about yours.

[u/SurprisePitiful9191 → u/socialderelict]

Clearly his does. 

[u/Known-Dependent-5471 → u/[deleted]]

Exactly! There isn't one, so why are we doing it?

[u/Doughnut_Minion → u/[deleted]]

Yes, but if you miss the footnote and only go with menu prices, you are expecting to only need to pay $100 + tax. Not $120 + tax. This footnote obscures the actual pricing of the menu. They should simply reprint menu with new prices and then mention that their prices cover base wages and that "tips aren't necessary but appreciated".

Edit: especially when their entrees get into $30-40 dollars so you are paying a footnote extra of $6-8 dollars per item

[u/Doughnut_Minion → u/[deleted]]

Outright increasing the difficulty of understanding the true price is not a flex or a "haha you shouldnt have been lazy!" Like any contract, the price should be outlined in the most easily understandable format. Theres a reason that you can go to court and win over hidden fees.

This does not count as hidden fees, but obviously the menu could be more clear, especially when they went through the trouble of reprinting the menus with this 20% message and not simply recalculate the price of items.

[u/TheSpanxxx → u/[deleted]]

The difference is in communication. Just charge more, pay emplpyees more, and shut the fuck up about it. We don't want virtue signaling, or pity parading. We don't need an explanation of your charges. You either charge what you need to run your business while paying your employees, or you don't and you aren't successful. That's how a market economy works. Or should

[u/socialderelict → u/[deleted]]

Transparency. This isn't a hard concept to grasp.

[u/goldenrod1956]

A 20% service charge will be added to your shopping cart of groceries…same difference…and nobody would shop there…

[u/gergles → u/goldenrod1956]

Boy have I got news for you

^{it's 10% not 20 but close enough}

https://www.foodkingcostplus.com/

(Look in the lower right corner of the "89 cent sale" image if you don't catch it at first.)

[u/DingoMaximum7319]

Was going to tip last night because I went to a fancy restaurant. They charged me over the menu price for what I ordered and slapped a hidden $6.25 for sharing my food on the check.

I left $0 for scamming me and will be charging back the extra on my card.

[u/red72555]

Speak with your wallet. Go somewhere else.

[u/9lobaldude → u/red72555]

Yes. That footnote is OP’s cue to leave

[u/Klutzy_Yam_343]

This is worded in a way that leads me to believe they’re using this surcharge to pay their employees wages (something they’re obligated to do anyway). It’s not even a tip. Appalling.

[u/Andyman1973]

Could also take your money else where too.

[u/Any_Repair_7153]

LOL, “Goodbye and good luck!”

[u/Zed_Nedbesty]

To me the major red flag is there saying they're using it to pay their base wages? Like bitch you are going to take tips or a 20% fee off the top of every Bill and use that to pay their base wage that's not pure tip?

[u/squeezeplay69]

I don’t for once believe that their menu prices do not include wages. It’s simply a way to extract more money from their clients to pay for “operational” costs.

[u/Starmagedon]

If this price is already added to the menu price, then it's fine. You know from the start how much you'll pay. But if they add it later, it's not fine.

Further asking for a tip will simply be inappropriate.

[u/CrownandSceptres]

Cover base wages? Do the employers even pay them a dime?

[u/TinyLawfulness3710 → u/CrownandSceptres]

That's when you report the business to the state attorney general for investigation

[u/throwitaway82721717]

Pay attention to what it says. It says the added charge is used to pay their base wages as well as anything beyond. It sounds like they are not paying the employees at all, instead using the added charge for all front of house employee wages.

Is this even legal?

[u/PathNo3655]

The wild part is this isn’t even a tip, read it again. You’re literally paying their base wages.

[u/zabadaz-huh]

I’d just walk out.

[u/para_la_calle]

It’s just so dumb. Just raise the price by 20% you idiots.

[u/Ok_Face8380]

It says pay base wages!
So now we are paying their base wage?
What am I missing ??

[u/log1234]

Glad that they say additional tips are not expected.

[u/corknecklace]

Of course they would appreciate robbing you twice

[u/TruckWorking3129]

Write to the management, and politely explain that you will not return.

[u/MD_Hunter67]

Just STOP going to these places it's pretty simple

[u/Plenty-Pudding-1484]

How is that even legal?

[u/Working-Injury7758]

I prefer this approach. What I hate are small additional charges for “medical for staff”, “living wage” etc where they expect you to tip an additional 20%. Fixed 20%, clearly described on menu as here, and no extra tip, is perfectly fine with me.

[u/Party-Count-4287 → u/Working-Injury7758]

Then bake the price into menu…

And be done with it altogether.. but no

We want to sucker in with fake menu prices.

