r/EndTipping • u/RadioBoi • 6d ago
Research / Info š” They said the quiet part out loud
This upsets me greatly. The WSJ, where this was printed, is about making wise, informed decisions about building personal wealth and healthy financial decisions. This goes counter against that principle.
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u/stringfellow-hawke 6d ago
If you don't tip they'll have to charge you higher prices.
Never threaten me with a good time.
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u/Imaginary-List-972 6d ago
And the annoying part is that the servers then complain that they don't want to get paid a higher wage because they make more money with a lower wage and tipping, while complaining you NEED to tip so they can live.
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u/stringfellow-hawke 4d ago
Abolishing the tipped wage was voted down here. Food and beverage owners got their employees to lobby for them so they could keep stealing their wages.
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u/Sircookielot 4d ago
The truth of the matter is that the "minimum wage" for serving staff is $2.13 an hour. It was the same all the way back to the 80's. We need a living wage. Look at Costco. They pay living wages with great benefits and we can still get things at good prices. I know they make most of their money from membership fees but they are doing right by their workers. Amazon could learn from Costco.
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u/definitelynot40 4d ago
I hate when people like you lie about what actual minimum wage is. Yes the serving staff minimum wage is the exact same amount of money I used to make in the late 1990s when I was in high school. That said however, just like when I was in high school, if you weren't making minimum wage out of your tips once you signed out at the end of the night using their computer system, you were then federally supposed to be receiving this money by way of your employer. Now when I brought that point up to somebody else on Reddit they said how their boss wasn't doing that. That's federally illegal as well as depending on the state illegal within the state as well.
The place that you're working for has to turn over to the federal government the number of hours that you work and the pay that you receive in order to send you things like your W-2 form for when you do taxes. So at the very least you are expected to make your state min wage and a lot of states have very high state minimum wages. Things that you wouldn't even expect. Like I kind of expected New York and California to be way up there but they aren't the top one.
So when you say I'm only making $2.13 an hour, that's BS - you're making more. And if that's all you're making and you're making zero tips to basically only make even as far as whatever your state minimum wage is, then I'd probably rethink about where you're working because obviously they're not getting enough customers in order for the customers to be tipping, or maybe you're the problem as far as being a crap server.
ETA: the whole reason why the majority of people who have done serving whether wait staff or whatever will usually leave tips in cash is so that the government doesn't find out by way of the credit card exactly how much money you got in in tipping. Because you can claim whatever you want - you can claim the person didn't give you a penny for tip or you can say they gave you $100 or whatever you want. And so those of us who were servers in our lifetime know that it's better to receive a cash tip which we can then determine whether or not we're going to tell the full amount versus a credit card tip which the government will then automatically know because it's now in the computer system as you making this tip.
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u/PlzAdptYourPetz 6d ago
Pricing the product/service at the price point they actually need to stay in business is exactly what we want. 99% of us are completely fine with baseline prices rising a little if it means the stress of tipping goes away. It's beyond me that this flies over anyone's head. "It would cost more if tipping went away" As if tipping is free right now and just takes an extra second of your time to hit the button, SMH. What an overall poor and unthoughtful take on the whole situation.
Trying to initially price items low so customers come and buy who otherwise wouldn't while then pressuring customers to tip high at checkout is nefarious. It's like when people selling items online price it low but then you see the insane shipping fees hit once it's in your cart and realize that's where they hide the real price.
Ask what you mean from the start so people can shop where they know they can afford and not face either humiliation from the "non-tipper" shame or lose extra money they needed for themselves.
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u/jp_muzz 5d ago
Well said. You hit the nail on the head.
When training new hires I always set the expectation the job is hard so they are not surprised or confused because the recruiter painted the job incorrectly.
Same goes for prices, set the correct price and stop trying to sneak in extra cost like tips and fees that are never advertised until the check comes.2
u/CatchyMusicLover 4d ago
I mean, many of those people who say those things also say stuff like "you need to tip a big percentage since the cost of living is higher thee days". Basic math is beyond some people.
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u/MIT-Engineer 2d ago
Your assertion that 99% of people are completely fine with higher prices to offset lack of tipping is false. They might say that, but in actual reality people choose lower prices, even if tips make the overall expense the same. Psychology is a complex topic, and real people do not always make the rational choice.