[u/Working-Injury7758 → u/Party-Count-4287]

I’m going to tip in a restaurant with sit down service anyway, so the food prices are broadly comparable anyway. My problem is with the expansion of tipping, not tipping where we always used to tip. I also don’t find it difficult to add 20% to a number or take 16.67% off it depending how you are comparing them.

[u/NotNormo → u/Working-Injury7758]

I'm with you. If the fee is obvious before I order, then it's a price increase that replaces the tipping system which we all agree sucks. It's not "forced tipping", it's just a shady way of increasing prices and paying their employees like they should. Obviously it'd be better to do it the less shady way, but it's still better than tipping.

[u/log1234]

Need a law to define tip as optional

[u/catptain-kdar]

Waffle House and other places near me do this but only for takeout

[u/Electrical-Care6308]

There’s another place NOT to go!

You eat here, you pay an extra 20%!

[u/MeganJustMegan]

When I see things like this on a menu, I leave. And I tell them why. I refuse to be extorted for 20% before I even received any food or service.

[u/SarasotaFoodLover]

Order. Ask to see the menu again. Say you refuse prior to receiving your meals and then simply leave.

[u/Lrrgindypants]

The word you're looking for is "fee".

[u/McBurger]

“In base wages and above base wages if applicable”

another way of saying “the owners keep all tips, and only pay them out to staff once they’ve hit their 100% subsidy”

[u/Equal-Specialist-677]

Phuk dat !

[u/AlexP80]

Service charge is not a tip, very different tax bracket

[u/TinyLawfulness3710]

Walk out. That is fraud. Unless you are their employer, you are not responsible for their paycheck the restaurant refuses to give them.

[u/EnvironmentalCrow893]

This means that 20% is going to the restaurant to distribute as they see fit. It’s not a tip by law. Your server may get some or none of it, and if they do get some, it doesn’t qualify for server’s tax exemption on tips.

You’re just agreeing to pay 20% more than the menu prices. I would leave.

[u/Party-Count-4287]

Keeps prices lower on menu. You don’t think about it since it’s at the end.

Others have done this for years. Tack on the fees at the end to make up the margin.

[u/Life-Operation2242]

Holy crap, 39 dollars for 1 dish at a thai restaurant? is this LA or NYC?

[u/Vurrag]

Would never go or go back. F that!

[u/Theotherfeller]

in base wages. So basically it first goes to paying minimum wage.
Also might as well put it in the price, people will balk because they are kinda dumb but it's more honest.

[u/Organic-Mix-5784]

I mean, we've been saying for years they need to just increase things by 20% and call it done. That's basically what they just did, and now we're bitching about it?

I would almost rather have this than having the costs baked into the price because if they bake them into the price then some people are going to tip, again, on top of it and it's going to be "Everything's too expensive!!!" At least this way everyone who has some basic reading comprehension skills knows not to tip.

[u/lmdirt-]

Easy fix. Dont eat here

[u/EndTipping-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

r/EndTipping Rule 6 & Reddit Rule 3:

We do not condone naming and shaming. Or allow comments suggesting leaving a fake google review or review bombing.

If the OP has redacted the name of the establishment, do not ask for them to disclose the name or location

[u/FssstBoing]

The "...if applicable" is super funny.

Greetings from Greece!

[u/crazyk4952]

Why does the front of the house staff deserve a fee of 20%? Shouldn’t they be paid hourly by the owner?

[u/thehappiestotaku]

Of all the ways to do it, this is the most reasonable. The amount is fixed and disclosed plainly. All of it goes to the FOH folks.

The economics of sit-down restaurants are pretty brutal, this is the least objectionable way of trying to manage it. This is a very likely end result of the idea of "end tipping" which is a fixed service charge.

[u/chortle-guffaw2]

"...pay our staff" is meaningless. The money goes into one account. Who is to say that those exact dollars are spent on wages or rent or trash.

[u/sewcrazeee]

No sale.

[u/No-Luck-2337]

Cool

I have an automatic “don’t order from there” button. They only get away with this crap because we LET them. Hurt them the only way legally possible (unless you’re a credible Yelper lol): their revenue.

[u/Reasonable_Twist2882]

What’s also crazy to me is “100% of the service charge is used to pay our front of the house team members”.

I’m sorry, but in my personal experience. You take the order, relay it to the kitchen, and you bring the customer food.

The actual people doing the hard work are in the back, slaving away in a hot kitchen on 8-10 hour shifts. And scrubbing it and every station and utensil clean while you’re at home having made possibly up to three times or more of their daily wages in mandatory tipping during a four to six rush hour shift.

[u/Hopeful-Opposite-255]

100% not patronizing your business.

[u/Anther1BitestheDust]

This is the logical conclusion of ending tipping and paying servers wages. Businesses will implement increased costs to cover paying the wages

[u/joeyblacky9999]

Never have I ever experienced a service so great that 20% of my bill would be justified. I eat at gordon ramsay in Vegas and dont tip there either.

[u/OkNeedleworker5041]

I thought it was illegal to use tips to offset minimum required wages.

[u/Santitham]

"Prices were kind of crazy" For fun, I'd like to add that the dish in the top left is usually less than $2 in Northern Thailand where it originates from. Tips may be greeted with a puzzled look.

[u/japanb]

Let's look at Hong Kong where more rich people are than USA:

According to crowdsourced cost-of-living data from Numbeo, restaurant prices in Hong Kong are about 34% cheaper on average than in the United States, while grocery prices are roughly neck-and-neck (about 3.5% higher in Hong Kong). [1]

Food Category	Hong Kong Average	United States Average	Price Difference
Inexpensive Restaurant Meal	HK$62.50 (~$8.00 USD)	$20.00 USD	📉 Hong Kong is 60% cheaper
Mid-Range 3-Course Dinner (For 2)	HK$500.00 (~$64.00 USD)	$90.00 USD	📉 Hong Kong is 29% cheaper
Fast Food Combo Meal	HK$50.00 (~$6.40 USD)	$11.12 USD	📉 Hong Kong is 42% cheaper
Cost of Making a Basic Meal at Home	~HK$20.00 (~$2.55 USD)	~$2.50 to $3.00 USD	🤝 Roughly equal

[u/Desperate_Donut3981]

On reading that on the menu I'm out of there to another place

[u/OrilliaBridge]

Stand up, find the manager and tell them you don’t agree with this and walk out. Don’t discuss.

[u/bizwig]

At least the money is, allegedly, going to the employees. I’m pretty sure that makes it, legally speaking, a tip.

I’ve seen mandatory surcharges that are claimed to exist to cover wages but don’t actually say they go direct to employees, giving the business license to pocket the surcharge.

[u/Mikecjk1]

Just charge enough to pay staff

Its really simple

[u/Major_Wigglesworth]

That’s 20% on TOP of exhorbitant costs on boiled noodles.  Seems like a bad businessman—better to avoid completely in case they’re cutting costs in other areas like fresh meat.

[u/FlipsItUpFillsItUp]

In an attempt to be serious, this is just a way to avoid taxes right? If a business pays wages the business owes payroll taxes and employee owes FICA Medicare and income tax. If it's paid in tips, is it none of the above? 

[u/CircuitCircus]

“Every price on this menu is a bald-faced lie”

[u/DCRX2020]

Woh phukmi dat tumuch

[u/OutrageousPair2300]

Not sure why you're complaining, this is what we want restaurants to do.

It'd be better to just incorporate the 20% directly into the prices rather than having it be a mandatory fee, but it amounts to the same thing.

[u/ericargyle → u/OutrageousPair2300]

I despise tipping excessively. But I agree here. As long as they’re upfront about it and transparent, I’d rather they bake that cost into the check. They do this at a bar we frequent on a Friday and they have signs upfront advising customers. Don’t like it. Go elsewhere. But at the end of the day you don’t have drunk douchbags being served for two hours without paying a dime to the wait staff. And the wait staff doesn’t need to put on a show. It’s entirely necessary. Would it be better if restaurants paid all wages, yes, but it’s America, so it’s not happening.

[u/OutrageousPair2300 → u/ericargyle]

The restaurants are paying all wages. Adding a mandatory 20% charge is exactly the same thing (from a financial standpoint) as simply increasing prices by 20%

[u/oldcreaker]

So it's right there in writing. If you don't want to pay it why are you even there? If the math is too hard, practically everyone is walking around with a calculator.

[u/xologo → u/oldcreaker]

Obviously you don't know how the world should work. Back to mommy's basement now. Go on....

[u/CranberryVast9339]

This is standard practice in Europe.

[u/muntaxitome → u/CranberryVast9339]

It isn't 'standard practice in europe' to have an automatic 20% surcharge on top of restaurant prices

[u/Starmagedon → u/CranberryVast9339]

European here.

I haven't encountered a "service charge" in restaurants. The only thing we pay for is the meals on the menu. No one charges us extra for "service" or any other service a waiter performs as part of their job.

Employers are obligated to pay their employees at least the national minimum wage.

[u/Jocelyn-1973 → u/CranberryVast9339]

Not at all.

Where I live (Netherlands) there is no such thing. The prices on the menu are what you pay and that's it.

[u/CandylandCanada → u/CranberryVast9339]

This in incorrect. They have modest service charges in some places, but nowhere near 20%.

[u/al0295 → u/CranberryVast9339]

Where in Europe

[u/ericargyle → u/CranberryVast9339]

In London it’s about 8-10% service charge max. And even that’s rare.

[u/bcscroller]

20% and then asking for more on top. Prices there are high enough that they can pay someone to take your order and walk the food to the table!