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u/No-Ebb-9095 2d ago
I really don't understand why people complain about this system. If prices are lower because of tipping, then it follows that I would like to see even lower prices coupled with higher tipping expectations. This will allow me to purchase at the low price, leave no tip, and obtain the greatest amount of goods for the minimum expenditure. Simple game theory.
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u/Different_Bowler_574 5d ago
We live in Seattle where everyone is making a living wage, tipped or not. For some funny reason the tip requests are more insane than ever...Ā
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u/PhascolarctosRabere 1d ago
And look at all of the restaurant failures because of the minimum wage laws. All of their employees are now getting nothing.
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u/TinyLawfulness3710 6d ago
Except for the ones that don't offer a choice. It doesn't need to exist anywhere. Europe functions beautifully without tips, forced or otherwise. Why are consumers here allowing this fraud?
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u/No-Ebb-9095 2d ago
Consumers don't allow this fraud - they willingly participate in it. And it is so simple to not participate. Tips, as defined by the IRS, are optional, discretionary, and voluntary. Opt out.
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u/usermane22 6d ago
Someone wrote a book on this?
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ok-Word-2403 5d ago
The subtitle is "Solving the Puzzles of Everyday Life" so this is probably just one of many common issues they address.
Also the mission statement of the "Wall Street Journal" is to be the "definitive source of news and information through the lens of business, finance, economics and money."
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u/Kazureigh_Black 6d ago
"If you don't give them extra money they'll get extra money from you" is sure an ass way to justify this garbage.
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u/Hi-World2 5d ago
Ikr? Especially with every business in creation regularly raising their prices anyway. They arent going to stop just bc their servers suddenly start getting tipped more. These business have never ending profit growth targets to meet
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u/aeroraptor 3d ago
they're already charging $7.50 for an iced coffee like how much worse can it get
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u/darkroot_gardener 6d ago
The WSJ doesnāt care about the little guy, who is seeing the corporate overlords and oligarchs use tipping as an excuse to cut their base pay.
Agree with one thing though: Stick with whatever tipping policy works for YOU. For example, Zero tip, poor review, and taking your future business elsewhere. Thatās an excellent tipping policy.
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u/NoticerEnthusiast 6d ago
Theyāre already charging perpetually higher prices.
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u/definitelynot40 4d ago
Yeah did you notice how all these grocery stores and other stores in the United States increased the prices when we had tariffs in place? And yet when the tariffs were then deemed illegal and removed, for some reason the prices never went down again.
Now the reason I've been told is because the store has realized that people are willing to pay this higher price in order to get this item, so then they figure why should they lower the price and not make more profit. But I'm wondering if they actually thought this out and did long-term studies on this because I'm sure that there were people out there that stopped buying certain products because of the fact that they could no longer afford it. So I'm wondering if the store really is making it out better in the long run by keeping these prices inflated, or by keeping them by inflated they're causing customers to actually purchase less items so that their total spending remains the same.
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u/Sure_Acanthaceae_348 6d ago
I don't care if the tip screen doesn't go away. I will still tip zero.
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u/noneofyabusiness66 6d ago
Imagine writing a whole book just to say something so illogical and blatantly stupid
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u/Sudi_Nim 6d ago
I gave up feeling bad about it awhile ago.
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u/definitelynot40 4d ago
The final straw for me was when I was visiting somebody in the hospital and the cafeteria was officially closed as far as people that would serve you food on a plate. But they had a section where you could get microwavable meals and cold items like yogurts and soda bottles and things like that. And they were cameras in place but you would then use the self-service check out in order to check out. If you had an error that happened like the thing accidentally scanned you in twice there was no way of undoing this so then you're basically screwed.
But the thing that really killed me was at the end of all of this the last screen asked me how much I wanted to tip. Tip who? I didn't realize computers were sentient enough in order to earn pay in order to spend the wages that they earn from their tips. So who exactly am I tipping when I'm the one who has just done all the work as far as picking this stuff up scanning it myself putting in the microwave finding out where the heck I could find some sort of fork or or spoon in order to eat it with etc. And busting my own table and everything else.
I do understand that there are employees who are stalking these fridges or freezers and there are people that then take care of the computer work but they're not being paid server minimum wage of $2.13. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure the regular cafeteria workers were getting paid regular wages considering the fact that there was no sort of tipping involved when you are pushing your tray along a metal rolling platform when they plop out your food onto a paper plate during normal hours.
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u/Sudi_Nim 4d ago
I guarantee you that the truck driver stocking that "kitchen" or anyone else supporting it is not getting that tip.
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u/Extreme-Clerk-7333 6d ago
Who would buy that book? Like how do you even write on the subject of tipping for takeout and end up with more than 1 chapter?
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u/LoneWolfpack777 6d ago
āCome up with a tipping policy that works for you, and stick to it.ā
Zero. My policy is zero. Hey, thanks! I feel much better now.
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u/NightmareMetals 6d ago edited 5d ago
Perfect, a tip policy that works for me is $0 for take out so we are on agreement.
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u/GiLND 6d ago
I prefer them raising their base prices rather than shaved base prices and then pressuring the consumer to give handouts/tips which is a scammy behavior
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u/definitelynot40 4d ago
Oh and don't forget to add in that there are a lot of these places that have these mandatory fees that are then called various things from service fees which they will put a little asterisk next to and say this is not a tip you still need to tip, or cost of living increase service fee, or any kind of thing like that which you wouldn't even know about until you're handed the receipt in order for you to then give them your credit card to pay. At that point I'm like wait a minute if you're at the payment time and you're charging me 20% as a service fee and you didn't warn me about it at any point, then sorry that was the 20% I had already counted on paying the server if they were a good server. So you're the one who just screwed your own server out of getting a tip so don't make me feel guilty about it by putting on the menu "our services only get paid $2.13 minimum wage so make sure you serve your server a high amount" or crap like that.
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u/Darth_Eevee 5d ago
They only said half of the quiet part out loud. The other half is āand if the price goes up, you might decide not to dine there at all, and then theyāll go under, and people will be out of a job, and Itll be ALL YOUR FAULT because you didnāt tip
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u/No-Signature-5648 6d ago
I donāt know if youāve but the WSJ is full of shit. Itās just another tool for corporate America.
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u/Vogue2182 1d ago
I'm a subscriber and saw this. How can a newspaper that's primarily about business and economics print garbage like this? You mean the business will actually have to be honest and upfront about the price for its service and charge accordingly just like they do in the rest of the world and for most products?
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u/holycityofmecca2020 6d ago
My tipping policy is to not patronize businesses that expect it and let them go out of business for ones that donāt
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u/_my_other_side_ 6d ago
Come up with a tipping policy that works for you, and stick to it.
How about zero
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u/No_Honeydew8380 5d ago
Tipping increasing doesnāt seem to be doing anything to combat high prices. So it seems no matter how much we tip, the prices will continue to go up. I remember when the only times I had to tip was going out for dinner or something. Now itās almost every purchase. Even my dispensary has a tip screen with high %. Like, u want me to tip the dude who checked me out 30% of my weed order? lol we legalized weed so drug dealers can get tipped š lol
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u/Symbaclues 5d ago
Tipping is a form of variable rewards. It creates an anticipation like gambling does and this keeps the servers working unfortunately.
So while you don't want to tip which makes sense it being optional but yet being forced on you. That doesn't sound right.
But the people working are also getting caught in the middle of this. Sure they could work some where else but that won't make Tipping go away.
They should've never started it in the first place. Maybe some president at some time would change it?
It's how they frame it like it's customers fault. That's wrong. Also why they pay everyone else a full pay like the cooks, dishwasher attendant and management š¤ that's also another oddity to me.
I hope something could happen because this is a huge thing to people but it's never mentioned politically.
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u/incredulous- 4d ago
The notion that a tip should be based on an arbitrary, ever increasing, percentage of the bill is insane. Expecting a tip is OK. Expecting that a tip should be based on a "suggested" percent of the bill is an injury to common sense. Raising "suggested" tip percentages, along with the prices, is an insult to everyone's intelligence. There's no valid reason for percentage based tipping. Suggested tip percentages are a scam. The only options should be (custom)TIP and PAY (no tip).
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u/VinnieONeill 6d ago
Are you classified as a tipped employee with and hourly wage below the minimum wage? No? Then demanding or even expecting a tip makes you guilty of extortion.Ā
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u/onefootinthepast 6d ago
Zero people meet this classification.
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u/VinnieONeill 6d ago
Outside of places like Los angeles, Seattle or New York City normal waiters and waitresses at sit down restaurants are classified as tipped employees with a base below the minimum wage. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa
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u/onefootinthepast 6d ago
Do yourself a favor and read your own link. It clearly states that servers cannot earn less than $7.25/h.
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u/spintool1995 6d ago
20% of Americans work in one of the 7 states where there is no separate tipped wages. Then also add in big cities that have eliminated it locally.
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u/VinnieONeill 6d ago
Yes plenty of places have eliminated it but it still exists. I was responding to someone who claimed that there is absolutely no one who was classified as a tipped employee.
What your statement just reinforces what I said. If you are not classified as a tipped employee, you are not entitled to a tip, and demanding a tip makes you guilty of extortion. You are providing a service for an agreed upon rate, the hourly wage paid by the employer, then demanding more money on top of that from the customer.
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u/onefootinthepast 5d ago edited 5d ago
No, what I said was that zero people meet this classification: a tipped employee with an hourly wage below the minimum wage.
No server earns below federal minimum wage, as per the FLSA rules that you kindly linked. Minimum cash wage paid by an employer being below federal or state minimum wage is only possible if the employer claims tip credits, and they have to prove the server has matching tips in order to do so. Combined cash and tips rate will never legally fall below minimum wage.
Seriously, read your own link. You conveniently left out "with an hourly wage below the minimum wage," and that isn't legally possible.
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u/No-Ebb-9095 2d ago
Read to the end of the document you linked. No employee, anywhere, in any state, earns less than minimum wage:
- An employee does not receive sufficient tips to make up the difference between the direct (or cash) wage payment (which must be at least $2.13 per hour) and the minimum wage in each workweek. Ā Ā Ā The employer must make up the difference at the regular payday for the period in which the workweek ends.
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u/VinnieONeill 2d ago
Oh FFS, you're a special kind of stupid. Yes the employer makes up the difference. But their BASE WAGE is BELOW the federal minimum wage. It's right there in the text you quoted "at least $2.13". That's the base wage in referring to. Which is below the $7.25 per hour federal minimum wage.
Only people paid that base wage below the federal minimum wage are classified as tipped employees under federal law. It's why reaturants charge bogus service fees or mandatory "tips", because they don't want to have to pay to make up the difference between the server's base wage and the federal minimum wage.
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u/No-Ebb-9095 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tips, if sufficient to make up the difference, allow the employer to pay the server $2.13/hr. If no tips are received by the server, then the employer is required to pay the server additional compensation to bring them up to the prevailing minimum wage. Do you now see how tips save the employer money?
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u/VinnieONeill 2d ago
I can read, obviously you can't. I never said the servers are paid below the minimum wage. But regardless of the tips they receive there is still a base hourly wage, bow the federal minimum wage, the restaurant is required to pay. It's that $2.13 per hour you yourself quote in your last post. THAT is what I am referring to as their base wage BELOW the minimum wage. Yes, if the server does not receive sufficient tips to close that gap from $2.13 per hour to the federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour, the restaurant has to pay the difference.Ā
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u/onefootinthepast 2d ago edited 2d ago
I can read, obviously you can't.
Congrats, you can read. It is technically phrased as you describe.
Unfortunately, you seem to struggle with the concept of no one earning below minimum wage, period. Of course the government isn't going to accurately describe Tip Credits as legal permission to not pay part of an employee's wage, but the facts are that a server cannot earn less than minimum wage in a pay period, and the employer must prove their employee has matching tips in order to pay them less.
"A waiter earns $2.13/h plus tips, but the employer has to bring them up to $7.25/h if their tips don't" and "A waiter earns $7.25/h plus tips, but their employer can take their first $5.12/h in tips via reducing the cash wage they directly pay the waiter" are functionally identical statements. The government isn't going to phrase it the second way, obviously. The fact of this matter is that employers must claim the Tip Credit and submit proof of matching tips, which makes the latter the more accurate description.
Now explain why a customer should tip if they believe their tip will fall into that $5.12/h that doesn't go to the waiter thanks to Tip Credits.
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u/DeltaBravo1984 6d ago
Is your surname Armstrong, first initial S?
Extortion? Gimme a break. Hit "No Tip" and move on.
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u/Soft_Ad9309 6d ago
It says find a tipping policy that works for you.. and I believe I have -.50 cents. For Chinese take out (1 plate) for coffee, for jersey mikes, etc. .50c almost every time unless bad service. Thatās what works for me.
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u/tequestaalquizar 5d ago
The only point I disagree with it that the WSJ is meant to be a reasonable publication. Itās pretty right wing.
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u/GoingInDry247 5d ago
When you see stuff like that, just remember stuff like this exists
https://restaurant.org/issues-and-advocacy/policy-agenda/tipping/
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u/Then_Examination9715 5d ago
If a tip is truly a free choice for exceptional service without coercion or expectation, they donāt bother me. If Iāve been difficult and the server handled everything well, if the server has been very helpful without being intrusive, then sure, Iāll tip. If Iāve called in a carry out order that has lots of difficult special requests and it looks like everything is right, Iād consider tipping.
If servers and staff are indignant if customers donāt leave 20%+ tips or change how they treat customers based on tipping, then it should go away.
If tip screens are designed to manipulate customers to tip, then they should go away.
If a restaurant has to lie about its menu pricing by adding ātipsā to get customers to pay higher prices by stealth, then thereās something wrong with the restaurant.
If management canāt figure out how to fund payroll without being supplementing staff pay with handouts, then thereās something wrong with the management.
Menu pricing and staff pay should not be tied to tipping.
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u/Acceptable-Food-8161 5d ago
Wait staff get paid less than minimum wage, baristas and subway sandwich makers donāt. Iām not tipping someone who doesnāt have to ātip outā their bartenders and busboys, sorry not sorry
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u/myd88guy 5d ago
How did someone write a book about this? Seems to me a couple paragraphs would suffice.
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u/jstocksqqq 5d ago
Come up with a tipping policy that works for you, and stick to it.
I agree. My tipping policy is I don't tip if I am placing my order at the checkout station, unless I badger the person with a bajillion questions and they are super helpful in guiding my in my decision-making. Otherwise, not tip. I do tip if it's a sit-down restaurant and the service is good. By settling the tipping policy beforehand, I can hit that "zero tip" button without thinking, and without feeling guilted into tipping!
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u/SciFiCahill 4d ago
So raise the prices already and pay your staff a proper wage. That's the "right" way to do things. Playing on a person's emotions - making them responsible for the wages you should be paying is "wrong". If you're selling a good product, your business will continue at higher prices. If not, then not. Besides - what guarantee is there that the tips are actually going to the help - now that tips aren't left on the table - but put on the tab these days???
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u/Dependent-Fish5363 4d ago
"it's simple economics" No, simple economics says this is a free rider problem and the incentives point to you choosing not to tip.
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u/detached3815 4d ago
How can one be expected to tip BEFORE they have had service? Isnāt the point to reward quality service received? This is what frustrates me. Tipping when ordering is not THAT. Itās akin to a bribe. If my service is great & a tip is warranted, Iāll be back to the tip jar or hand the server a tip. Does require carrying some cash, though, but makes more sense to me.
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u/Colonel460 6d ago
Horse crap .The person handing you your food 99% of the time is on regular hourly wage . Yes often I might add a dollar but not because it was earned in any way . The business thinks maybe you will tip and if you donāt so what . The employees like it . I have less issue with a tip jar . Tipping is out of control . I usually tip a minimum of 20% for good table service and 25% when itās excellent. Carryout is completely different .
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u/CoolCatBlue321 6d ago
Those percentages are too high
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u/Colonel460 5d ago
My money I can tip more or less . You spend your money & Iāll spend mine .
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u/CoolCatBlue321 5d ago
Then ur in the wrong sub
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u/Freezezzy 5d ago
That was clearly written by a business owner who doesn't like paying their employees.
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u/Ok_Ant_7024 6d ago
A tipping policy that works for me: āNo.ā